Best CM theater/game to start with?

[Genosse]

Hello all, I am looking to get my first Combat Mission pack for Christmas. I was curious as to what everyone thought the better theater to start with or else just better quality set of games would be - Normandy+Commonwealth+Market Garden or Italy+Gustav? I have tried and enjoyed the demos for both. Thanks, and I'll throw this in the Italy section as well to filter out France bias

[Doug Williams]

Whichever one interests you most. CMFI has a lot of mountainous terrain while CMBN has a lot of maps with bocage.

The "big bundle" (CMBN+2.0+CW+MG) is a good deal, and I would probably go for that if I were just starting out.

[MOS:96B2P]

I have both CMFI and CMBN with the updates / expansions. They are both good tactical simulations. CMBN has one more expansion than CMFI right now. If I had to choose I would probably go with CMBN.

The solution for you may be to get CMBN for Christmas and then get CMFI for New Year’s, East Front for Valentine’s Day (If you have V day where you are from) and then Black Sea to celebrate the first day of spring. Of course if you follow the above course of action and are married you may end up celebrating the first day of summer with a divorce.

[Genosse]

The solution for you may be to get CMBN for Christmas and then get CMFI for New Year’s, East Front for Valentine’s Day (If you have V day where you are from) and then Black Sea to celebrate the first day of spring. Of course if you follow the above course of action and are married you may end up celebrating the first day of summer with a divorce.

Haha! I love it MOS. Point of clarification, are fallschirmjaeger only in Gustav Line or do they make appearances in Normandy and Market Garden? Thank you all for your input.

[MOS:96B2P]

Yes, fallschirmjaeger are in Normandy and Market Garden. Some scenarios have them. They are also in quick battles, where you are allowed to pick your own forces. Fallschirmjaeger units are an option under German Service: Luftwaffe, Combat Force: Airborne Infantry.

[Genosse]

Thanks. A couple other newcomer questions about the community:

Does anyone know if the discount packages just offered for the BN series are a Christmas special or will they be sticking around permanently? That could influence my decision on BN vs FI.

I've seen the Christmas teaser about an East Front game, and I've seen forum posts by fans indicating that Black Sea will be an expansion module, but I haven't seen an official announcement of where the series is going. Can someone direct me to the relevant thread/news post from the Battlefront people?

Thank you.

[SlowMotion]

Where the series is going, take a look:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104854

[John Kettler]

Genosse and MOS:96B2P,

Welcome aboard! No extra charge if you've already been greeted.

Doug Williams makes an excellent point about state of the two games and the CMBN Big Bundle. If you have the moolah, the CMBN Big Bundle is, to my mind, the better economic value and the richer gaming experience. Simply put, there are more gaming possibilities than for CMFI+GL Bundle.

Contrariwise, CMFI+GL offer a different kind of gaming, starting with cool camouflage for the Allies, not just the Axis. To me, OD is boring! Then, on the CMFI end (pre GL), you have the Sherman as a generally fearsome beast, with only a few true enemy rivals and those, scarce. The Americans are also campaigning halftrack based assault guns and tank destroyers, sometimes in conjunction with Shermans. You're therefore looking at a somewhat awkward transitional period. In that mix are towed 3-inch ATGs and the relatively uncommon still M10s. There are units and gear in CMFI, and particularly GL, which simply aren't to be had in the CMBN side. Inter alia, these include the Ferdinand and the valley commanding Panther turret! Am not going to try to list the units, AFVs and other gear (see the product descriptions), but there are these guys called Italians, complete with what I'll kindly call slightly outdated AFVs and strange weapons. Which can still kill you.

The German go to tank, for the baseline CMFI, is a Panzer III, not the much more potent Panzer IV/F2 AKA Panzer IV/G. By the time CMBN rolls around, the Panzer III is effectively nonexistent and the baseline tank is a nasty, but somewhat brittle, Panzer IV/H.

But what really separate the two games are terrain and associated fields of fire. Typically, the engagement ranges in Italy are longer, which makes the superior optics of the Germans a real factor in what goes on and why. But that is the direct result of the terrain, which isn't merely more open than CMBN Land, but is vertical as well as horizontal. As Bil learned in the GL Beta AAR, that poses unique challenges in handling both men and vehicles. Vineyards are a major hindrance to AFVs, let alone wheeled traffic, and narrow roads, often in steep cuts, create exactly the sorts of situations which made Italy an attacker's nightmare. A single well sited ATG or AFV can jam up a major advance. And does.

Thus, you're faced not comparing an apple with a banana, but more like a kumquat and a jackfruit. They're both fruit, but what a difference!

Just so you know, I do have the all-up CMBN, but don't have a lot of experience with even the core game. I don't own CMFI, but I've been deep in the Forum since it began, making numerous posts on various pertinent topics.

I hope this is of help to you in making an important, and fairly expensive, game purchase decision. Ultimately, I think it comes down to personal interest, where you wish to be in terms of the WW II arms race and in what terrain you wish to fight.

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

Sigh. Kettler is right.

[John Kettler]

c3k,

May I have that for sig material?! Won't make a blue spot on Michael Emrys's near monopoly on rightness, but one exception disproves the rule, right?

Regards,

John Kettler

[Freyberg]

I love them all - I'm so addicted I even bought the Shock Force bundle - but if I had been obliged to pick only one, I would have picked CMFI. It has New Zealanders, which is super for a Kiwi, but it also covers a wider range of the war - starting in 1943 - with a wider range of force types. Vehicles and infantry in 1943 have some quite interesting limitations - whether your tanks have radios is a toss-up, squad automatic weapons are noticeably fewer, and infantry AT weapons are gold! But it goes all the way to mid 1944, so you get to play the later war too.

It includes Winter, and it has Italians, who are an interesting army with a lot of hardware typical of the early part of the war (if the early war interests you).

There are fewer maps and scenarios, but some of the best scenarios I've fought have been CMFI, and the maps are very nicely done - although the AI plans on the Holland QB maps are a little better, to be honest. The CMBN maps are great too, but the Holland ones are extremely flat (surprise surprise) and the Normandy ones are frequently dominated by bocage (ditto), so I find the Italian ones more interesting and varied (though that's partly because I still haven't learnt how to win in bocage). There's everything from pleasant countryside to ugly rugged hills.

CMBN is amazing, but CMFI is my slight favourite.

[Genosse]

John, thank you for the very nice welcome, I appreciate it. Merry Christmas to everyone and thanks for your input. I went with the full CMBN series - I thought I would take advantage of getting a gift and ask for the more expensive pack! I am really enjoying the game, I will be looking to get FI+GL soon because the flavor of that era and theater do appeal to me.

I'm having some minor graphical issues, like weird shadows abruptly fading in and out, and a couple other things that caused some doubt that the 2.0 engine upgrade took effect, although the game menu says 2.12 - I need to go back and look at the demo for reference. I have been so wrapped up in playing that I haven't done anything about it, but I would like to get some experts to weigh in and hopefully find a solution. Is that type of post acceptable to put in the tech problems forum?

Once again thanks for welcoming me, I am excited to participate in what looks like a very strong community and to learn the ropes of this great platform.

- Matt

[Vanir Ausf B]

Is that type of post acceptable to put in the tech problems forum?

It would be.

One common mistake people make is forgetting to apply the 1.11 patch before the 2.0 upgrade.

[Genosse]

Vanir - the 'full enchilada' CMBN bundle comes with specific instructions on the order to install everything, then you activate it all at once. 1.11 gets in there before 2.0, so hopefully that's not it. I'll post some details and maybe some screens and we will see.