Doug Williams Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This thread has gone the way most threads like this often go on these forums. (1) OP observes a game behavior that doesn't seem quite right to him. (2) Various other posters try to explain that the behavior is, in fact, reflective of real life on the WW2 battlefield by making up anecdotes that "prove" that such behavior was realistic. (3) Even more posters join in, telling jokes and funny stories. (4) Someone does a test and proves that the OP's observation actually has some merit. (5) Stunned silence, then "BFC Fix or do somefink"! :-) Thanks for the testing VAB. Sounds like much of the problem is related to the "invisible dust" you discovered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenpeace Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 I just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone from BFC is looking into this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 So the only remaining issue is the invisible LOS-blocking dust clouds. I don't know how difficult it would be to do something about them, but it would be nice to see that fixed since it does make a significant tactical difference in these types of engagements. Vanir, can you clarify whether the dust is also preventing "?" contacts, or only positive ID contacts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I did not keep track of "?" contacts (or whatever they are called in CMx2), but they were affected as well. In the case of large caliber guns such as Pak 40 the dust is so thick after about a turn of firing that it will completely block LOS for as long as it continues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I did not keep track of "?" contacts (or whatever they are called in CMx2), but they were affected as well. In the case of large caliber guns such as Pak 40 the dust is so thick after about a turn of firing that it will completely block LOS for as long as it continues. Seems fairly important. It would be perfectly logical for obscuring dust to make it harder to get a positive ID as long as the same conditions also made it more likely to a get a suspected contact at the location. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Yes. I've done some reading and I think this is a consequence of a change made back in the CMSF days, v 1.20 perhaps. Prior to that, dust was apparently not subject to any spotting checks at all and was just always visible to everyone. That was rightly deemed unacceptable so the spotting of dust was then tied to the spotting of the unit that made it, which has it's own set of issues. Ideally dust would be subject to spotting on it's own, but I wonder if the engine is capable of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenpeace Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm still waiting for someone from battlefront to comment. I'd really appreciate at least a "we have looked at this and do/don't see a problem". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenpeace Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I will keep bumping. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I recall Shilka in CMSF could scour the optics off an Abrams in no time flat. .50 cal quad on M16 has much the same effect in this game. You may not find your tank brewed-up by incoming AA gun fire but you can be made combat ineffective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Playing MG Boldness Be My Brother against another player. One of my tanks have one of those moments "WTF ! LOS / LOF". This time it's me the luky guy with LOS / LOF. The wall finally collapses. Dust.My TC continue with the red line.No charging proces. Just few seconds to dust settle down and fire over the Flak position. https://vimeo.com/87391693 The Flak fires my tank first, through the dust cloud. It suprees my tank,(I continue with the red fire line, but it doesn't return fire) and...The bullets ricocheting kill my GI arround! Niiiiiiice I made a video too. I have the impression that if you think a strategy to defeat your opponent you get punished. Maybe those Flak weapons are too powerful... When thinks like this happens, they make me hate the game... Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Maybe those Flak weapons are too powerful... When thinks like this happens, they make me hate the game... Come one man - you captured an awesome game moment there. Don't be discouraged that your guys were on the receiving end of the hail storm it was cool. Think how that Stuart will look with hit decals added to the game. Like I always say to my kids if you can't have fun when you are loosing, then the game is not for you. So embrace the mayhem and figure out a way to get play back. Got any mortars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Nice video Venici. I've got to disagree with you about the 37mm flak. Its shells bounced off your Cromwell's armour but penetrated the Stuart which in my opinion is historically accurate - the 37mm flak was deisgned to penetrate light armour after all. As for identifying a couple of tanks in the woods - well you were pounding a wall 50 yards in front of the flak, which is hardly inconspicuous activity! Hope the encounter doesn't put you off the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi Odin, I'm not saying it's not historically accurate. I'm saying I spotted the Flak 37 first. You say you didn't spot me until the wall got destroyed. I put with my tank a fire order on your Flak 37. When the wall falls, I'll be the first to fire (red line order fire) theoretically The rest of the tanks and infantry will give fire support. Ok,so I spotted first, I have a red line order (target location confirmed), I have infantry and other tanks support to fire at... And....Voilà ! The Flak fire first through the smoke cloud (with no fire order), destroy my tank, destroy a second light tank, and the bouncing shells kills my infantry around... OOOOOOUUUU yeah I demand help. I would like to know if I planned something wrong. If I forgot to do something or If I could do it better. I'm relatively new player. I have no military instruction. I just love (and sometimes hate) this game. I read the forum and I'm learning a lot, but when things like this happens I'll know why, to not do again the same mistake. Thanks and regards! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I demand help. Don't like the sound of that but lets caulk it as unintentional I would like to know if I planned something wrong. If I forgot to do something or If I could do it better. I'm relatively new player. I have no military instruction. I just love (and sometimes hate) this game. I read the forum and I'm learning a lot, but when things like this happens I'll know why, to not do again the same mistake. It is difficult to know for sure without seeing the wider context but it looks to me like the 37mm auto cannon has lots of targets to choose from - which is not good for you. What *you* want to happen is that a small unit (scouts or a single team from a squad) from your side gets hit first while the bulk of your force is back a bit. Then you can plan a way to deal with the threat. At that point you have suffered only a small number of casualties and your other forces can still maneuver. For dealing AT or AA guns the number one choice is a mortar. Slow move an HQ to a place that is as far as you can be to call it in or move a mortar team up and target the area directly. At this point you do not need to keep the gun spotted. You know where it is. Maneuver some of your other forces closer but not where they can be targeted. Once the rounds start coming in start moving closer from two directions so when the mortar rounds are done you can hit or assault the gun from two directions. Of course if your enemy is worth his salt you will encounter other resistance as you do this but deal with it as it comes bringing a tank gun to bear against any newly encountered resistance. Remember to work out how to bring more fire power against the enemy position than it has. Without a mortar or other artillery it is much harder but still possible. Can you blind the gun with smoke? If you can put some smoke in front of the gun from a tank then you can begin Maneuvering your other forces to attack the gun from two directions as above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Don't like the sound of that but lets caulk it as unintentional First of all,sorry. English is not my native language. May I ask for help, please? How a red fire order over a confirmed target, could be worst than a not fire order at all? I'm confused... Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 First of all,sorry. English is not my native language. May I ask for help, please? Sure, that's what I figured. How a red fire order over a confirmed target, could be worst than a not fire order at all? I'm confused... I am not sure. Units don't fire at what you order them to if they become suppressed due to incoming fire or if smoke obscures their ability to see the target. The Tac AI actually does a pretty good job of picking its own targets so some times that works out better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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