Guest Big Time Software Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Well, it is just about 7am here and we have completed Day One of Vehicle days (well, nights really, as we started at 11pm ). We made really good progress and will probably do up another batch Sunday. None of these models are "finalized", meaning they need tweaks and texture fixes, but here is what just went in: M8 AC M10 TD The following Shermans M4A3 (76) M4A3 (76) HVSS M4 (105) M4A3 (105) M4A3 (105) Hummel Jagdtiger Don't expect screenshots any time soon Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Hi Steve I assume the Strategic AI has been finished? Rough version I guess Have you played against it? What's it like? CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Steve, (or anyone else that knows, seeing he probably only been in bed for an hour or so ) what is the M4A3 (76) HVSS? Just curios cause its a new one on me, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Just off the top of my head isn't it the Sherman with the water protection around its shell compartment to lessen the likelihood of brewing up. Remember the AT gun article I wrote? Well, of the Shermans there which were hit by 88s all but one brewed up. They weren't HVSS models. The HVSS model was less likely to brew up and kill all or most of its crew. I read somewhere that it almost doubled crew survival and the amount of time it took a badly hit tank to brew up. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 BTS, Great to see that progress is being made. Keep up the great work. Mike D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 The M4A3 76(W) HVSS is actually the "Easy Eight" sherman version that was used in Korea. The HVSS stands for "horizontal volute spring system" or something like that. It was and improved suspension system that reduced ground pressure and improved ride characteristics. This improved mobility and helped in the bogging problem with shermans. Also the 76mm gun also got a muzzle brake which increased muzzle velocity by a little and reduced recoil by alot. The (W) designation means wet ammo storage and was extremely effective in keeping the sherman from brewing up. Many later sherman were equipped with the wet ammo storage and it saved many tankers lives. On a side note: many of the M4A3 76(W) HVSS were converted to the "expedient jumbo" versions. These tanks had 2-3 inches of extra armor welded to the front glacias plate and also had extra armor attatched to the turret sides. In closing C. Abrams commanded one of these in the later part of the war. dano6 [This message has been edited by dano6 (edited 09-10-99).] [This message has been edited by dano6 (edited 09-10-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 HVSS stands for Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension. This suspension type replaced the vertical volute spring type and was used in later models of the M4 tank. However, as all M4A3s armed with the 76mm gun (Sherman IVA in UK service) were fitted with wet stowage, it is true to say that a M4A3 (76) HVSS was less likely to brew up. No thanks to the suspension though Mattias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Note: The "W" in M4A3(76)W indicates the wet ammo stowage that retards fires. Later versions of this tank had HVSS, early ones did not. CM has both types. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>On a side note: many of the M4A3 76(W) HVSS were converted to the "expedient jumbo" versions. These tanks had 2-3 inches of extra armor welded to the front glacias plate and also had extra armor attatched to the turret sides.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm familiar with the glacis upgrade (and CM has that too) but I've been unable to find photos or descriptions of the extra armor attached to the turret sides. How thick was it? Got a reference? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 I've got a book with a picture of the "expedient jumbo" somewhere. If memory serves correctly, it looks as if it is a 1-2 inch thick plate was bolted to each side of the turret next to the gun mantlet. I will get the reference for you tonight. dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 10, 1999 Share Posted September 10, 1999 Charles, The pics of the modified Sherman that was knocked out in the Battle of the Bulge I sent you awhile back showed the adhoc field modifications with the welded on turret side armor plates as well as the front glacis plates. The tank is from the 4th armoured division and while the sign on it calls it an M4, it also goes on to state that it had a 76mm gun. I lost some stuff I had on my computer here recently and the jpg's I had of these got nuked, otherwise I'd post them here or email them back to you. In any event, looking at the photos I have here (courtesy of Mr. George E. Bush) there were two plates each, on either side of the turret (4 total, although the one's on the left turret side are no longer there, but you can see the weld lines were they had been attached). They were definitely thinner than the one's on the tanks front hull which looked to be about 2 to 2.5 inches thick. I'd say the one's on the turret were about 1" thick or slightly more, maybe 1.5" thick max. They only cover about 80% of the exposed side of the turret and are roughly located mid way top-to-bottom on the turret side. Also, if one were looking down at the tanks turret from above with the main gun at 12:00, the 2 plates on each side covered the side of the turret from roughly the gun mantle around to about 3 o'clock on the right side and 9 o'clock on the left side. The left rear, right rear, and rear of the turret didn't show such plates, or any evidence that any had ever been welded on either. I still have the actual photos so I'll try to find the photo's this weekend and scan them back in and post them here if you want. FWIW the photos also show that these mod's did do some good since it's obvious that this tank was in a nasty battle when it met its doom. There are 4 very deep gouges in the thicker plates on the front hull which look to have been caused by a 75mm or larger shell impact (my guess here). It's also evident that either a separate round, or a ricochet from one of the other four, took a chunk out of the lower portion of the main gun barrel which obviosly ended it's combat effectiveness right then and there. The apparent knock-out shot though was to the turret. It appears that just above where the extra side armour was welded on the left side at about 3 o'clock or so and where the turret side wraps around to meet the top of the turret that an AP shell penetrated the turret. Most likely one or more persons in the turret were killed. The tank apparently didn't "brew-up", however, since there is no evidence of fire, black char marks, etc. Hope this helps. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester A fools wisdom knows no bounds other than the infinite space between his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 11, 1999 Share Posted September 11, 1999 Mike D. I would be very interested in the source of these photos of this knocked out sherman and any others out there. If you can, could you please post the source, I know you said it was George E. Bush. Is this his personal library, national archives?. Any information would be more than helpful. Thanks in advance dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 11, 1999 Share Posted September 11, 1999 Hey Dano, George was a very friendly chap that I "met" over on another board (can't remember which one now, something to do w/ AFV's) who offered to actually send me copies of the photos he had when I put an inquiry up on their chat page some time back after the armor mod's to the Sherman discussion started here. The pictures he took are from someplace called Rock Island which, if I remember correctly, is somewhere in Illinois. They have a Sherman there and several other items of interest (howitzers, etc.) all in some sort of "outdoor" museum. I had the photos scanned in at one point, but lost them when I had to reformat my hard drive. Anyway, for you, Charles, and anyone else that is interested I'm going to try and scan them again this weekend and then post them here. George, if your lurking about somewhere out there I hope this is OK w/ you ??? Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 11, 1999 Share Posted September 11, 1999 He was over on the AFV News boards for sure: http://www.mo-money.com/AFV-news/ Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 11, 1999 Share Posted September 11, 1999 Yup Steve, I do believe that was it. Thanks for the reminder. Mike D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 11, 1999 Share Posted September 11, 1999 Thanks Mike, the posting of the pictures would be great. Thanks for the help, and thanks to George in absentee. dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 12, 1999 Share Posted September 12, 1999 Dano, Charles, et. al., I've got the pics scanned in thanks to my brothers assistance. They are way too big though both from a literal size stand point (on the screen) and file size too. Plus some of the contrast isn't as good as could be. So I'm going to do some work on them here today to whittle them down to size and polish them up a bit. Should be able to post them by sometime this evening. I will probably only post 2-3 of them though because I don't want to bring the CM board down since they will probably still be aroundn 100K in size or so each. I'll e-mail the others to Dano, Charles/Steve so you can have the rest of them too. Anyone else that wants the other pics can just send me an email at mikester@ibm.net and I'll be happy to e-mail them to you as well. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 12, 1999 Share Posted September 12, 1999 Everybody, Got the pics adjusted sooner than I thought. Didn't change the file size though since I didn't want to lose any of the clarity. Since they are still kind of big I'm going to post them to a separate thread called Sherman Armor Modifications, just to be sure they don't overload the system on this thread since it is already about 40k big or so from what I can see. Steve, if when I post them over on the new thread they bring the system to it's knees or something, just nuke the thread and I'll cut down the file sizes and repost them again. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester A fools wisdom knows no bounds other than the infinite space between his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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