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Dealing with those 88s without knowing where they are (as you do if you win the breakout) is going to be very tough. It's a bit perverse to make the scenario following a loss harder than it would have been following a victory, and then say "oh, but you have to lose two in a row to get bumped to the extended versions of the subsequent scenarios". If you lost one Combined Arms advance into unknown opposition, how likely is it that you'll win the next?

I won the scenario and only lost an armored car to those 88's, but I don't see nothing wrong with this setup in a campaign. Actually, I think that type of between mission carrying status functionality is the pinnacle of a campaign and should be used more often. Otherwise campaigns are just sewed together scenario's with or without some core units.

Having encountered plenty more 88's in the game and having just discovered another cleverly hidden 88 (spotted by a scout team) in bloody Aalst, imo they are indeed tough like they should be to be but surely not 'unovercomeable'. Now let's see how that 88 handles incoming 88 Howitzer fire :D

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I just "completed" this mission, running 4.02. The bridge is bugged for the Americans, after you blow the wire you cannot cross the bridge, or even step foot on it. I assaulted along the american side

It was once said that there where many different issues with bridges, and they had to fix it case by case, so the glitch you found might even be a different one (with the same result) than the one the

What it means is, that I have actually tried to find out why the glitch occurs. A "Thank you" would have been nice. But, you obviously have no manners.

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Aalst after 12 minutes without almost a shot fired, spotted 88 circled. Only my Little John adapted scout car fired on an enemy Jpz. It actually penetrated but no visible effect apart from buttoning up. Fired of plenty of smoke rounds, arty and suppressive fire though. A good chunk of it wasted on empty buildings :D

CM%20Normandy%202014-04-01%2021-07-37-52.jpg

I guess the bloody part is still to come!

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I won the scenario and only lost an armored car to those 88's...

How did you go about finding the AT? How did you discover your first one? How did you kill them?

...I don't see nothing wrong with this setup in a campaign...

There's nothing wrong, per se with having a lost scenario make the next one harder. It makes perfect sense. It's just disingenuous to then say "you have to lose 2 to in a row to get bumped to the 'easy track'." It would have been better to have another paratroop scenario interleaved with the XXX Corps ones.

...88 ...are indeed tough like they should be...

There's a difference between "tough like they should be" and surviving 10s of minutes' worth of Sherman bombardment.

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How did you go about finding the AT? How did you discover your first one? How did you kill them?

Was some time ago so can't really distinguish between the two earlier IG scenario's anymore, but IIRC at least one by losing an AC ;) Probably I discovered most by sneaking scout teams as deep possible and keeping as much eyes towards the objectives as possible. In the briefing of all guards missions there is notion of enemy AT and AA guns, so I was expecting some.

There's nothing wrong, per se with having a lost scenario make the next one harder. It makes perfect sense. It's just disingenuous to then say "you have to lose 2 to in a row to get bumped to the 'easy track'." It would have been better to have another paratroop scenario interleaved with the XXX Corps ones.

So after losing the first and failing to recover your wits in the second mission, you get bumped into the easy track? Sounds reasonable to me! :D

There's a difference between "tough like they should be" and surviving 10s of minutes' worth of Sherman bombardment.

How many times does that happen? I remember one 88 on the far/deep right on the edge of a small forest, behind some sandbags. They weren't hard to spot because of the sandbags, but just wouldn't die...for a long time. In the end it did succumb to sustained machinegun, 75mm and mortar fire :)

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I recall that I enjoyed Aalst a lot. I found most of the 88's and enemy tanks were spotted relatively easily by having observers in good positions and just leaving them there for a few minutes. It's also wise to send an infantry patrol around that right flank.

As I mentioned in other threads I found it frustrating to take out guns with arty (they withstood a lot), and amazingly easy to take out enemy tanks with HE.

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I recall that I enjoyed Aalst a lot. I found most of the 88's and enemy tanks were spotted relatively easily by having observers in good positions and just leaving them there for a few minutes. It's also wise to send an infantry patrol around that right flank.

Indeed, thats how I have spotted (so far) 2 88's in Aalst and 1 Pak 40. The Pak got off some fire against soldiers not sticking to fire discipline but lucky for them it when just over their heads.

Indeed that right flank stream is asking for an infantry patrol and that is where my most right platoon is about now.

I laid a massive smoke screen to get in position and was surprised at the lack of resistance entering the city. However, it has already stiffened up and there is some heavy fighting going on! :)

As I mentioned in other threads I found it frustrating to take out guns with arty (they withstood a lot), and amazingly easy to take out enemy tanks with HE.

Not my experience. Sometimes I'm unlucky but usually a heavy quick 81mm mortar mission is enough to take out a single gun. When sneakily positioned or entrenched I go for a heavy short mortar mission or some heavier shells if available. If the artie didn´t kill the gun is usually suppressed so other weapons can finish it off.

I didn´t have very good results targetting tanks with artillery in CMBN though.

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It strange how players have such different experiences. In all my Brit Nijmegen missions I have used arty to easily kill enemy armor. But, the guns, especially pesky 20mm AA have been very hard to kill. Even if I KO all but one of the crew he is able to recover within seconds and fire back effectively causing lots of minor damage to tanks.

Someone suggested pulling back firing units so that the enemy gun crew can run away rather than fight to the death.

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It strange how players have such different experiences. In all my Brit Nijmegen missions I have used arty to easily kill enemy armor. But, the guns, especially pesky 20mm AA have been very hard to kill. Even if I KO all but one of the crew he is able to recover within seconds and fire back effectively causing lots of minor damage to tanks.

We all play differently. Such occasions probably reflect variance in our understanding and execution rather than anything systematic. When controlled situations are set up and observed from both sides, consistent results are seen.

Someone suggested pulling back firing units so that the enemy gun crew can run away rather than fight to the death.

That was me. An alternative is to switch to Target Light; the crew will often brave the fire of 4-6 MGs to run away, where the bombardment of 3 tank guns won't leave them that option.

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It is entirely possible I'm just not very good at this game :) I just got a Total Defeat on Mission 5 (Riethorst).

The hotel was a tough nut to crack, which combined with the MG 42 in the objective to the right, meant that by the end, my entire para platoon was rattled and bloodied (probably 20-30% losses).

I attempted to move up the only non-rattled troops (the company HQ group) and lost about 3 of them to one MG 42 burst. After the ceasefire, I noticed that there was an entire platoon of Germans hiding in the backyard of the hotel (most cowering), where they'd retreated to after leaving the hotel. They must have had visibility through one of those hedgerows around the hotel.

I don't like replaying missions, but I will in this case - not much sense in proceeding with the campaign with 3 losses in a row.

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Wow Paper Tiger. Just wow.

SPOILERS

I never got to test this in beta but I am neck deep into Aalst right now and I am having a great time. I did get lucky as I sent a squad to the right to work that flank and it has saved my bacon in this bloody slog mess.

THE QUESTION: Are you going to rework this campaign under 3.0 so we can have triggers? Can you imagine?!?!??

You sir, are a master.

You were even clever enough NOT to start the German FO's in the bell tower at the start but to have them climb up there later. I put several 75mm shells into it on turn 1 only to find them up there later not a scratch!

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Just an update on Aalst.

Germans surrender. I was surprised as I still had half the map to go. I am kind of bummed because I had a hell of a plan coming together when they through in the towel.

Score 700 to 22. Warrior mode.

They had 75 men left and 1 tank.

I had 420 men left. I lost 21 killed and 21 wounded. I lost 2 shermans and 1 staghound.

Fun fun fun.

I bet they gave up because I cleaned the right side of the map with all those 88's. If they still had those I bet it would of been hell getting off that map.

Maybe a little protection for those flank guns in the remake?

Cheers.

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Yes. Forcing surrenders seems much easier than actually accomplishing the mission of getting off the map.

I suppose it's the same result, but I agree, it would be more satisfying to actually be able to exit the units and feel that "one is getting somewhere".

Enjoying the campaign however. Now, CMRT will drag me away. :(

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Obviously I was punished for my previous remarks and now facing a stubborn 88 as I was a bit stingy on arty rounds :(. If it won't die soon I will ultrakill it!

Halfway the Aalst map already so I guess they will surrender quite soonish then. Too bad as I was just planning a major artillery bombardment on the last objectives.

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Can someone give me some advice on the 5th mission (Riethorst)? I just failed it for the second time - very frustrating.

Tried the same plan - pushed troops up through the orchard and the trees near that. I ended up doing even more poorly than my first try - I don't think I killed a single German in the hotel.

I'm not sure how to deal with the Germans on the first floor of the hotel. The hedge in front of the hotel seems to protect them from pretty much all fire.

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I'll give you a few hints (if they don't help, I can give you a blow-by-blow...): your fire teams have excellent long range fire power. You have two commanders to provide C2. Bazookas aren't just for use against armour.

A slightly spoilery hint: going in the front from just the orchard probably isn't the best idea; the defenders in the hotel itself are not your only worry.

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Now, I've just given up on the Heuman Lock scenario (M7). Someone tell me how I'm supposed to even begin approaching it. I have one smoke mission available and less than 40 other rounds of 81mm HE. With 25 minutes you don't have time to hang about waiting for the mortar boys to get their fingers out. You can't shoot the bunker out unless you get lucky (and that would, in any case, be arsewater); this isn't 5 HMGs at 250m, and the zook requires extreme fluke to defeat it. What cover there is, your troops won't use.

How did you guys manage?

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********SPOILERS*********

I split all my squads into short range assault and long range support. Put all support in buildings that could fire at the bunker and overwhelmed it. IIRC it was abandoned after a few turns, or possibly I was able to get my assault guys up along the left most edge into the ditch next to the canal. and hence close to the bunker.

The support and mortars then need to suppress any MG's (and the gun) across the canal so your assault troops can rush the bridge and outflank. IIRC I got a surrender Total Victory.

And of course I play WEGO like any real man would. ;)

Hope this helps...

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********SPOILERS*********

I split all my squads into short range assault and long range support. Put all support in buildings that could fire at the bunker and overwhelmed it.

Did the ATG not simply annihilate the firing positions one by one?

IIRC it was abandoned after a few turns...

I've been running some tests on fire on bunkers, and even the lowest quality troops didn't quit them, even when paniced... Though I didn't let up fire, so perhaps they would have if I'd paused the onslaught... That testing convinced me that frontal fire on the pill box would a) not suppress it, and the return fire would be detrimental to my having any troops left to support the assault on the trenches, B) possibly kill it in a hideously gamey way that exploits some sort of bug...

...possibly I was able to get my assault guys up along the left most edge into the ditch next to the canal. and hence close to the bunker.

The way the AI set up for my go, I needed suppression on the Pump House from the fire teams of the platoons whose assault teams were "sneaking" up on the bunker (having rushed them across the open under cover of smoke to mitigate the bunker and ATG attrition). I use the quote marks because I couldn't for the life of me persuade them to actually keep their heads down in the ditch. They got to about 100m, and the bunker opened up. The troops I'd gotten into the right flank woods, for some unwelcome LMG losses from fire from unspotted automatic weapons plus the MMG back in the right hand farmhouse weren't enough to suppress the bunker, and the assault teams started dying, "self preserving" themselves into the open even more and dying some more.

And of course I play WEGO like any real man would. ;)

I don't know about real, but that's the mode I prefer too.

Hope this helps...

Thanks for taking the time; it hasn't raised any desire to go back and try again. I'll just suck up the loss - it's my first so far, so I just have to beat the next mission. Though I have little inclination to continue.

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The strange thing is that using the above "formula" I thought it an easy scenario. (I did have to replay it once I do admit.)

"Though I didn't let up fire, so perhaps they would have if I'd paused the onslaught..." I only just became aware of that tactic, so I doubt I let up until I saw the crew running. It could be that by that time my assault troops were close enuff and already also firing on the bunker.

I think I used the mortars to suppress the ATG, so that played little part in the game.

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I used the mortar to pin/destroy the ATG and MG positions on the Island while I leapfrogged squads over the whole field while trying to suppress the bunker with MG fire from covered positions. When my squads got near to the river (left of the bunker) I regrouped and attacked the bunker from the side. Had do use demo charges for the barbed wire but IIRC the bunker itself evacuated after several hand grenades (and being pinned by MG fire). It worked reasonably well although I took some casualties, the rush over the bridges cost me more casualties IIRC.

If I would play the mission again I would use smoke to conceal a massive push up until the river, then take out the bunker while calling for fires on positions on the island with LoF/Los on the bridges.

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I wasn't sure there would be enuff smoke for that. I forgot that I could use satchel charges on the wire and the men simply ran around it. Very few casualties crossing the bridge oddly enuff. Once that was done it was easy to outflank and kill the enemy. Ended in surrender and Total Victory.

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Now, I've just given up on the Heuman Lock scenario (M7). Someone tell me how I'm supposed to even begin approaching it. I have one smoke mission available and less than 40 other rounds of 81mm HE. With 25 minutes you don't have time to hang about waiting for the mortar boys to get their fingers out. You can't shoot the bunker out unless you get lucky (and that would, in any case, be arsewater); this isn't 5 HMGs at 250m, and the zook requires extreme fluke to defeat it. What cover there is, your troops won't use.

"arsewater". What's that? Is it like Newcastle Brown Ale?

Anyway, when playtesting, I found I had plenty of time in this mission because the map is so small and it's possible to advance from the set-up area to the bridge in a couple of minutes. The bunker IS a tough nut to crack, but once it's down and the MGs are suppressed, the Germans fold really quickly. I don't ever recall playing this one through to the end. It always ended in a German surrender for me.

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I just played "Here We Fight!"

I just had my ass handed to me. They are all dead. They are all dead.

This can happen. :o It certainly happened to me when I was playtesting the Reithorst series. The important thing is to kill as many of the Germans as you can. It will make the next mission a tad easier. Or just skeddadle when you see what you're up against.

Edit to add:

I suspect this might be an easier mission to win playing in RT than in WEGO. I rarely play WEGO but when I do, I play far more cautiously because I can't adjust my plan while the turn plays out. While in RT, I can make adjustments instantly. It's small enough to play in RT very comfortably.

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