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HMG in buildings bug


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I am currently involved in a PBEM with the Market Garden scenario "Bridge Number Seven", playing the Axis side.

The Axis side starts out with, among other resources, two MG34 heavy machineguns deployed in a heavy building.

After a few turns, my Allied opponent has split his forces two ways, in order to make (I assume) a two pronged attack on my island.

Unfortunately, after a few initial volleys, my HMG teams, who started out with their machine guns deployed, have now decided to shift around in the building, and now refuse to deploy their main weapon.

After two full turns, they still have not deployed their machine guns, even after being given "coverered arc" orders.

I'm sure this is my death knell, regarding this PBEM. If I cannot employ my main defense, which is two HMGs in a heavy building three stories high, then my opponent will just waltz up and overcome my forces with superior firepower.

So, BFC, why can't my HMGs deploy in the heavy building? This is an official scenario that shipped with the Market Garden module.

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The deployment time in buildings should be listed somewhere in the GUI, and, yes, it is 2 minutes or more.

So it is working as designed. The problem with this is what you are experiencing. With every change of position, the delay comes back. In this specific scenario, I decided to move the HMGs out into the open to make them somewhat useful again.

It is a tricky subject. The argument goes that it takes a long time to set up a HMG in a building. But the effect you are seeing is certainly not desirable.

Best regards,

Thomm

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^^^

That would be odd, unless they saw a bigger threat outside of the zone that they were able to fire at from their at-start position.

It takes LONGER to deploy in a building due to the need to find, and set up, a fire position which is stable and not leaning out a window.

The deploy timer on the unit UI should adjust for their present terrain. Does it show 2 minutes?

Ken

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Yes, but Doug stated that the MGs began the scenario already deployed but for some reason they decided on their own to pack-up. I've never seen a unit do this unless their moral broke and they were trying to run away.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. The HMG teams started the scenario already deployed, and were already firing volleys at distant enemy units, then all of a sudden they decided to pack up and shift their positions within the building, which basically leaves them rather useless for however long it takes them to redeploy, which is seemingly longer than two minutes. No, their morale did not break. They haven't even received any return fire yet.

Hopefully they will get them redeployed on the next turn and perhaps my covered arc orders will keep them in place.

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My experience is that you never put a covered arc while deploying in a building. I have had 100% success leaving no arc and deploying, then once deployed putting the cover arc in. I use a simple move>deploy>face order when getting my MGs set up. Covered arc in my opinion seems to delay/perhaps even break deploying an MG inside.

YMMV

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We're looking into this one. The TacAI really does need the flexibility to move the gun around if there's a threat closing in on the gun crew, but perhaps we need to up that threshold because of the long delay neutralizing the value of relocating in some situations.

A bug was recently fixed (for the patch) that might explain a unit occasionally not completing a TacAI caused redeploy. So that should be OK now.

Steve

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Steve, it seems that rather than "upping the threshold" you should probably have a much reduced deploy time if the crew needs to face a new threat. In other words, if the MG is already deployed and the TacAI deems it necessary to redeploy in a new direction, then deploy time should be reduced. Hopefully this is possibly with the current code. After all, the crew doesn't have to break down the entire gun to move over to a new window. Probably all they need to do is move whatever props/equipment over to support the gun.

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I'd like to second Pak40's proposal. It was argued (rightfully) that the longer setup time in building is caused by the need to prepare the room for the deployment of the MG. I would assume that the troops would prepare more than one lane of fire for the gun since repositioning is quite important (I guess). Another point is that the unit could/would use the time after the gun has been set up to prepare other lanes.

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We're looking into this one. The TacAI really does need the flexibility to move the gun around if there's a threat closing in on the gun crew, but perhaps we need to up that threshold because of the long delay neutralizing the value of relocating in some situations.

A bug was recently fixed (for the patch) that might explain a unit occasionally not completing a TacAI caused redeploy. So that should be OK now.

Steve

good news steve

i have it happen quite often,i kinda get used to it,but,some tweaking might be nice.

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"The TacAI really does need the flexibility to move the gun around if there's a threat closing in on the gun crew..."

Thank you for that Steve. However, as you know a major pet peeve is the 3rd ammo bearer seeing and able to fire at a target but the MG/gun crew unable to move a couple of inches so that the primary weapon can fire at it. Is that something that can be addressed?

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