Metacritic reviews

[Wodin]

I'd say AAR's and videos are what sells me on a wargame. It was a competition winning vid of CMSF that convinced me to buy it.

[Placebo]

With the choice of :

SEGA - set release date and release the game on that date no matter what state it is in

BF - release it when the developers are happy for it to be be released

I think Battlefront have it right, it can be frustrating when you know a great game is out "soon" but at least it will be to the standard the developers want.

[Blackcat]

In all my years of reading these boards I have been constantly amazed how rarely Steve gets seriously ratty. To be sure he blows up occasionally but only under extreme provocation and not half as often as I would or, I suspect, many other members would. He must have the patience of a saint on valium. If a new guest came into my house and started gobbing off to the other guests, not only telling them what an awful party I am throwing but actually telling lies about me, my values and behaviour then I would give him a smack in the mouth and throw him out the door.

If you are reading this, Superwoz, then know that BF do take reasoned argument and comment from their customers seriously and do change things as a result. The behaviour/capabilities of machine guns in the game is a case in point, it took time and a lot of effort by a lot of people but the last set of changes went a long way to address the faults (still a way to go, mind).

On another note, a fair few people seem to be complaining about the user interface. Am I the only one who doesn't get this? Granted I play exclusively WEGO and tend to take my time watching replays of the action and thinking out my next set of actions (a single turn can take me a whole hour) so slow and steady is my style. I also use the mouse for all commands and am of an age where I expect to have to learn how a game works. I do not expect a UI to take me by the hand and guide me through what I want to do. How could it? On the whole I find the UI does what it says on the tin. What am I missing?

[Michael Emrys]

On another note, a fair few people seem to be complaining about the user interface. Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

I too am baffled by some of those comments. Mainly because I can't always figure out what they mean by UI in their comments. When I speak of UI, which isn't all that often, I am usually referring to the information displayed on the bottom of the screen. And yeah, it could use some improving, but mostly it does what I need of it.

If on the other hand, what is intended is the way that orders are given to units, I don't quite follow the discussion at times. Could it be improved? I suppose so, and maybe I just suffer from a lack of imagination, but given the kind of game CM is, it seems to me that the current system might be hard to avoid.

Michael

[Destraex1]

Michael whenever I speak of UI I am speaking primarily of the way the camera acts and the way information is presented in real time. I actually really like the way the information is presented in the task bar at the bottom of combat mission's screen.

Black cat especially paints a picture of pain staking thoroughness and slowness in WEGO that tends to negate any of the interface problems seen in real time. To have a minute of my soldiers or my life considered over an hour is something that would be hard for me to consider normal. Gives a good advantage to the human player and no pressure that would allow the more interesting errors.

Make no mistake. I am hoping that my criticism is constructive rather than simple heckling.

My intention is to be able to appreciate this masterpiece of a game.

My problem is exactly as black cat and michael display. It is really hard to get a crowd that take an hour to play a minutes game play to realise the interfaces problems in comparison to many other less realistic games real time camera and control advances.

Problem is I want to play this game. Not those less realistic games.

I actually think that if frame rates for real time improved.. which do not matter one bit in WEGO but mean the difference between the life and death of whole units in real time..... that the interface would be more tolerable. But I am trying to avoid turning down the graphics at the same time. Having said this one of my cores is at 100% constantly when playing this game.

The interface is nowhere near accurate enough when selecting units (bounding box style) or when moving the camera to a "hot spot". Admittedly this is because I probably am not using all of the hot keys for camera control. This is because I am used to other games having NO problem with this style of play and being accurate. I can play most RTS or other top down games with mouse in one hand and beverage in the other. The only game I need all my keys for is the flight simulations I play, but not for the camera! I am used to cameras just letting me smoothly bound box things and go from their. In this I go backwards and forwards when zooming in to detail units. Where a game say like sins of a solar empire lets me zoom directly to one of hundreds of units so I can see the ships smallest features in a heartbeat. This being from solar system view!

As I said I could learn the control system better. That is my fault. Because I really did not expect to need to learn what is second nature for other games.

I should add that I am that crazy about this game that I went looking for the holy grail. A utility that could spread load of one app across cores. It does not exist of course

Like I said I suspect at the core of all the interface problems is the poor frame rate that I am getting. Compounding this is the fact that the real time interface trying to do selecting and such while real time fights are happening is much harder than when one is paused and the frame rate flies through the ceiling once more.

Half the time I bound box something and the bounding box starts in a completely different place to where I started it with the mouse. Could this somehow be hidden hex blocks interfering by choosing the closest hex?

[JRMC1879]

Michael whenever I speak of UI I am speaking primarily of the way the camera acts and the way information is presented in real time. I actually really like the way the information is presented in the task bar at the bottom of combat mission's screen.

Black cat especially paints a picture of pain staking thoroughness and slowness in WEGO that tends to negate any of the interface problems seen in real time. To have a minute of my soldiers or my life considered over an hour is something that would be hard for me to consider normal. Gives a good advantage to the human player and no pressure that would allow the more interesting errors.

Make no mistake. I am hoping that my criticism is constructive rather than simple heckling.

My intention is to be able to appreciate this masterpiece of a game.

My problem is exactly as black cat and michael display. It is really hard to get a crowd that take an hour to play a minutes game play to realise the interfaces problems in comparison to many other less realistic games real time camera and control advances.

Problem is I want to play this game. Not those less realistic games.

I actually think that if frame rates for real time improved.. which do not matter one bit in WEGO but mean the difference between the life and death of whole units in real time..... that the interface would be more tolerable. But I am trying to avoid turning down the graphics at the same time. Having said this one of my cores is at 100% constantly when playing this game.

The interface is nowhere near accurate enough when selecting units (bounding box style) or when moving the camera to a "hot spot". Admittedly this is because I probably am not using all of the hot keys for camera control. This is because I am used to other games having NO problem with this style of play and being accurate. I can play most RTS or other top down games with mouse in one hand and beverage in the other. The only game I need all my keys for is the flight simulations I play, but not for the camera! I am used to cameras just letting me smoothly bound box things and go from their. In this I go backwards and forwards when zooming in to detail units. Where a game say like sins of a solar empire lets me zoom directly to one of hundreds of units so I can see the ships smallest features in a heartbeat. This being from solar system view!

As I said I could learn the control system better. That is my fault. Because I really did not expect to need to learn what is second nature for other games.

I should add that I am that crazy about this game that I went looking for the holy grail. A utility that could spread load of one app across cores. It does not exist of course

Like I said I suspect at the core of all the interface problems is the poor frame rate that I am getting. Compounding this is the fact that the real time interface trying to do selecting and such while real time fights are happening is much harder than when one is paused and the frame rate flies through the ceiling once more.

Half the time I bound box something and the bounding box starts in a completely different place to where I started it with the mouse. Could this somehow be hidden hex blocks interfering by choosing the closest hex?

I dont get your performance issues. I dont have a cray - but I have never once experienced performance issues with this game either wego or real time.

[Destraex1]

Could be my specific rig setup. Some games like rome2 recently seem to run better on older 1st Gen i7 CPUs than current Gen. Having said this I do have performance issues on both my old lappy and my current gen3 i5 rig. But I also do have the graphics turned up and the issues are mainly when battles are large and just after firefights start.

I might try tweaking the shadows and graphics downwards

What are your graphics settings? I assume highest since you have never had problems? I will copy then itou post em.

[c3k]

Destraex1,

I'm no tech guru, nor do I play RT much. (Only VERY small battles. Feeble minds and all that... ) However, reading your post, the common denominator seems to be imprecise mouse pointing. (Camera placement and box bounding.)

Do you have an AMD video card? If so, you should not have the options toggled for it anymore. (There are some threads kicking around on this. Used to be that AMD's implementation of 3d was "off" from what the OpenGL docs called for. BFC put a special code in to make it better. You turn on that code by toggling the AMD graphics option in the menu. Sorry, I've forgotten what it's called. If you need it, let me know and I'll look it up. Anyway, now AMD's drivers are correct. I don't know which driver series got it up. I'm using 12.3 or something.)

Long winded. Try it. If you don't have an AMD/ATI video card, ignore all this.

Ken

[ASL Veteran]

I generally play WeGo, but I have played Real Time once or twice a while back, and without any pausing the game can be very fast and even overwhelming. I have to guess that most RealTime players probably play at a higher camera altitude than your average WeGo player and from a Real Time perspective I can see where things could be more streamlined or improved. I do agree that for newer players or players who aren't familiar with this game category the Real Time aspect is very important since it's probable that the vast majority of other games out there are played in Real Time so that's the mode that a new player would probably prefer to start out in.

So when players are discussing the UI, I'm thinking that the majority of those players are Real Time players and that if you play We Go everything is fine. Of course a We Go player doesn't have the time component of needing to do things quickly and efficiently with good situational awareness. I believe Steve himself has said on a few occasions that he prefers to play the game Real Time. I'm sure he is aware of the UI needs of Real Time players so you guys shouldn't form the opinion that BFC doesn't care about the UI issues that are being raised. I'm sure if Steve could wave a magic wand and create the perfect UI for Real Time play he would have waved it already.

[Michael Emrys]

I actually think that if frame rates for real time improved.. which do not matter one bit in WEGO...

Not so. I have had frame rates so poor that I literally could not control the cursor, which was jumping around the map when I tried to move it. I sometimes was left with no alternative to simply quitting that game and starting something less demanding. If you want to start comparing frustrations, I think I can hold up my end of the table. (Which is not in any way discrediting yours. Just sayin'...)

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

I have already stated that I did not buy the Italy game or it's Module. CMFI is only 1 game with 1 module and so you can't count it as two games.

I can and I do They are huge efforts and they extend the gameplay to an extent almost equal to the original Base Game's content. And they don't magically appear out of thin air, so it's a pretty good guess that we have to spend time making them. If we spend time making them then we don't have time to spend doing other things. I assume that concept is a familiar one to you, yes?

If you don't want to count the Modules as "games", that's fine. You can define anything you like however you like because it's irrelevant. Because in the end the only thing that matters is that we use our own terminology consistently.

In an ideal world we would like to have 1 Base Game and 4 Modules/Packs released on average within a calendar year. Next year we'll have 2 Base Games and, possibly, a third at the very end of 2014. We had thought one of those would be out in 2013, but that isn't practical given where we are at in the year vs. where development is at.

As for Modules/Packs, I'm guessing we'll have 4 out by the end of the year. Since we haven't done Packs yet we'll have to wait and see how fast we can make them in reality vs. theory.

Anyway, we're putting out more content each and every year compared to any previous year. It's taken us a long time to get the technical and production bottlenecks addressed, but we have. And we've done it while continually doing new things.

Destraex1,

I'm no tech guru, nor do I play RT much. (Only VERY small battles. Feeble minds and all that... ) However, reading your post, the common denominator seems to be imprecise mouse pointing. (Camera placement and box bounding.)

Seems the old ATI click problem (you said AMD, but we know what you mean ) might be responsible. Changing the setting to OFF should fix things a lot.

Steve

[JRMC1879]

Could be my specific rig setup. Some games like rome2 recently seem to run better on older 1st Gen i7 CPUs than current Gen. Having said this I do have performance issues on both my old lappy and my current gen3 i5 rig. But I also do have the graphics turned up and the issues are mainly when battles are large and just after firefights start.

I might try tweaking the shadows and graphics downwards

What are your graphics settings? I assume highest since you have never had problems? I will copy then itou post em.

Cant look right now - but yes all turned to highest.

I generally keep AA at about 8x on my graphics card and AF to 2 - I find too much AF to be off putting. Looks sweet with all the Mods...

[Battlefront.com]

I just noticed 17414 posts for BFC.... superwoz if I told you once I told you 17414 times don't exaggerate.

Heh. Yeah, it is hard to imagine how I could rack up 17k+ posts telling people to "F**k off". But hey, why let a little bit of common sense and browsing time get in the way of a good story

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Could be my specific rig setup.

I am sure it is, however some of the problems might be on CM's side and not yours. We've been banging our heads as to why some high end video cards seemingly work worse than lower end ones. We identified a change in how the cards work that probably didn't matter for most 3D games but did for CM big time. It was pretty tricky to address it but preliminary testing is... well.. let's just say we should chat again after the next patch

And if you have an ATI card DEFINITELY turn off the mouse click option in Settings. We default it to OFF now, but it's possible that you still have it set to ON.

Steve

[togi]

I am sure it is, however some of the problems might be on CM's side and not yours. We've been banging our heads as to why some high end video cards seemingly work worse than lower end ones. We identified a change in how the cards work that probably didn't matter for most 3D games but did for CM big time. It was pretty tricky to address it but preliminary testing is... well.. let's just say we should chat again after the next patch

And if you have an ATI card DEFINITELY turn off the mouse click option in Settings. We default it to OFF now, but it's possible that you still have it set to ON.

Steve

Hello Steve,

when the next patch will be available?

because I can't play with my friend owns CMBN + CW with 2.01

If it's close to release, I will not turn to 2.01

thanks for the info

[GSX]

I can and I do They are huge efforts and they extend the gameplay to an extent almost equal to the original Base Game's content. And they don't magically appear out of thin air, so it's a pretty good guess that we have to spend time making them. If we spend time making them then we don't have time to spend doing other things. I assume that concept is a familiar one to you, yes?

If you don't want to count the Modules as "games", that's fine. You can define anything you like however you like because it's irrelevant. Because in the end the only thing that matters is that we use our own terminology consistently.

Steve

LOL, I don't call moving your own defined goal posts as being consistent at all. However, if your now calling modules separate games and re-defining something that was pretty much defined six years ago then that's your choice as the game vendor I suppose.

I will continue to believe that modules add to the game family as stated years ago and that new games are just that, a new main title and modules to fill it out.

If modules are now new games, why not just have CM ETO and then put out Italy modules and market garden modules for that. This actually makes more sense for me and I would probably have bought into an Italy module rather than yet another game and yet another module.

Your company, your choice and your spin. But at the end of the day, my wallet and my opinion too.

[MikeyD]

GSX, why are you arguing semantics? What's the point of that exercise? Have you looked at CMFI Gustav Line? The module BRZ is considerably larger than the basegame itself, the entire terrain was redone three times over to provide fall winter (with snow) and spring. Four nationalities were added. Gustav Line covers a significantly longer timeframe than the basegame. There was nothing stopping BFC from making Sicily one title and the Italian mainland another. I can imagine the howls of protests from 'some quarters' if they had, though.

[Canada Guy]

Just so I understand and can count

2013

CM: FI (Base)

CM: GL (CMFI Module)

CM: CM (CMBN Module)

CM: MG (CMBN Module)

CM: Module/Pack (Unspecified or unknown)

2014

CM: Bulge (Base)

CM: Module/Pack (CM: Bulge)

CM: Ostfront (Base)

CM: Black Sea (Base) - Maybe??

Am I missing anything?

[Childress]

This set of CM games get poor reviews... design flaws. ...ludicrous oversights. ... The lack of deference to ‘us’... BFs attitude is; the game is good enough so F**k off . . . But please purchase our next CM game.

Anyone here know where I can lay my hands on some of this super fine I-Hate-Battlefront loco weed? Crystal meth, 'H', Extasy: b-or-i-n-g... You met your match, losers! I'm thinking distribution. Maybe team up with an investor/partner. How 'bout it, Emrys? We'll go Breaking Bad on this town.

[Battlefront.com]

Hello Steve,

when the next patch will be available?

because I can't play with my friend owns CMBN + CW with 2.01

If it's close to release, I will not turn to 2.01

thanks for the info

I can't say when it will be out, but we are currently testing it and we're not adding any new features. Which means we're just making sure it works correctly and that we haven't missed any critical fixes. How long will that take? My GUESS is about 2 weeks.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

LOL, I don't call moving your own defined goal posts as being consistent at all. However, if your now calling modules separate games and re-defining something that was pretty much defined six years ago then that's your choice as the game vendor I suppose.

I'm not sure what you think I'm redefining. To us a game and a release are the same thing. A Base Game and a Module and a Pack are three different types of releases.

But anyway, you are correct that something that was said 6 years ago might not be as accurate as something stated today. I'm not sure what relevance something stated 6 years has to do with where we are today. We are where we are.

If your point is that things have been going slower than expected, no argument there. It always takes longer to get where we want to be without cutting corners.

I will continue to believe that modules add to the game family as stated years ago and that new games are just that, a new main title and modules to fill it out.

Whatever floats your boat.

If modules are now new games, why not just have CM ETO and then put out Italy modules and market garden modules for that. This actually makes more sense for me and I would probably have bought into an Italy module rather than yet another game and yet another module.

I've known you long enough to not be surprised that what makes sense to you doesn't make sense to us

Your company, your choice and your spin. But at the end of the day, my wallet and my opinion too.

I really wish I could figure out what your point is, other than you want us to do things faster so that we can please your wants/desires quicker. We want to do things faster too, so no disagreement there.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Just so I understand and can count..

Am I missing anything?

Little bit off Here's what I see in terms of year of release and rough order:

2007

CM: SF (Base)

2008

CM: Marines (CMSF Module)

2009

CM: BF (CMSF Module)

2010

CM: Afghanistan (Base)

CM: NATO (CMSF Module)

2011

CM: BN (Base)

2012

CM: CW (CMBN Module)

CM: FI (Base)

CM: v2.0 (Upgrade)

2013

CM: GL (CMFI Module)

CM: MG (CMBN Module)

2014

CM: Bagration (Base)

CM: Black Sea (Base)

CM: v3.0 (Upgrade)

CM: BN Pack 1

CM: FI Pack 1

CM: Bulge (Base)

CM: BN Pack 2

The one I'm not sure about is Bulge. I'm PRETTY sure we'll have it out in 2014, but we'll just have to see how that goes.

2014 is looking to be pretty well packed, though only because one of the two Bases was planned for late 2013. We're not that far off, but with the Holidays coming up I doubt we'll make it.

Steve

[GSX]

I'm not sure what you think I'm redefining. To us a game and a release are the same thing. A Base Game and a Module and a Pack are three different types of releases.

But anyway, you are correct that something that was said 6 years ago might not be as accurate as something stated today. I'm not sure what relevance something stated 6 years has to do with where we are today. We are where we are.

If your point is that things have been going slower than expected, no argument there.

I really wish I could figure out what your point is, other than you want us to do things faster so that we can please your wants/desires quicker. We want to do things faster too, so no disagreement there.

Steve

My point is I don't actually have a point, you can make games as slow or as fast as you want and you can re-define your products as often as you like. I'm cool with all of it and while I'm looking forward to the next Eastern front game I'm not in a hurry to see it rushed out. Do it when it's done.

It's your company after all, not mine, I just help to pay your bills now and again.

Cheers for the reply....

[GSX]

GSX, why are you arguing semantics? What's the point of that exercise? Have you looked at CMFI Gustav Line? The module BRZ is considerably larger than the basegame itself, the entire terrain was redone three times over to provide fall winter (with snow) and spring. Four nationalities were added. Gustav Line covers a significantly longer timeframe than the basegame. There was nothing stopping BFC from making Sicily one title and the Italian mainland another. I can imagine the howls of protests from 'some quarters' if they had, though.

My opinion is that it would have been better to make a CMETO game and have all of the modules from Italy to Normandy to the Rhine in it. No pratting around with differing versions, more guys may have bought into all of it, me for one and possible more money overall for BF.

Only one game to patch and update makes more sense to me seeing that they are essentially the same games set in different areas of the same continent.

I'm not against the game, or the content, which you say is huge for a module in the Italy game, but for me, the Italy game just looks and feels like a CMBN module. Yes I've played the demo and it's just not different enough to warrant a purchase from me but I probably would have sprung for a couple of modules. Same goes for the bulge game! I won't be buying it as it will be more of the same but I would have bought a bulge module as opposed to a new game covering essentially the same theatre...

I'm sure someone with more business sense than I have worked it all out years ago though.

Cheers....

[Canada Guy]

2007

CM: SF (Base)

2008

CM: Marines (CMSF Module)

2009

CM: BF (CMSF Module)

2010

CM: Afghanistan (Base)

CM: NATO (CMSF Module)

2011

CM: BN (Base)

2012

CM: CW (CMBN Module)

CM: FI (Base)

CM: v2.0 (Upgrade)

2013

CM: GL (CMFI Module)

CM: MG (CMBN Module)

2014

CM: Bagration (Base)

CM: Black Sea (Base)

CM: v3.0 (Upgrade)

CM: BN Pack 1

CM: FI Pack 1

CM: Bulge (Base)

CM: BN Pack 2

Steve

I was way off in some of these. Time must be flying by when I was not looking. I could have sworn that CMFI and the 2.0 upgrade were this year.

Even if 1/2 the stuff that is promised in 2014 arrives, it will still be a good year. I am very intrigued about the packs as we have not yet seen them before. That and the 3.0 upgrade.

Is your 2014 list in release order (i.e. will Bagration still be in 2.0 and be the next release) or is this jumbled and we will see the 3.0 upgrade alongside one of the new base games?