While we are waiting

[para]

It was mentioned earlier about the murder of the British soldier on the a London street. If those scumbags had access to firearms, i would imagine we would of seen many more dead.

Anyway, I can see that you guys are determined to keep your ''freedoms'' and against any change. I am an outsider with only a limited knowledge of your values. You know more about your country than i do.

I could not live in a place were children/people are slain by the dozen and yet nothing changes. I just find it hard to comprehend that you seem quite happy for the status quo to continue. It also seems that the majority of the American member's of this forum feel the same way on this issue.

That last remark is not meant as an insult so please do not take it that way.

[z1812]

I have just checked the statistics in my city for murders so far this year. Altogether there are 42. 18 shootings, 12 stabbings, and another 12 by other means.

But all the media talks about is "Gun Violence" and banning hand guns. No talk of banning knifes. No mention that more people are murdered by means other than shooting.

It is another situation where the media twists information and honest people who enjoy gun sport should be restricted because of the criminal behaviour of others, or the incompetence of those who should be reacting to red flags during background checks.

The rules that are in place already are more than enough to put controls on gun ownership if they are followed properly.

We must also bear in mind that no solution is 100 per cent.

[baron Jacquinot]

This is is for our American members..In light of the most recent shootings in the US. Has your opinion changed on gun ownership? I ask because, as I understand it there is a large proportion of people in the US dead set against any sort of gun reforms.

Many times I get envious of you guys being able to fire off a few rounds from WWII weapons. Then I see and read about some of the incidents in the US involving guns. It makes me glad that the UK has strict controls.

As an example, I just read that an African American was shot ten times and killed by a police officer whilst he was allegedly trying to get assistance after his car broke down. The recent Navy Yard shooting,the killing of Trayvon Martin and what seems like many many more..

Thanks God that i live in Russia and can buy SKS, Mosin, AK, RPK, PPSH, AR, etc, in semi-auto but i CAN! Your British law it's a nonsense.

Best poster about gun law))) -

[Buzz]

para..."I just find it hard to comprehend that you seem quite happy for the status quo to continue."

Did anyone suggest they were "happy" seeing mentally ill people shoot children as happened in Sandy Hook:confused:

With all due respect para, mass shooting / suicides are NOT the status quo of gun violence in the USA.

Thank you JasonC on you Naval Yard shooting description.

It would be easy to misunderstand the sequence of events in the Naval Yard shooting yesterday with a causal review of some US media reports yesterday. One initial report of Naval Yard shooter had "Assault Rifle like the military uses in war... witnesses heard 3 shots so it must be an automatic weapon." Several media outlets continued to falsely state through most of the day an "Assault Rifle" was being used. False.

As JasonC also corruptly notes most gun crime in the US is committed with handguns. The vast majority of gun deaths I have attended are committed with handguns, often 9mm. Many of the deceased knew their killer as family, or "business associate / competitor". What many do not see is for every person killed with a gun of any type there are several more people injured by gunfire.

The US has gun violence. Too many urban youth are the victims and perpetrators of handgun violence on their community. It is disturbing to many that effective measures to reduce / prevent the vast majority of gun violence are essentially ignored when politicians focus on banning "Assault Rifles".

As for mental illness let me relate an incident from many years ago. I had to interview / triage a young woman in the Emergency Room. She was known to us as a mentally ill client who was prone to "going off her meds" for weeks, getting really "crazy" and acting out. This particular visit she requested a particular MD on duty. I notified Security she seemed a little more anxious than her normal "crazy". As I escorted her to an interview area she reached in her dress and pulled out a revolver! Security and I pounced on her, disarmed her before she could shoot the MD she intended to kill only 20 feet away.

Why did she want to kill him?

She thought she heard him say something bad to her when she was out on the street a few blocks away last PM so she got a revolver and was going to kill him to shut him up.

para, Crazy people do crazy things. Most of the time this young woman was crazy but did not get a gun to kill someone. She did that night and we got lucky.

Mentally Ill people should not have guns.

As I previously noted my extensive and intense experiences dealing with real incidents of gun violence and death and personal gun violence encounters.... I prefer to maintain my right to self defense and hope I never have to exercise that right.

[mjkerner]

Para, no offense taken here. But we do care about senseless shootings. Unfortunately, the ways in which we address the truly mentally ill needs to change. Around here, most are medicated (inevitably when these shootings and other violent crimes are committed, the person was off his or her meds), and let loose on the community. Walking downtown Madison you will encounter numbers of them on any given day.

Also, as cold as it sounds, those nasty mass shootings are outliers...just like CM spotting, penetrations, etc.

[baron Jacquinot]

It was mentioned earlier about the murder of the British soldier on the a London street. If those scumbags had access to firearms, i would imagine we would of seen many more dead.

If your citizens will still has firearm, this scumbags may lie down in a pool of his own blood.

[mjkerner]

By the way, when I was a kid...50 plus years ago...we had fewer gun control laws, and many more guns (it seems like, anyway, in my little hometown), but many fewer mass shootings nationally. Charles Whitman in the Austin University Campus Tower, the " in Cold Blood" killings in Kansas, and Charles Starkweather's spree killings were about it in the 50's and 60's as far as I recall. But liberal attitudes toward the mentally ill and juvenile/younger adult crimes took hold in the 70's and 80's, and it seems to me to correlate well with the increase in mass violence, considering gun laws have also gotten stiffer since I was a kid. Then you have the senseless violence-type games like Grand Theft Auto, and of course more casual violence in movies and TV, all apparently adding to the mix. But that's just my personal take on it.

[Mord]

Also, as cold as it sounds, those nasty mass shootings are outliers...just like CM spotting, penetrations, etc.

BINGO! Another feel good, pointless, worthless law will not change it...EVER.

The whole gun debate has nothing to do with violence it has to do with control.

Mord.

[para]

As i said earlier, i do not wish to offend any of our American friends. You guys know more about this topic than i do. I would also say you know more because you have to defend these laws to all and sundry.

In my opinion (i know it means nothing) there needs to be more gun control. The current system you have does not seem to be working. Hell some people even suggest that everybody should be armed.

Why not have a system where not everybody and anybody who wants a gun can go and legally get one.

Why not make it harder for people, whether they be criminals, mentally ill, the bullied teenager or just plain old fed up of the world to go slay a bunch of nursery kids. Why not make that a little harder to do.

[Wicky]

If your citizens will still has firearm, this scumbags may lie down in a pool of his own blood.

In Russia do you shoot people before they commit a crime?

By the way both attackers of Lee Rigby were later shot, and arrested.

[mjkerner]

What we really need is more Chuck Norris!

[para]

If your citizens will still has firearm, this scumbags may lie down in a pool of his own blood.

Sorry baron Jacquinot, I disagree. America has 300million guns in private (might be wrong) ownership. Yet armed citizens there still cant stop this type of thing happening.

If we were able to get guns fairly easily then this could of been much worse.

[baron Jacquinot]

By the way, when I was a kid...50 plus years ago...we had fewer gun control laws, and many more guns (it seems like, anyway, in my little hometown), but many fewer mass shootings nationally. Charles Whitman in the Austin University Campus Tower, the " in Cold Blood" killings in Kansas, and Charles Starkweather's spree killings were about it in the 50's and 60's as far as I recall. But liberal attitudes toward the mentally ill and juvenile/younger adult crimes took hold in the 70's and 80's, and it seems to me to correlate well with the increase in mass violence, considering gun laws have also gotten stiffer since I was a kid. Then you have the senseless violence-type games like Grand Theft Auto, and of course more casual violence in movies and TV, all apparently adding to the mix. But that's just my personal take on it.

This is they strategy, more violence on tv, on video, in mass media, and when this violence go to the streets, they say - " Oh ****, but we know what we must do, just give your guns to us".

[para]

What we really need is more Chuck Norris!

No No NO because i heard that...Chuck Norris loves a bath. Bloodbath.

[para]

This is they strategy, more violence on tv, on video, in mass media, and when this violence go to the streets, they say - " Oh ****, but we know what we must do, just give your guns to us".

Seriously isn't that a tad paranoid?

[baron Jacquinot]

In Russia do you shoot people before they commit a crime?

By the way both attackers of Lee Rigby were later shot, and arrested.

In Russia if you will shoot person without weapon which attack you, you can have 2 year in jail - article "exceeding of self defence limits". But you have choice, shoot or not, jail or cemetery.

[iMolestCats]

Sorry baron Jacquinot, I disagree. America has 300million guns in private (might be wrong) ownership. Yet armed citizens there still cant stop this type of thing happening.

If we were able to get guns fairly easily then this could of been much worse.

Most of the gun violence here are in the cities with the most gun control, Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C. and L.A. Also most mass shootings happen in GUN FREE zones. Not to mention the fact that the Aroura shooter who killed serveral people in that movie theatre went out of his way to find a gun free theatre. Gun control is people control.

[baron Jacquinot]

Seriously isn't that a tad paranoid?

Maybe, but who knows, we can see tendency around the world to accept more hard gun laws.

[para]

Maybe, but who knows, we can see tendency around the world to accept more hard gun laws.

Believe me if Government decided to crush the population they have enough weaponry to do so and you having a gun(s) will not make a jot of difference.

[baron Jacquinot]

Believe me if Government decided to crush the population they have enough weaponry to do so and you having a gun(s) will not make a jot of difference.

Without civil guns they can make it easy, with low blood. Do you know what comissars did with people at Russian civil war? We don't want that **** again, many people in Russia buy guns now, more and more with every year.

Do you want that somebody take your land, wife, children, money, food, gold, home etc, and send you to gulag in Siberia?

Two of my great grandfathers was executed in 1937 by NKVD butchers, just for statistics.

[para]

Most of the gun violence here are in the cities with the most gun control, Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C. and L.A. Also most mass shootings happen in GUN FREE zones. Not to mention the fact that the Aroura shooter who killed serveral people in that movie theatre went out of his way to find a gun free theatre. Gun control is people control.

Just had a quick read on the Aroura shooter. I remember this one because it was a DKR showing..I do not know how a gun free zone works but....

On July 20, 2012, a mass shooting occurred inside of a Century movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, during a midnight screening of the film The Dark Knight Rises. A gunman, dressed in tactical clothing, set off tear gas grenades and shot into the audience with multiple firearms, killing 12 people and injuring 70 others. The sole suspect, James Eagan Holmes, was arrested outside the cinema minutes later.

Police said the shooter bought a ticket, entered the theater, and sat in the front row; about 20 minutes into the film, he left the building through an emergency exit door, which he propped open.It was alleged that he then went to his car, which was parked near the exit door, changed into protective clothing, and retrieved his guns.About 30 minutes into the film, police say, around 12:30 am,he reentered the theater through the exit door. He was dressed in black and wore a gas mask, a load-bearing vest (not to be confused with a bulletproof vest), a ballistic helmet, bullet-resistant leggings, a bullet-resistant throat protector, a groin protector and tactical gloves.Initially, few in the audience considered the masked figure a threat. He appeared to be wearing a costume, like other audience members who had dressed up for the screening. Some believed that the gunman was playing a prank,while others thought that he was part of a special effects installation set up for the film's premiere as a publicity stunt by the studio or theater management.

It was also said that the gunman threw two canisters emitting a gas or smoke, partially obscuring the audience members' vision, making their throats and skin itch, and causing eye irritation. He then fired a 12-gauge Remington 870 Express Tactical shotgun, first at the ceiling and then at the audience. He also fired a Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle(in what situation would anybody need one of these?) with a 100-round drum magazine,(100 round drums? are you about to be invaded ;p) which malfunctioned after reportedly firing about 45 rounds.Finally, he fired a Glock 22 40-caliber handgun

Do cars get searched in gun free zones? This guy is able to obtain tactical ballistic equipment, tear gas,several weapons and 100 drum magazines..all quite easily

[iMolestCats]

Believe me if Government decided to crush the population they have enough weaponry to do so and you having a gun(s) will not make a jot of difference.

Go ask to the mujahadeen or taliban.

The government right now would have a hell of a time confiscating guns or try to take over. You need to have the support of the people.

If the government here in the states tries to take anyones guns there would be a civil war like no other. Im talking a massive insurgency. Right now people are PISSED at the government trampling all over our rights, spying on us! It makes me mad thinking about it.

[c3k]

Hi Mom!

More characters.

[para]

Without civil guns they can make it easy, with low blood. Do you know what comissars did with people at Russian civil war? We don't want that **** again, many people in Russia buy guns now, more and more with every year.

Do you want that somebody take your land, wife, children, money, food, gold, home etc, and send you to gulag in Siberia?

Two of my great grandfathers was executed in 1937 by NKVD butchers, just for statistics.

No i don't baron, actually it has never crossed my kind. I have enough worries in my life than to take ones that would make me crazy.

[baron Jacquinot]

Go ask to the mujahadeen or taliban.

The government right now would have a hell of a time confiscating guns or try to take over. You need to have the support of the people.

If the government here in the states tries to take anyones guns there would be a civil war like no other. Im talking a massive insurgency. Right now people are PISSED at the government trampling all over our rights, spying on us! It makes me mad thinking about it.

If I remember in US constitution you have right to excite rebellion?