Knaust Posted November 24, 1999 Share Posted November 24, 1999 Is CM going to be sold in retail copies too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstand Posted November 24, 1999 Share Posted November 24, 1999 CM can only be bought online from Battlefront.com ------------------ "Armchair Generals never lose any men"-Darstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted November 24, 1999 Author Share Posted November 24, 1999 Do u ship to Italy too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted November 24, 1999 Share Posted November 24, 1999 For the internet, the earth is only one big ball (That's a yes, they also ship to Italy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted November 25, 1999 Author Share Posted November 25, 1999 lol@moon (another big ball)..thx buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 I, like all of your fans, would like to see you guys nab a publisher (like Talonsoft for example) so that the game would end up in stores. I preordered but I would like to see ya'll be able to make alot of money on it and enjoy healthy dividends. As a gamer, and a huge fan, I know I would only benefit from having you all in charge of future projects with lotsa cash-ola. Is there a chance that you all might seek a publisher for retail sales with CM2?? What about the shareware model that brought fame and fortune to Id's Doom? Keep up the great work. [This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 11-24-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Well, speaking as someone outside of BTS etc and actually a strategy game reviewer at TGN I think that the ONLY reason CM is being made is that BTS did NOT go with a big publisher. A big publisher often gives the actual developers 10% (or less) of the cost of the game after everything else is paid for. A game catering to hrdcore gamers simply can't pay for the developers foodbills if they're only getting 10% (and often significantly less). Sell it yourself and basically, once you pay for costs you get to keep the rest hence you can make a game for the hardcore afford to sell 1/4 of the copies and STILL make more money than you'd make if it sold in shops. Also, publishers would want to sell CM to the mass mass market. They'd want to dumb things down to make them more appealing to the mass market. This isn't an attack on publishers since they're only doing what they need to do to make a profit and stay in business BUT hard-core strategy games simply don't survive or stay hardcore in the mass market climate. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 TeAcH, if we had gone with the Publisher that was chasing after us, I can promise you that it would have a) been put on lots of store shelves, and about 8 months before it was ready, no matter how strongly we objected. Ever wondered why nobody has made a Combat Mission level of quality game before? Because it takes a LOT of time. Time is money, and money is really all the Publishers are after. So... if we went with a Publisher you would see CM as you have pretty much every other wargame out there. Either "Ho Hum" same old stuff, or "it could have been good if they just spent more time on it". Both suck in our opinion For a little more about the evil that is Publishing, see: www.battlefront.com/about Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Just read the manifesto. Good points! I sure hope this will have an impact on, well, all actors in the game. I.e. a year from now it suddenly dawns on a lot of people that CM has sold a lot and generated good money for BTS. It just took a little longer than your average Doom clone, which most 3D games after Doom has been (helmet - check, kevlar west - check, flamingproof attitude - check ). Some Q for the good folks at BTS: How many copies do you need to sell to break even (or is that classified), how many copies do you hope to sell and how many pre-orders have you got? Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Hawk said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Some Q for the good folks at BTS: How many copies do you need to sell to break even (or is that classified), how many copies do you hope to sell and how many pre-orders have you got?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As a finance major I was curious about this too. Obviously BTS can't divulge inside numbers but I'm sure when they laid out their business plan they went over how many units they needed to sell. A rough extimate I got was that each online sale generates as much money for BTS as 10 retail sales. If a wargame like Close Combat did well by selling over 100,000 copies you can probably guess how many Combat Mission needs to sell to do well. Steve and charles have put something like 2.5 years each into Combat Mission. The experience that Steve and Charles obviously have doesn't come cheap. I would guess that something like 10,000 copies would be a realistic goal (I hope). I've been reading this message board for a little over three months. In that time there have been a lot of features and graphics added and changed. Now, BTS must think that this extra time spent on the game is worth it when they otherwise, as Steve mentioned, would have already had the game out the door if they were being published by somebody else. I can think of three reasons why BTS is spending all this time making CM better and better: They are perfectionists, they're insane, they think that the extra time will genereate incrementally more sales. I personally think it is a little bit of all three. BTS has shown rabid attention to the smallest detail (fixing smoke trails on bazookas), anyone who would develop a wargame or own a Weasel is a little nutty, and BTS is obviously more aware of sales data than we are. I want CM to sell tons and make lots of money. The better CM1 sells, the better CM2 will be. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 I'm sure Jason mean's "they're insane" in the nicest way possible. Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Very likely! When it comes to computer wargaming, I do feel somewhat insane myself! "Fanatic" would be a nicer word, but let's not kid ourselves... (getting closer to the weekend by the minute) Hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MajorH Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 > I, like all of your fans, would like to see you guys nab a > publisher (like Talonsoft for example) so that the game > would end up in stores. I preordered but I would like to > see ya'll be able to make alot of money on it and enjoy > healthy dividends. Going with a traditional publisher would guarantee that: a. We would make little or no money. b. Our games would not actually get into very many stores. c. Our game would not stay in the stores for more than a few months. d. We would still end up selling our wares via the Internet but we would have surrendered the profits from the period of greatest sales to the middlemen. > This isn't an attack on publishers... I would suggest covering them [publishers] with honey and staking them out over an anthill, but it would be cruel to the ants. ------------------ Best regards, Major H majorh1@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 This has really been enlightening topic. I guess I assumed there would be a physical "ship date". But seeing the freedom that online sales gives you to make a game like this, I guess it's the best way to go. I have never actually bought a game w/o a box. I assume that we are registered with BTS, in case our hard drive crashes and we need a fresh install, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Cap'n Foobar, we are actually going to get a physical CD-ROM and printed manual. Probably no box, though, as they are fairly expensive - I think what was being bandied about a while ago was a ziplock bag or something similar. [Just like those old mini-wargames, cool! ] <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Steve and Charles have put something like 2.5 years each into Combat Mission. The experience that Steve and Charles obviously have doesn't come cheap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Another thing that doesn't come cheap is living for 2 1/2 years without any visible means of support. Steve, Charles, be sure to thank your SO's from all of us for keeping you in developer-kibble and not sending you out into the Real World to get a job over this period! Leland J. Tankersley [This message has been edited by L Tankersley (edited 11-25-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Major H said: "I would suggest covering them [publishers] with honey and staking them out over an anthill, but it would be cruel to the ants." LOL. 1. It's a really funny image and I can think of 1 or 2 prime candidates . 2. I know of quite a few developers pushed into bankruptcy by publishing "rush it out the door" decisions. 3. Activision actually had to be taken to court to pay one developer ANY money at all. Never mind royalties, it didn't even pay the developer the payments for hitting gold. It's a much murkier business than most people realise as I have been finding out over the past few months. Keep on trucking Major . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Dar said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm sure Jason mean's "they're insane" in the nicest way possible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, yeah. And I think we fans are a little strange, too. It's Thanksgiving here in America and I should be doing things with family. But what am I doing? Reading this board. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkerT Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Hi Big Time Software ! L Tankersley (kind founder of the JAS foundation) said: quote. Cap'n Foobar, we are actually going to get a physical CD-ROM and printed manual. end of qoute. I think i red in an older post that the manual (here I go about the manual again) would not be of the printed kind but rather included in PDF or som other format on the disc - this to save shipping cost's (all nordic brothers ! let the wave roll). So what's the verdict ? Anyhow, if it makes it easyer for you to make last minute changes, enhancements & additions then please dont hesitate to take the easy way out. With grand expectations ! Frans E. Jensen. ------------------ If you can't join'em beat'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 HawkerT, No, what you probably read was a little campaign people mounted a while back to get the manual in pdf format downloadable off the web while they were waiting for the game. It isn't going to happen and can't happen since the manual hasn't been finished yet. The manual is going to be just like any other manual, paper book format. It's not going to be in electronic format on the CD as far as I know. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Thanks so much for enlightening me about publishers and their tactics. I just never realized that that would be the case. Now that I think about what you all have said about them, it really jogs my memory. I do remember reading all sorts of the articles in various computer mags about those very things you all mentioned (rushed out the door, the dumbing down of the game, deadlines, etc.) Please pardon my ignorance. I wish you all great success. Who knows? Maybe you all will rewrite that whole scene with this one. It sure is an impressive title like none before it. That's because a publisher wasn't involved! Right? (See. I learn quick). Wishing I had the money to buy 20 copies to pay you back for this gem, TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 I have seen combat mission for sale on a swedish website,http://www.softwareexpress.se under upcomming titles (that is "kommande titlar" in swedish. It is going to cost 499 SEK, which is about 60 dollars in todays currency. Wonder if they have put in a preorder here... It is not much cheaper than ordering it directly from battlefront.com, just a couple of dollars. ------------------ Fredrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Well, my above statement for the self ordering prize didn´t include eventual taxes which is very high in sweden, so the offer from softwareexpress might be very interesting (for us swedes at least) ------------------ Fredrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Hi Fredrik ! I saw Combat Mission over at Chips&Bits Online (Online store for games, books, etc.) a while ago, but searching this week, no more offer was found there. The price of the offer I saw was about $43 and S&H was about $10 to germany (cheaper than ordering from the developer itself !?!?!?). What's the truth now ??? Only ordering from BTS or will there be some copies out in other online stores ? I guess, this only was an mistake offer by Chips&Bits and I'd wonder, if you really could buy it at softwareexpress ! But would be very interesting, if yes ! Soma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Hi Soma I was also a bit wondering over this offer myself so I sent them a mail about it yesterday. They haven´t answered yet. Maybe it is a mistake from there side. I hope not. ------------------ Fredrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 Ignore anybody who advertises Combat Mission for sale. Only Battlefront.com can sell Combat Mission, and therefore the others are just wishing they could These places generally offer games for sale because they EXPECT that they can get their hands on them. Therefore, the offer CM for sale without any authorization from us. We told Chips & Bits, and some others, to remove CM from their lists as it will only confuse you guys. The reason why we aren't going with mail order, as well as retail, is becaue they take a significant chunk of each sale for themselves. If they advertise CM then we have to *pay* them thousands of dollars on TOP of the percentage they keep. So since we have a small market, it doesn't make sense for us to go with mail order as we will likely lose money in the end. Since we need to make money to keep making games, this is a bad deal for everybody but the mail order companies. Yup, this is a complicated business, where someone has to get screwed over it seems. Since Publishers don't like to be screwed, they usually make sure it is either the customer or the developler. Often times it is both. Retail? They get screwed sometimes too, but IMHO it is usually a byproduct of their overall greed. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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