Some thoughts on sound files (for Steve).

[Oddball_E8]

ROFL, then I guess I don't know what they really sound like. Hint: I own or have fired many of the weapons in BoB or that are about to be featured in Bagration. They do sound much like they're depicted in the miniseries.

Not when I've heard them fired.

When I heard them fired on the range, in person.

Ok, so you have heard them fired and I have heard them fired. Have you heard them fired just one shot at a time? Because the main audial difference between a tommy gun and a grease gun (IMHO) is because of the ROF. Just one shot each and they sound basically the same.

Take it up with akd, then. I'm going by what he told me here: http://filefront.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1323182&postcount=11

Well its interesting then that when I play the game with my soundmod the MG34 uses the sound i put in for the MG42. Maby they changed the way sounds work since you had that discussion. But that is how it works right now. (like I said, you can easily test it yourself)

Well, first off, don't talk to me like I'm ignorant about this stuff. Secondly, consolidating sounds just lessens the audio fidelity of the game. In case you don't remember, back when CMBN was released, a LOT of weapons shared .wav files. I finally convinced Steve that it would be a good idea to give unique .wav files for many of the weapons, and so now people like you can make unique sounds for the MP40, Sten, etc.

But wait, now you want to reverse things? Sorry, that's a no-go. BF has smart programmers working for them, and I'm sure they'll find a way to allow the game to process a high volume of sounds without crashing the game. Just like they found a way to add normal maps and better shadows to the game, I'm sure they can find a way to make the sound engine run more efficiently.

Well then firstly, I guess I have to thank you for personally making steve put in more sounds for us.

Secondly, I don't give a hoot about what you think is easy or not for BFC to program. I am going off what Steve has said about sounds. And according to him they are at the limit right now.

And going off the fact that he knows much more about the inner workings of CMx2 than you and they only added one sound for CMFI, I tend to believe him.

But hey, if you want to be bullheaded about this and stick to your guns (quite litteraly) and not let them consolidate any of the sounds simply because all guns sound slightly different in real life (even guns of the same model) then sure, lets not have any new sounds then.

Of course, they might someday make the sound engine run more efficiently, but instead of consolidating now to get new sounds, and then adding back the variety with a new sound engine, I guess we can just wait until the new sound engine shows up (if it does) to add new sounds.

[Oddball_E8]

UPDATE: No, you are right, I tested the MG34 extensively and it does use the gun 7 lmg sound. I didn't notice that until i used my latest version of the soundmod.

Oh well, theres another sound we could consolidate then.

[Rambler]

Yes, but the Italians get 1 (thats right, ONE) unique sound.

They could have gotten 2. 1 for the rifle and 1 for the machinegun.

Maybe BFC thought as you do. They must sound pretty similar, just different rates of fire, so why have two extra sounds?

I can't speak for shock force, since i don't own it, but i doubt it has more sounds since most armies are much more homogonized these days.

waclaw recently released a CMSF sound mod. He would know more of what he's talking about than you.

Oh well, theres another sound we could consolidate then.

Just no. Seriously, stop pissing in our Cheerios, dude. Yes, there are those of us who will be bullheaded against the consolidation of sounds, especially after having them expanded only to be taken away. That ain't progress.

[Oddball_E8]

Maybe BFC thought as you do. They must sound pretty similar, just different rates of fire, so why have two extra sounds?

There is a bit more difference between a bolt action rifle and a machinegun than there is between the same machinegun but with two different cooling systems (the M9191/M19171).

waclaw recently released a CMSF sound mod. He would know more of what he's talking about than you.

My soundmod: http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods?author_id=450&game_type=5

And I have been making soundmods for CM since CMBO. So please don't be a smartass.

Just no. Seriously, stop pissing in our Cheerios, dude. Yes, there are those of us who will be bullheaded against the consolidation of sounds, especially after having them expanded only to be taken away. That ain't progress.

Having the same sound for weapons that sound very much alike is not a bad idea.

Why do you have to have two different sounds for the M919 and the M1917 for example? They sound almost identical in real life!

As do the Tommy gun and the M3 Grease Gun.

Don't be so bloody stubborn, it isn't helping your own cause.

Are you seriously satisfied with the sounds we have now, and do not want more sounds added?

Because that is what I am talking about.

I'm not saying that they should just consolidate the sounds and leave it at that, I am saying that they should consolidate SOME of the sounds for the guns that sound very similar in real life so that they can make room for MORE sounds for weapons that need it (like the Italian MG's and the 15mm cannon to mention a few).

And while we are at it, they could just remove the coax sound and make the game use the sound for the correct weapon.

That would free up another slot.

[Oddball_E8]

Ouch! Sigh, I was sure they were the same - at least the default sounds (that was my last try at saving face - did you notice?).

Here's the link to the first one, on Youtube:

http://youtu.be/kecoEvifBk0

Sorry for the late reply, must have missed you.

The default sounds do indeed have the same sound for all smg's and so on.

What BFC did was to just add more sound files so that modders could make them unique, but they are all the same as they were before (so all smg's sound the same for example).

In other words, they didnt actually add any new sounds, just copies of the old sounds so we could replace them at leasure.

[waclaw]

Sure, but we have to prioritize.

If we want new sounds we have to consolidate some of the old ones.

Like I said before, I would love to have unique sounds for all the weapons, but apparantly we are near the limit of the number of sounds as it is.

I can't speak for shock force, since i don't own it, but i doubt it has more sounds since most armies are much more homogonized these days.

I can understand you, but I'm surprised the "BF", they do not want to add those few new sounds - like that was to be a disaster of performance

and as for the "shock force", I have all the modules, and somehow managed to add more sounds than "CMBN" and somehow the game works;)

[Erwin]

A related question... Can one have different versions of the same sound active in the same way as we have random uniforms or vehicle images by numbering them 1, 2, 3 etc?

[Oddball_E8]

I can understand you, but I'm surprised the "BF", they do not want to add those few new sounds - like that was to be a disaster of performance

and as for the "shock force", I have all the modules, and somehow managed to add more sounds than "CMBN" and somehow the game works;)

Yes, but your mod doesnt actually add more sounds, it just adds more variants of each sound.

So even if you fire a gun you still only pull from one source if you understand what I mean.

The game doesn't have to check for more than the number of sounds in the game, if you fire the tommy gun it still only checks for gun thompson.wav variants.

So it doesn't add to the stress in the game process by adding new sounds to new weapons.

I'm not sure I am making myself clear here. I have a fever and I am on some strong medication right now.

But even if you add variations to the sounds, there are still only that core group of sounds. Makes sense?

Also, I think this answers the question above my post. Yes you can add variations of sounds just like you can with textures.

Just add a space and then a number behind the sound name.

So for example gun thompson.wav would be gun thompson 1.wav and so on.

[Erwin]

Good to know. Thanks...

[Oddball_E8]

Good to know. Thanks...

Thank waclaw, he's the one that figured it out.

[sburke]

Is this where I buy the next pitcher and chuckle at how worked up you guys are getting? Then sit back and appreciate that there are guys like you all working on this level of detail.

Cheers! Fraulein another pitcher for my friends!

Hey wait, how come all the barmaids here have the same voice? Steve this definitely won't fly!!!

[waclaw]

Yes, but your mod doesnt actually add more sounds, it just adds more variants of each sound.

So even if you fire a gun you still only pull from one source if you understand what I mean.

The game doesn't have to check for more than the number of sounds in the game, if you fire the tommy gun it still only checks for gun thompson.wav variants.

So it doesn't add to the stress in the game process by adding new sounds to new weapons.

I'm not sure I am making myself clear here. I have a fever and I am on some strong medication right now.

But even if you add variations to the sounds, there are still only that core group of sounds. Makes sense?

Also, I think this answers the question above my post. Yes you can add variations of sounds just like you can with textures.

Just add a space and then a number behind the sound name.

So for example gun thompson.wav would be gun thompson 1.wav and so on.

probably do not understand, I mean here is that in the basic version (without mods) "Schock force" the noise affect more than CMBN (also without mods) and somehow "SF" works without problems.

[Oddball_E8]

probably do not understand, I mean here is that in the basic version (without mods) "Schock force" the noise affect more than CMBN (also without mods) and somehow "SF" works without problems.

The basic version of Shock Force has around the same number of sounds as CMBN.

In fact they are largely named the same.

You could probably use your CMBN soundmod without any changes in CMSF.

Some of the vehicle sounds would be unaffected since they have different names, but other than that it's the same.

EDIT: sorry, by "basic" i thought you meant the old release version. The new version (like CMBN) has more weapon specific sounds, but still around the same number. (48 weapon sounds in CMSF and 50 in CMBN).

Of course, this means your soundmod wouldn't work well, but alot of the sounds would still work.

[waclaw]

The basic version of Shock Force has around the same number of sounds as CMBN.

In fact they are largely named the same.

You could probably use your CMBN soundmod without any changes in CMSF.

Some of the vehicle sounds would be unaffected since they have different names, but other than that it's the same.

EDIT: sorry, by "basic" i thought you meant the old release version. The new version (like CMBN) has more weapon specific sounds, but still around the same number. (48 weapon sounds in CMSF and 50 in CMBN).

Of course, this means your soundmod wouldn't work well, but alot of the sounds would still work.

I understand, but that some of these sounds is not active (recoiless, "shot trail" or gun 128, launcher) if they can not add new sounds, let it replace the already existing

[Oddball_E8]

I understand, but that some of these sounds is not active (recoiless, "shot trail" or gun 128, launcher) if they can not add new sounds, let it replace the already existing

Oh you mean that way, yeah I can agree with that. And some are pointless like the coax sound, which should be that of the actual weapon fired (sounds wierd having the MG34 sound out of the bow, but a completely different sound out the coax on the PzIV for example)

But I don't think Steve counts the inactive sounds to his total (there are inactive sounds in both CMSF and CMBN).

[Oddball_E8]

Also, I would like to add that, sure, it might be possible to add one sound here and another one there when releasing modules, but if they are already at the edge of the possible number of sounds to be handled by the engine it might be that last sound that pushes it over the edge and starts giving people problems with even the stock sounds.

You have to remember that they are not making the game for us who have computers that can handle a fully modded game, but for the people who have computers that might even struggle with the basic game.

[Pak40]

Oddball, there's a very distinctive difference between the M3 and Thompson. The tone is slightly different but the main difference is the rate of fire.

[LukeFF]

Oddball, there's a very distinctive difference between the M3 and Thompson. The tone is slightly different but the main difference is the rate of fire.

Thank you.

[LukeFF]

Also, I would like to add that, sure, it might be possible to add one sound here and another one there when releasing modules, but if they are already at the edge of the possible number of sounds to be handled by the engine it might be that last sound that pushes it over the edge and starts giving people problems with even the stock sounds.

You have to remember that they are not making the game for us who have computers that can handle a fully modded game, but for the people who have computers that might even struggle with the basic game.

Of course it's not my position to tell people how to spend their money, but it's probably time for even a modest upgrade if one's computer struggles to run the game unmodded. It's not as if the series is exactly on the cutting edge of graphics and audio technology.

[Oddball_E8]

Oddball, there's a very distinctive difference between the M3 and Thompson. The tone is slightly different but the main difference is the rate of fire.

*sigh*

Yes. That is the exact same video i used to show that they sound nearly the same.

And the rate of fire is incorporated in the game already, the sound does not affect that.

You have to look at the sound shot for shot. As in single shot mode. Try to listen to only the actual shot, not the series of shots. Since rate of fire does change the sound a bit (both in real life and in the game) it is important to try to listen to only the sound of the last shot.

I use the same sound for M3 and Thompson in my mod and it works fine, the rate of fire really does separate them audially.

[Oddball_E8]

Of course it's not my position to tell people how to spend their money, but it's probably time for even a modest upgrade if one's computer struggles to run the game unmodded. It's not as if the series is exactly on the cutting edge of graphics and audio technology.

You go ahead and tell BFC that they should alienate a portion of their customers because they cannot afford to upgrade their computers.

See what they have to say about it.

I doubt they will agree with you tho.

[Vinnart]

Oddball, you said there are old sounds like the "gun 7" and such. I have compiled my own custom sound mod made from lots of sound mods out there including yours. I basically compared each gun sound from the different mods, and cherry picked the one I liked best, or sounded most distinct. I like the most distinct as it makes it easier to tell which weapon is firing just from listening. The point I am getting to is that I probably have too many sounds slowing my machine. For example The “High Quality” sound mod has multiple sound files per gun. Is it safe to say that only having 1 sound per gun will make the game faster? Also, if the “gun 7” sounds are old does this mean they are not being used, and can be deleted? If so can you please put a list together of what gun sound files are obsolete, and can be deleted to improve game speed. Thanks.

[Pak40]

*sigh*

Yes. That is the exact same video i used to show that they sound nearly the same.

And the rate of fire is incorporated in the game already, the sound does not affect that.

You have to look at the sound shot for shot. As in single shot mode. Try to listen to only the actual shot, not the series of shots. Since rate of fire does change the sound a bit (both in real life and in the game) it is important to try to listen to only the sound of the last shot.

I use the same sound for M3 and Thompson in my mod and it works fine, the rate of fire really does separate them audially.

OK, you were not talking about the in game sounds, but the sound of the guns "in real life", which to me are very different mainly because of rate of fire. I didn't realize that CMBN used a single shot sound bytes for automatic weapons and then just adjusts the rate of fire. I think that's fine so long as the shots sound similar like you said.

[Oddball_E8]

OK, you were not talking about the in game sounds, but the sound of the guns "in real life", which to me are very different mainly because of rate of fire. I didn't realize that CMBN used a single shot sound bytes for automatic weapons and then just adjusts the rate of fire. I think that's fine so long as the shots sound similar like you said.

Well try out my soundmod (or just use the Thompson sound from whatever soundmod you use and use it for the M3 as well) and listen to both a tommy gun and a grease gun being fired in-game.

You will notice a difference.

My point isn't that they have the exact same sound in real life, just that they are similar enough to use the same sound (especially since the M3 is really rare). To me the tommy gun has a slightly higher pitch in real life, but thats all.

But some people here seem to think i want to change the game back to how it was with one sound for rifles, one for smg's and one for MG's...

Also, on a sidenote, I have noticed that the game does alter the sounds a tiny bit (at least it seems that way) by chaning the pitch a tiny bit randomly.

[Oddball_E8]

Oddball, you said there are old sounds like the "gun 7" and such. I have compiled my own custom sound mod made from lots of sound mods out there including yours. I basically compared each gun sound from the different mods, and cherry picked the one I liked best, or sounded most distinct. I like the most distinct as it makes it easier to tell which weapon is firing just from listening. The point I am getting to is that I probably have too many sounds slowing my machine. For example The “High Quality” sound mod has multiple sound files per gun. Is it safe to say that only having 1 sound per gun will make the game faster? Also, if the “gun 7” sounds are old does this mean they are not being used, and can be deleted? If so can you please put a list together of what gun sound files are obsolete, and can be deleted to improve game speed. Thanks.

Deleting the unused sounds will not increase performance for you.

Using multiple sound files for the same sound will not decrease performance (at least it does not for me) i think.

If you are having problems with using soundmods, you probably should not use them.

Or just use the weapon sounds and have stock vanilla sounds for everything else.

And i would suggest using either JorgeMC's sounds or Akamesansan's (akame) mod since those seem to have shorter sounds (I think the length of the sounds tax the game alot more than the quality of them does).

So if I were you, I would cherry pick my sounds from those two mods and only use the weapon sounds from them, leaving the rest vanilla.

Hope that helps.