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Some thoughts on sound files (for Steve).


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So I had the discussion earlier about splitting up the italian 6.5mm sounds in two groups so modders could make one for the Machineguns and one for the Rifles (adding bolt action sounds in my case) and Steve mentioned that they cannot add too many different sounds because it slows down the game.

But that got me thinking.

We have an overabundance of dulicate sound files that really could share just one file.

The Thompson and Grease Gun could share soundfile, since they both sound VERY similar (at least when I have heard them both fired after eachother).

The M1919 and M1917 could certainly use the same sound file as well since they are basically the same weapon.

The "bow" and "coax" sounds could certainly be the same file since most tanks have the same machinegun type as bow and coax (and when they don't, it is usually reflected by having a specific sound in the game)

Another thought was that we still have the "old" sounds in the games files. (you know, the gun 7 single.wav files and the likes), so maby you could introduce a lower sound quality option for some who might be struggling with the game even in vanilla. That option would make the game use only the old base sounds. That might take off even more of the strain on an old system?

But anyway, my point is that if you restructure the sounds a bit, you could easily free up space for 3-4 completely new sounds should they be needed.

I personally wanted two sounds for the 6.5mm Italian since it would be nice to be able to distinguish the machineguns from the rifles (which can be hard if plenty of rifles are firing at the same time).

I am pretty sure they sound different in real life when fired (at least as different as the BAR/Garand/M1919 would sound from eachother despite using the same ammo)

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This would be absolutely great from my point of view - the more varied sounds the better, as for me sounds add more atmosphere than graphics - I've just been watching Ithikial's excellent AAR on the Niscemi mission - up to episode 7, and hearing the modded sounds of the 105 artillery barrage on the hill was incredible! I was actually cringing thinking of the PBI stuck in the buildings.

In particular, am I right in saying the MP40 and the Thompson share the same sound at the moment? If so, it would be great to separate them out (if not, shame on me).

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This would be absolutely great from my point of view - the more varied sounds the better, as for me sounds add more atmosphere than graphics - I've just been watching Ithikial's excellent AAR on the Niscemi mission - up to episode 7, and hearing the modded sounds of the 105 artillery barrage on the hill was incredible! I was actually cringing thinking of the PBI stuck in the buildings.

In particular, am I right in saying the MP40 and the Thompson share the same sound at the moment? If so, it would be great to separate them out (if not, shame on me).

No they do not share the sound.

In fact, what I am asking for here is to make more weapons share sounds. Weapons that, for all intents and purpose, sound the same. Like the Thompson and the M3 Grease gun or the M1917 and the M11919.

At the moment, these use separate sound files, but they could just as well use the same sound, thus freeing up another sound "slot" for more unique guns.

Also: What AAR are you talking about? I can't seem to find any here on the forum except Bil's Beta AAR...

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While we're on the subject of sound, it'd be nice if the same sound file got played for a given event on repeat playbacks in WeGo. It'd be nicer if a given unit (I'm thinking mostly about observers/spotters here) got the same sound files consistently. There are a couple of different voices for the US "Fire for effect, over", for example, and it's a bit jarring to have the same observer change his voice between missions, and especially between playbacks of the same radio message.

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We can look into consolidating some sounds to free up room for others. But someone will likely complain about their favorite sound mods not working... so we will tread carefully :D

Steve

I think you will find that most soundmods out there use very similar sounds for those sounds, so most would probably not even notice it :D

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The Thompson and Grease Gun could share soundfile, since they both sound VERY similar (at least when I have heard them both fired after eachother).

Disagree. I definitely like having these as separate files.

The M1919 and M1917 could certainly use the same sound file as well since they are basically the same weapon.

Agree with this one.

The "bow" and "coax" sounds could certainly be the same file since most tanks have the same machinegun type as bow and coax (and when they don't, it is usually reflected by having a specific sound in the game)

Only if there's a coax/bow sound for each side, i.e. a sound for the German tanks and a sound for the Allied.

It was a long slong to get BFC to finally add in some additional sounds. Really don't want to see it regress.

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Disagree. I definitely like having these as separate files.

Why? They do sound almost identical in real life, so why have a separate sound for a wapon that not only sounds almost exactly like the thompson, but also is very rare in the game?

Only if there's a coax/bow sound for each side, i.e. a sound for the German tanks and a sound for the Allied.

Well as it is there are two different sound files for coax and bow MG (gun 7 coax.wav and gun 7 lmg.wav)

These are only used by allied tanks (and maby italians). And it seems to be independent of whatever gun you have in bow and coax. So even if you have an M1919 in both coax and bow, the game would still use the bow and coax sounds instead of the M1919 sound. And that means that you can suddenly get two widely different sounds from the same weapon if whoever modded the game decides to have a different sound for coax and lmg.

The germans use the default MG42 sound.

It was a long slong to get BFC to finally add in some additional sounds. Really don't want to see it regress.

Yeah, but as it stands they have problems adding more sounds so merging some of the sounds to make way for more sounds makes sense to me.

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Actually, after listening to my sound mix, I'm going to have to change my position on the M1919 and 17. I like these separate too. Put me in the camp vehemently opposed to any consolidations of sounds, save for the bow/coax gun.

Why have these separate? It's about flexibility and the freedom for the end user to choose what they wish. The more options the better. Sorry if I can't get on your bandwagon to chop sounds from the game.

So please, BFC, don't take away any small arms sounds we already have.

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M3 and the Thompson sounding a lot alike? Not hardly. Watch Band of Brothers to hear the difference in sound between the two weapons. It's very distinct.

I'm with Rambler. We need progression in the area of sounds, not regression. Here's hoping that the M91/30 has a separate sound from the K98k in the Eastern Front series, because those are two rifles that do sound different.

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M3 and the Thompson sounding a lot alike? Not hardly. Watch Band of Brothers to hear the difference in sound between the two weapons. It's very distinct.

I'm with Rambler. We need progression in the area of sounds, not regression. Here's hoping that the M91/30 has a separate sound from the K98k in the Eastern Front series, because those are two rifles that do sound different.

Those sounds are movie sounds. They are not based on real sounds.

We are talking about guns that sound alike in real life.

I would love to have one unique sound for each weapon in the game, but that is just not possible, and from Steves statements it seems that we are pushing the limit on the number of sounds right now, so consolidating some of the more similar sounding weapons would clear up space for the more unique weapons.

As I have stated earlier, we now have only one sound for the italian 6mm weapons. That means that both the rifle and the machinegun use the same sound. If we could consolidate some of the other soundfiles (like the tommy and grease gun) it would open up for having a greater variety of 6mm sounds for example. Or the new 15mm cannon that will be in operation market garden as another example. I don't know if it has a new sound or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it just uses the 20mm or 50cal sound to save resources...

I mean, by your reasoning the MG42 and the MG34 should have separate sounds as well.

But they dont, because they are basically the same weapon, and they have the same sound. They just fire at different rates of fire which makes the MG42 sound very distinct from the MG34.

The M1917 and the M1919 are basically the same gun. One is water cooled and the other is air-cooled. Those are the major differences.

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Those sounds are movie sounds. They are not based on real sounds.

Nope, they are real sounds. They fired blanks with those weapons and weren't dubbed in.

We are talking about guns that sound alike in real life.

The M3 and the Thompson do not sound alike in real life.

I mean, by your reasoning the MG42 and the MG34 should have separate sounds as well.

But they dont, because they are basically the same weapon, and they have the same sound. They just fire at different rates of fire which makes the MG42 sound very distinct from the MG34.

Try again. Those two weapons do have separate sound files. :) I thought they were the same at first, but akd confirmed they are not.

Sorry, but you aren't going to convince me to combine more weapon sounds together. It's regression, not progression.

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Those sounds are movie sounds. They are not based on real sounds.

We are talking about guns that sound alike in real life.

I would love to have one unique sound for each weapon in the game, but that is just not possible, and from Steves statements it seems that we are pushing the limit on the number of sounds right now, so consolidating some of the more similar sounding weapons would clear up space for the more unique weapons.

As I have stated earlier, we now have only one sound for the italian 6mm weapons. That means that both the rifle and the machinegun use the same sound. If we could consolidate some of the other soundfiles (like the tommy and grease gun) it would open up for having a greater variety of 6mm sounds for example. Or the new 15mm cannon that will be in operation market garden as another example. I don't know if it has a new sound or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it just uses the 20mm or 50cal sound to save resources...

I mean, by your reasoning the MG42 and the MG34 should have separate sounds as well.

But they dont, because they are basically the same weapon, and they have the same sound. They just fire at different rates of fire which makes the MG42 sound very distinct from the MG34.

The M1917 and the M1919 are basically the same gun. One is water cooled and the other is air-cooled. Those are the major differences.

Germans can play 40% of the players, and maybe 5% of the Italians and Germans would be better to have more weapons sounds - if we have to make some compromises.

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Nope, they are real sounds. They fired blanks with those weapons and weren't dubbed in.

Trust me, those are not "the sounds" that the weapons make in real life. Movies never use the real sound of weapons because they don't sound like they do in the movies.

The M3 and the Thompson do not sound alike in real life.

Well they did when I heard them fired. When did you hear them fired in real life?

Try again. Those two weapons do have separate sound files. :) I thought they were the same at first, but akd confirmed they are not.

No, the MG42 and the MG34 do not have separate sound files. Trust me on this. But if you don't trust me, just check for yourself by renaming one of the cannon sounds to gun mg42.wav and fire an MG34 in the game.

Sorry, but you aren't going to convince me to combine more weapon sounds together. It's regression, not progression.

Ok, I am going to try to make this as simple as possible so that maby you will understand.

There is a finite number of sounds that we can use in the game before it becomes too much of a strain on the system.

I do not know the exact number, but since Steve indicated that we are near that number, I'll say its around 30-40 sounds for weapons.

Now, if you want them to add new sounds for new weapons in the future (like the 15mm cannon for example) they will have to consolidate some of the existing sounds and add a new one, or they will have to use one of the old ones instead.

So either they combine some of the sounds and add a new 15mm one or they use the 20mm or 50cal one for the 15mm.

Do you understand now why we need consolidate some of the existing sounds to be able to add more?

(understand that I am not saying that they cannot possibly add a new sound for the 15mm cannon. I do not know where the limit is, but from Steves comments it seems that we are at the limit now).

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Germans can play 40% of the players, and maybe 5% of the Italians and Germans would be better to have more weapons sounds - if we have to make some compromises.

Yes, but the Italians get 1 (thats right, ONE) unique sound.

They could have gotten 2. 1 for the rifle and 1 for the machinegun.

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Yes, but the Italians get 1 (thats right, ONE) unique sound.

They could have gotten 2. 1 for the rifle and 1 for the machinegun.

I understand, I would want to be unique sound was a lot more (also for Italians), but if I have to compromise, it would certainly not reduced the number of sounds for the American, German or British weapons

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I understand, I would want to be unique sound was a lot more (also for Italians), but if I have to compromise, it would certainly not reduced the number of sounds for the American, German or British weapons

Why not?

After all, the M1919 and the M1917 are basically the same gun, only one is water cooled and one is air-cooled.

They sound the same when fired in real life (or at least as much "the same" as two M1919's would next to eachother).

And M3 Grease Guns and Thompsons sound very very very similar in real life, so that is a perfect place to save space in sounds.

In my soundmod I use the same sound for M1919 and M1917 and the grease gun and the tommy gun also share a sound.

But in-game the tommy and grease gun sound different from eachother because of the difference in rate of fire.

Same with the MG42 and MG34. They use the same sound but sound different because of the ROF.

So why waste resources on sounds that should be very similar (almost identical even) in the game?

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Why not?

After all, the M1919 and the M1917 are basically the same gun, only one is water cooled and one is air-cooled.

They sound the same when fired in real life (or at least as much "the same" as two M1919's would next to eachother).

And M3 Grease Guns and Thompsons sound very very very similar in real life, so that is a perfect place to save space in sounds.

In my soundmod I use the same sound for M1919 and M1917 and the grease gun and the tommy gun also share a sound.

But in-game the tommy and grease gun sound different from eachother because of the difference in rate of fire.

Same with the MG42 and MG34. They use the same sound but sound different because of the ROF.

So why waste resources on sounds that should be very similar (almost identical even) in the game?

Should we expect to increase the number of sounds, the shock force is more than the "CMBN" and should go in this direction.

besides, it's a matter of expectations for me, MG42 and MG34 sound different, just as M1919 and M1917 (but similar) Hand guns also sound different (and very similar), it's the same with guns tanks etc - you can make one sound for "MG" or for hand-guns and tank guns - but reduced to the immersion of the gameplay and realism.

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Should we expect to increase the number of sounds, the shock force is more than the "CMBN" and should go in this direction.

besides, it's a matter of expectations for me, MG42 and MG34 sound different, just as M1919 and M1917 (but similar) Hand guns also sound different (and very similar), it's the same with guns tanks etc - you can make one sound for "MG" or for hand-guns and tank guns - but reduced to the immersion of the gameplay and realism.

Sure, but we have to prioritize.

If we want new sounds we have to consolidate some of the old ones.

Like I said before, I would love to have unique sounds for all the weapons, but apparantly we are near the limit of the number of sounds as it is.

I can't speak for shock force, since i don't own it, but i doubt it has more sounds since most armies are much more homogonized these days.

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Trust me, those are not "the sounds" that the weapons make in real life. Movies never use the real sound of weapons because they don't sound like they do in the movies.

ROFL, then I guess I don't know what they really sound like. :rolleyes: Hint: I own or have fired many of the weapons in BoB or that are about to be featured in Bagration. They do sound much like they're depicted in the miniseries.

Well they did when I heard them fired. When did you hear them fired in real life?

When I heard them fired on the range, in person.

No, the MG42 and the MG34 do not have separate sound files. Trust me on this. But if you don't trust me, just check for yourself by renaming one of the cannon sounds to gun mg42.wav and fire an MG34 in the game.

Take it up with akd, then. I'm going by what he told me here: http://filefront.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1323182&postcount=11

Ok, I am going to try to make this as simple as possible so that maby you will understand.

There is a finite number of sounds that we can use in the game before it becomes too much of a strain on the system.

I do not know the exact number, but since Steve indicated that we are near that number, I'll say its around 30-40 sounds for weapons.

Now, if you want them to add new sounds for new weapons in the future (like the 15mm cannon for example) they will have to consolidate some of the existing sounds and add a new one, or they will have to use one of the old ones instead.

So either they combine some of the sounds and add a new 15mm one or they use the 20mm or 50cal one for the 15mm.

Do you understand now why we need consolidate some of the existing sounds to be able to add more?

(understand that I am not saying that they cannot possibly add a new sound for the 15mm cannon. I do not know where the limit is, but from Steves comments it seems that we are at the limit now).

Well, first off, don't talk to me like I'm ignorant about this stuff. Secondly, consolidating sounds just lessens the audio fidelity of the game. In case you don't remember, back when CMBN was released, a LOT of weapons shared .wav files. I finally convinced Steve that it would be a good idea to give unique .wav files for many of the weapons, and so now people like you can make unique sounds for the MP40, Sten, etc.

But wait, now you want to reverse things? Sorry, that's a no-go. BF has smart programmers working for them, and I'm sure they'll find a way to allow the game to process a high volume of sounds without crashing the game. Just like they found a way to add normal maps and better shadows to the game, I'm sure they can find a way to make the sound engine run more efficiently.

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