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ALLIED - CMBN-Market Garden - BETA AAR (the better beta beater reader)


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The map being used is a section from one of the master maps. So you'll be able to at least approximate it by finding the area and cropping a map out for yourself. Early posts in at least one of the two threads specify which master map was used.

Ah ok great, thanks Womble.. I read most of the 50+ pages.. :)

Its a great looking map, it is complex in its own way as stated by both participants in the battle, with Urban and wooded areas great for infantry and nasty Piats... and then it has open spaces where the Kats can do alot of damage.

I must say those AA vehicles are brilliant and can do a heck of alot of damage, as they should being 20mm and 37mm

As a Marine I got to see what the AH-1W SuperCobra's could do with their 30mm's Impressive, building walls meant absolutely nothing.

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Just posting because photobucket has restored their links, so I wanted to check my screenshots. They are here. One thing I only touched on, was what a great sport Bil was to play. In every case,

Blood for the Blood God!!!!!! Crush, kill, maim!!!!! Build a throne out of skulls and wear a crown made of entrails. Grind those weak girly men into pixie dust!

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GhostRider3/3,

Those AA weapons are indeed nasty. I know of a case where a single barrel 2cm Flak caught a U.S. infantry platoon emerging from the woods and butchered it, both by grisly direct impact but also via secondary fragments (shell fragments & high velocity jagged wood chunks) and tree limbs dropping onto the hapless grunts!

On a different note, your AH-1W cannon bore listed sent me off to do some research. As I thought, the AH-1W has a three-barrel 20mm cannon, not a 30mm. Moon, info only.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/

Regards,

John Kettler

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During this slight pause in the action, I thought I'd mention another task I need to undertake: as long as Bil's Jaggie 241 is trundling in my backfield, I need to pull away from it. My mortars are the vulnerability I'm most concerned about. Of course, that concern may be moot if my Assault Jeep plan works as I hope. (However, not one of my anti-armor plans, as of yet, has worked as I'd hoped.) That will cause a slight pause in the support the mortars are giving, mostly in front of the town.

I may have a couple of the mortars drop a smokescreen in front of Jaggie 241...

Ken

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About your mortar crews, I seem to recall that during Market Garden (at Oosterbeek during the last days) a British paratrooper used a 2 inch mortar to lay direct fire on an approaching German tank or Stug. (Could it have been VC Robert Cain himself? Have to look that up.) It worked as far that the AFV backed away.

Something to tell your men, perhaps?

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If he had HE, that would work! I've actually drawn a lot of SMOKE target lines towards some of the open-topped vehicles Bil has. I'm waiting for a valid LOS. I'd love to drop a smoke round inside a halftrack (or Wirbelwind).

Right now it seems that the only ammo my 2" mortars have is SMOKE.

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About your mortar crews, I seem to recall that during Market Garden (at Oosterbeek during the last days) a British paratrooper used a 2 inch mortar to lay direct fire on an approaching German tank or Stug.

They will do that in CM, too. I had one para in GL shoot in direct mode on a PSW. Didn't do much damage but spooked the crew.

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I (obviously) haven't read Bil's thread, but he did just email me. Real life is squeezing him a bit. At least, that's what he says. We all know that my unstoppable para defense, characterized by raining piat bombs, is what has really squeezed him! ;)

19 minutes... No Germans with 100's of meters of the town. Well, discounting tanks anyway. :)

Let's see if he can find some time in his real life to devote to the AAR...

Stay patient.

Meanwhile, let's dissect my mistakes! Go!

Ken

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Nice battle... and the AAR is great. I would say great job.. at close range gettng hit by the JgdpzIV or Panther surely has wreaked some havoc, but nicely played.

Say im not sure if you have one.. but (and I could be wrong here) the 57mm UK AT gun is one powerful.. Mother!!! It may depend on the year, but it has I think 4-6 APDS rounds that can basically penetrate Tiger's or Panthers like butter from anything under 600m.. I would say that it is crazy effective.. (lost 2 Tigers in street fighting 400-350m) and 3 Panthers from side and front shots from around 600+ meters.

The tanks Menace... ATG's

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Nice battle... and the AAR is great. I would say great job.. at close range gettng hit by the JgdpzIV or Panther surely has wreaked some havoc, but nicely played.

Say im not sure if you have one.. but (and I could be wrong here) the 57mm UK AT gun is one powerful.. Mother!!! It may depend on the year, but it has I think 4-6 APDS rounds that can basically penetrate Tiger's or Panthers like butter from anything under 600m.. I would say that it is crazy effective.. (lost 2 Tigers in street fighting 400-350m) and 3 Panthers from side and front shots from around 600+ meters.

The tanks Menace... ATG's

That was a failure of mine in the meta-game, represented by the quickbattle purchase. I thought my tanks would be good for anti-tank use. Oops. Plus, in general, ATG's are tough to use in meeting engagements (which is what this is).

So, my fault for not buying any. But, yes, the British 6 pounder is a sweet little thang. Especially against light armor.

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I've been lurking on the sidelines, and have thoroughly enjoyed your spectacular writing style. The only thing I would consider a mistake would be not buying at least one para 6-pounder. It would have been brought in in a glider and moved by the jeep. On the other hand, I think many reading this AAR made a huge error in believing you a "bloodthirsty impulsive" who ricocheted from one crisis to another. I believe that your aggressiveness is what will be the deciding factor in this battle. Even though you didn't capture the intersections to prevent Bill's forces from reinforcing other units, you made him react to you and effectively tied up his forces, preventing him from moving through. Excellent tactics and a job well done!

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"I think many reading this AAR made a huge error in believing you a "bloodthirsty impulsive" who ricocheted from one crisis to another"

And we were wrong? Seriously, C3K's biggest mistake in this AAR is, as pointed out above, his choice of fonts on some his pictures, especially the red coloured type face - I can't make that out at all.

Of course having lost his armour for no gains didn't help but he has been dreadfully unlucky with his PIATs

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"I think many reading this AAR made a huge error in believing you a "bloodthirsty impulsive" who ricocheted from one crisis to another"

And we were wrong?

That remains to be seen. On the one hand, Ken's "forward defense" seems to have discombobulated Bil's attack, keeping in mind that a lot of good generalship consists in manipulating your opponent's psyche to your advantage. On the other, he committed quite a few costly blunders along the way. Whether one outweighs the other is, as I said, to be seen.

Of course having lost his armour for no gains didn't help but he has been dreadfully unlucky with his PIATs

I think a lot of his "luck" with the PIATs was self-inflicted, especially the clean misses. In this war, all handheld AT weapons were pretty close-in weapons, and he has been using them at extreme range where a hit is pretty much left to chance against very long odds. I think the map was against him here as there were not many places where he could have set up ambushes at ranges where the PIAT would be most effective. He really needed some long range AT capability and he lost that early on. But if he managed to bamboozle Bil into holding his armor well back in the final assault on the village where it will be less effective in supporting his infantry, maybe it will all work out somehow in the end.

Michael

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Mr. Emrys,

You are, as always, correct and reasonable in your comments. On the PIAT stuff, I was thinking less of the times C3K's men missed and more of the lack of kills when he did manage to hit. The two strikes on that AA beast and it could function afterwards seemed particularly unfortunate.

I'll also repeat a moan I have expressed many times over the years, that CM gunners seem incapable of learning from the fall of their shot. Time after time I see a round go over or under then the next shot at the same unmoving target goes further over or falls even shorter. Drives me up the wall.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Gents,

An update: Bil (who has had real-life intervene in dramatic fashion), would like to continue this battle. He has stated that, time permitting, he will get back on it, shortly.

This is great news. Now my Hunting Jeep can go on safari and bag that nasty Jaggie! My prowling PIAT can kill that Lucky Panther! My marksmen can kill more of his machinegunners! My No. 4 Platoon can sate their insatiable desire to find out what the inside of a windmill looks like!

Bil will never gain the town. Never, I say!

Ken out.

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You're counting on by the time play resumes you will be able to burn it to the ground, right?

Michael

Ahh, the long awaited "Fire Patch"? Alas, but Bil and are locked into this particular battle in a pre-release form, so I cannot hope for burning flames of purity to immolate my enemy!

Without getting into too many details, this version has differences from the release version. Overall, I fear the balance of those changes may've benefited me more than they helped Bil.

Ken

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