Operational Level Game Announcement

[choppinlt]

Hello, my name is Matt and I have a concept designed for an operational level WWII war game that can use tactical games (like CM) to resolve tactical battles that develop in my game called Combat Operations: Overlord (COO). I have been in contact with BFC for several months and they know I am “pimping” my project on their forum. Hopefully that gives you a certain level of confidence in what I am about to propose. BFC has no current designs on developing an operational level game, and they tell me they are not interested in taking a risk in COO till it is further developed. BFC also wants some indication that it will be a somewhat profitable venture. So if the CM community (and hopefully a greater market) desires an operational level game that can be used with tactical games, this has got to be a grass roots movement. I have a game design, but I am not a computer programmer/mobile developer. Nor do I have large amounts of personal wealth that can be spent to fund a project. That is where we all as a community will have to band together in order to make it happen.

Here is what I am proposing:

I am being “guided” towards developing COO as a mobile app. As the game name would imply, I will start off with June-August in Normandy ’44. If you are a computer programmer or mobile app developer and you are interested in participating in this project, please send me a list of verifiable qualifications to cmbnrocks@gmail.com. For the rest of you, we will need financial backing. At some point I will notify you all that I am going to post a project on Kickstarter to solicit funding for this project. For those of you unfamiliar I would invite you to check out more on kickstarter.com. Once the game gets developed (and if it appears to gain solid support) BFC tells me that they will strongly consider pursuing versions of the game that will be more integrated in to CM. If you are interested in seeing this project succeed, please join the forum I have set up to further discuss my project: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/combat-operations-overlord-game-group

Key Game Points and Features

• Initially this game will be strictly independent of CM. The game will ALWAYS be a standalone game, but my eventual goal is to allow it to interface with CMBN (similar to what CMC attempted in 2005)
  
• COO players will receive data from my game that can be used to manually set up a CM battle they wish to fight out. Otherwise battles can be fought quickly using an in-game battle resolution system
  
• If battles are fought using CM, results will be entered manually back in to my game, and play will continue
  
• Players would command anywhere from Regimental size to multiple Corps or troops
  
• Unit size is primarily Battalion, with some Company sized units.
  
• Players would issue orders to their forces during a game pause using a “wego” style of play
  
• Multiplayer
  
• A fully functional Scenario Editor would be included

In conclusion, please help get the word out regarding this project so we can generate enough excitement to make this project a reality. The support from the CM community will make or break this project, so I hope you will consider supporting this effort. And finally, please join my forum listed above for further discussion.

Thanks,

Matt

[sburke]

cool, applied to join group

[iMolestCats]

Applied, sounds pretty cool.

[Canada Guy]

I have funded kookier ventures on Kickstarter and I have not yet been disappointed yet (though some have taken longer than I wished)

Give us a shout when it is up on KS and you can have some support.

[mjkerner]

Excellent, I'd go for it!

[choppinlt]

Remember though, we need to make some noise and tell everyone else about it. Help me get the word out so this project doesn't die!

[permanent666]

the thing about manual setting up the battles is really disappointing. I think there would be overwhelming support for a game which is able to interact with cm. I am still dreaming about a strategic layer for cm like in close combat games.

I am not a programmer but maybe you know how much time and effort it would cost to make at least the aar data and core unit data accessible for third party software.

[choppinlt]

permanent666, that too has been my dream. However I have been in discussion with BFC for over a year and this is where we are at. We are working towards your dream, but this is a first step. I can't say this enough...if my project receives enough support/interest, then your dream will most likely become a reality.

[iMolestCats]

I'll fork over a hefty sum of money just to see this succeed! I've also let some friends know about this. I am very excited for this.

[choppinlt]

I'll fork over a hefty sum of money just to see this succeed! I've also let some friends know about this. I am very excited for this.

Great to hear! I hope there are several more out there that feel the same way!!

[mjkerner]

I'm headed over to the Few Good Men site to get the word out. You might want to put a message there too, choppinit.

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/

[choppinlt]

I'm headed over to the Few Good Men site to get the word out. You might want to put a message there too, choppinit.

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/

This is perfect! We need to keep passing the word! There are several forums that would be great to post at, but I need everyone's help to know which ones.

[Erwin]

Great news. Hope this works. Using the Tiller games seems to be a lot of extra work.

[poesel]

[*]If battles are fought using CM, results will be entered manually back in to my game, and play will continue

Do you have some word from BFC that, if this project flies, they will create an interface so that games can be set up automatically?

Because even the prospect of that happening would be enough for me to support your project. Else not so much. There are currently at least two efforts I know of to connect an external OP level game (one with John Tiller games and one with Vassal) with CM. Add to that various manual systems and rule sets.

So without a better connection to CM where is the advantage of your program?

[Strachwitz]

Sounds interesting and I also would like to "spend" some money on this one as soon the project kicks off.

[Fizou]

Very interesting. I will follow the development. It would be great with some sort of official respons from BFC to this thread to support their view of the project. And as poesel71 writes.. It would be great to know more about the program itself and what advantage it has over other "manual" efforts to get an op layer to CM.

[Fenris]

I am being “guided” towards developing COO as a mobile app.

Does this mean an app for tablet/smart phones, not PC?

-F

[The Steppenwulf]

Do you have some word from BFC that, if this project flies, they will create an interface so that games can be set up automatically?

Because even the prospect of that happening would be enough for me to support your project. Else not so much. There are currently at least two efforts I know of to connect an external OP level game (one with John Tiller games and one with Vassal) with CM. Add to that various manual systems and rule sets.

So without a better connection to CM where is the advantage of your program?

Exactly!!

@chopinIt

Does an acute understanding of the fundamental issue for any 3rd party campaign design count as 'qualification'?!?!:

Unless you have collabaration from BF regarding release of the algorithm for decompression of the .btt data, or have independently cracked the compression method, then it's impossible to seamlessly interface data between CM battles and any 3rd party software (application of Japanzers scripts aside, which would still hit certain boundaries in any case and therefore cannot be termed seamless either).

Anything less than direct access to decryption relies on an awkward fudge in functionality between the op layer and the CM scenario editor. As Poesel71 has already pointed out, there are some very experienced CM game designers already operating their own campaigns and rule sets within these compromises. Any 'new design' cannot circumvent this fundamental problem.

Now if BF agree to release such a decryption function then I want to know about it!!

[IanL]

Having CM provide an interface to allow it to be tied to an operational layer is something I would really like. I have to be honest though I have a few concerns about this project.

Here is what I am proposing:

I am being “guided” towards developing COO as a mobile app. As the game name would imply, I will start off with June-August in Normandy ’44. If you are a computer programmer or mobile app developer and you are interested in participating in this project, please send me a list of verifiable qualifications to cmbnrocks@gmail.com.

Can you provide veritable qualifications for your game design chops? I ask this because there are three other operational layer on to of CM schemes already actually happening. One with an existing computer game. One with a game design tool box. And I forget about the first one. All three have actually conducted games and CM battles. Those three are all quite a few steps ahead of where you are.

For the rest of you, we will need financial backing. At some point I will notify you all that I am going to post a project on Kickstarter to solicit funding for this project. For those of you unfamiliar I would invite you to check out more on kickstarter.com.

I am certainly not against this - I have funded a useful kickstarter project in the past. It seems like a good way to get things done. However I submit that there is little point unless the design of the CM integration is part of this up front.

Once the game gets developed (and if it appears to gain solid support) BFC tells me that they will strongly consider pursuing versions of the game that will be more integrated in to CM.

Here lies my biggest problem. Given that there are already three operational layers out there working right now that have no integration support for connecting to CM, why add a fourth one? xkcd Standards

The only reason I can see this being worthwhile is if you can - from the start - have integration with CM. By that I mean automatically handling the order of battle both directions and the creation of the initial turns from the operational game. Otherwise you are just creating another operational game - yawn.

It is a bit of a catch 22. BFC have said they don't want to divert resources to supporting something that is not proven. Many of us who would be interested in playing CM integrated with an operational layer have little patience for spending the time it takes to manually modify orders of battle back and forth to spend a lot of time playing this way.

Kick starter might be a good way to break the catch 22. But I will say it again there is little point unless the project includes resources for BFC to actually do the work to support their half.

[easytarget]

Does this mean an app for tablet/smart phones, not PC?

-F

This to me makes the entire project a non-starter.

[noob]

Great news. Hope this works. Using the Tiller games seems to be a lot of extra work.

The only "extra work" needed to be done using the Panzer Campaigns games is learning how to play PzC , getting familiar with the CM scenario editor, and reading my CMPzC guide. Transferring data from PzC to CM is easy. Applying data from the CM battle is also easy, the only "work" part is counting casualties. However, if COO can remove some of the manual tasks that CMPzC demands, I would happily fund it. But if the manual side is similar, then it would be difficult to adopt it, considering that Tiller games cover nearly every major theatre of WW2.

[Erwin]

Uh, yeah... That's wot I meant lol...

[noob]

Uh, yeah... That's wot I meant lol...

lol.........

[kipanderson]

Matt, hi,

I am in... .

BTW. Those criticizing COO for not “automatically....” setting up battles need to remember that this is a trick still far beyond CMX2 in any form even in the hands of BFC. Quick Battles have pre-programmed/built maps and AI and still have a very limited ability. Those wishing for a fully automated interaction between an operational game and CM need to be aware that the CM battles resulting would very low quality. Even if the game were taken on by BFC and CMX2 heavily tweaked to enable this.

If you wish for a quality CM battle some form of editing/setup by a player or game umpire is unavoidable.

An operational game as described in Key Game Features would transform CM .

Good luck will follow with interest,

All the best,

Kip.

[M1 Garand]

So to put it simply, this works like how Close Combat has a Campaign/Operation mode? Just more in-depth?