German invasion of Norway

[Sharkman]

This is somthing that has allways bothered me. Why is it so easy for the Germans to take Norway. I usually use 2 Corps to land at Oslo and have the airborne unit at Copenhagen just in case somthing goes wrong. This means that I have previously occupied Denmark. This is a no risk Operation. Norway would not have surrendered if the Germans just occupied Oslo. I think an occupation of Denmark would have resulted in some Kind of mobilization in Norway and possibly even diplomatic problems with the iron ore shipments. The Germans did succeed in Norway but lost about half of their operational surface fleet. There was a substantial occupation force nessecary in Norway (this is completly free in the game and are magicaly teleported to Bergen and Narvik). The allies also got one of the largest merchant marine fleets in the world from Norway, which is probably allready figured into the british economy in the game. One Change could be to place a Corps in Oslo if denmark is occupied by the Germans, and have it build up and dig in each turn afterward. Or maybe make it very unlikely that Norway will surrender on the same turn that the Germans occupy just Olso, giving the allies time to send troops to Norway. Or have a good Chance that the Norwegian garrisons of Bergen and Narvik become Partisans, and if Narvik is occupied by allied troops or norwegian Partisans, the decision to give the northern mines to Sweden should be delayed until the Germans take Narvik.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Sharkman,

I think at one time we did have a stronger Corps unit in Oslo and often we found it too difficult to dislodge unless you just had the right combat rolls.

It was sometimes a 50/50 chance and this required the German player to bring in much more than what would typically needed for the assault just to be on the safe side. This was also even more of an issue for the AI.

For Narvik and the other towns away from Oslo, after years of play balance testing, we arrived at the current solution which not only helps the AI but also in multiplayer games. One gamey tactic was simply for the Allied player to anticipate a Norwegian invasion and park a ready to land amphibious unit to take Narvik before the Germans would have much of a chance to do anything about it.

We realize that having a good fight for Norway, at land and at sea, including the possibility of Allied landings in the north, would be closer to historical but in game play terms it always ended with a clear advantage to the Allies with very little that the Axis could do about it.

It might not be a perfect solution but considering the time frame for Denmark, Norway and then the subsequent invasion of the Low Countries and France it has almost become a necessary evil for maintaining play balance as we unfortunately found there was very little chance for the Axis player to take all of Norway effectively otherwise.

Hubert

[crispy131313]

I also came to the same conclusion that an attack on Norway was too easy and not time sensitive. The Germans could attack Norway prior to the fall of France or afterwards it seems to make almost no difference. To help represent the extra costs of attacking the Norwegian coastline I use a decision event to represent the planning and execution the attack on Norway which reads as follows:

Mein Führer, our Supply shipments from Norway could be threatened by the UK who may make a move to secure Norway and cut off our convoys. It is suggested we move quickly to garrison the country. We have devised a plan to move some units secretly into the Norwegian Sea to garrison the coast if we are successful in an attack on Oslo. Mein Führer, should we prepare the coastal garrisons so they are ready when we attack Oslo? Cost 20 MPP at 3 Turns.

This helps represent the extra efforts needed to properly occupy Norway as the Germans. However it still does not represent the time sensitive nature of the operation. So knowing that the Allies in real life had considered occupying Norway to cut off the convoy's, the UK is offered a similar decision:

An Allied Invasion of Norway would be instrumental in cutting off supply shipments to Germany. However there are certain to be diplomatic consequences of such an invasion. If we proceed, we should begin to make preparations to garrison the coast to ward off German interference during our occupation of the country. To be successful in an attack it is paramount that we capture Oslo. If Oslo is captured we will have the garrisons ready to capture the Norwegian coastline. Should we have the coastal garrisons on standby for an attack on Norway? Cost 20 MPP for 3 turns.

Additionally, the Allied AI will occupy Norway (If the AI selected Yes) in the same fashion as the German AI will in some time in the early summer of 1940. When playing the as the Germans, the attack on Norway now is not only more costly, but also a priority.

[Sharkman]

I knew this answer was comming, and you are right. Problems in Norway would probably ruin Play Balance. I would like to see more randomness in minor Country ops as a whole though, if you Play a few times, you know pretty much where the Units will be and how strong. It would be a nice Option to have the minors a bit more unpredictable. But at least the Germans should have to pay for the 2 garrisons in Norway. In the game I'm playing now the airborne unit failed to take Oslo on his own, so there is allready a Chance of failure if you use just the airborne unit.

[Hubert Cater]

Those are some great DECISION events crispy131313 and with your permission I'd consider incorporating them within AoD

[crispy131313]

That sounds great Hubert.

[mcaryf1]

I can offer you an alternate suggestion which I am putting into my AOD variant scenario with more loops. If you set up loops from the Baltic to the coast of North Norway and arrange it so the German (amphibious) units emerge with surprise (delay =1) then you can pretty well emulate the actual German surprise attack on Norway but the Allies would still have an opportunity to hit back which they did in real life or even pre-empt with an invasion of their own in which case the German unit could still use the loop but to try to reinforce Norway.

To make it more sophisticated it is possible to give the Baltic loop 3 entrances and make it only operate if all 3 were occupied (you can do this with a DE). This would effectively require the Germans to send one or two naval units to escort the amphibious one(s) unless they wanted to spend rather more MPP and more land units on the Northern attack by using 3 amphibious units.

Regards

Mike

[TaoJah]

The disadvantage when you take Norway, is that it is VERY easy for the allies to sneak in a corps in one of the coastal cities. So, you got to defend them. And not just with garrisons, probable with divisions, divisions that you can't use anywhere else.

Yes, it is easy to take Norway. But you pay alot to keep those MPPs throughout the game. I don't think that in the long run, Norway is worth it.