Guest John Maragoudakis Posted April 25, 1999 Share Posted April 25, 1999 Just finished a tough scenario in Total Annihilation. Luckily, TA allows you to pause the action to give orders and scroll the screen. This is as close as TA gets to simultaneous turns, (you can also slow down the game). What a differance it makes to stop the action so I can give orders in peace. The cpu doesn't have a chance. The simultaneous turns of CM are really going to make it tough for the cpu to beat us. The fact that the cpu is fast is moot.(unless a timer is used, hehe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 25, 1999 Share Posted April 25, 1999 BTS, I think John might have a great idea here. What about adding a timer? Chess, for example, is a totally different game when the players turns/moves are time limited. I think it would add a totally different, and quite valuable, dimension to CM as well. It would not only level the playing field when going up against the computer AI, but would also prevent players from taking all day to plot their moves and issue orders to their troops in head-to-head play. In addition it would add another dimension to what the real battle field commander faces in having to issue orders and cope with a situation in a much more realistic manner. Those guys out there didn’t have all day to order their troops around, why should we arm chair generals be given the luxary? As far as implementing something like this it should be totally optional. If the player(s) want to use it great, if not just turn it off. The timing factor could be set to scale to the scenario’s initial number of units per side, or some other way to insure scalability with varying size scenarios. Alternately, the time limit for issuing orders, etc., could be set by the scenario designer, or perhaps even the players themselves could choose from a set of time limit choices (eg, between say 3 min. and 10 min). The time limit and countdown could be displayed somewhere on the orders screen once the player, or players, decide to proceed with the next turn (I’m assuming that the orders phase won’t start until the player, or both players, hit a button to proceed in order to allow time for the player(s) to replay the video playback from the turn just executed, review their troops status, etc.) Trust me, I’m not suggesting turning CM into Command and Conquer Mission, or any sort of real time game. I think that would be a very big mistake. However, I think limiting the time the player(s) have to issue orders to their troops before the next 60 seconds of the game are resolved would add a great deal of depth, challenge, and exitement to what already promises to be a great game. What do you think? Mike D. aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted April 25, 1999 Share Posted April 25, 1999 Mike, a timer *is* a good idea. That's why CM *already* has one,(I believe so). I wasn't suggesting adding a timer,(I knew there was one already). My point is that I think that the cpu AI is no match for a human in a simultaneous turn based mode,(we'll see). I'm not putting the cpu down, just glad the day has come where the table is even. Funny, I can't say that about chess. You get all the time in the world but a cpu can definately beat you.Wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 25, 1999 Share Posted April 25, 1999 If the timer is in there already that's great. I just hope it is optional, not mandated, so that if I don't want to play with it on I can. Don't recall BTS saying there would be one, but then there are a lot of things that I seem to miss. Mike D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 CM doesn't have a timer yet, but one is very much part of the design. This is the kind of feature that will be added along with general prefs a little later on. Basically, the game creator (1 or 2 players) chooses how many minutes are allowed for plotting. These will be preset values like 5,10,20 mins. Setup will probably either be unlimited, or perhaps we can have a setting for that too. Not sure... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 I'd prefer optional user-selectable timings. That way players can adjust handicapping - a good player might pick a five minute orders phase, but give a less skilled opponent 15 minutes. Equally, if the players want open-ended planning times, let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 Hadn't thought of having different timer values for each side. Not sure how many people would use it, but it is a good idea. We will keep it in mind. Forgot to mention that of course the timer is optional. However, if you have ever played multiplayer you will probably want SOME kind of timer If I had a dime for every game I doped off on while waiting for the other side... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>However, if you have ever played multiplayer you will probably want SOME kind of timer. If I had a dime for every game I doped off on while waiting for the other side...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, yeah. I played a game of TacOps on a LAN with a friend. Great guy, but the micromanager-from-hell; 15-20 minutes of plotting for each 60 second turn. This after about an hour or so setting up. I started playing another game in the background. Saddest thing of all was he still got stomped. I'll never forget his assault humvees charging my T80s. "Detailed" doesn't necessarily mean "better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 Are you sure the humvees knew the T-80's were there? Maybe they ran into them...by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 That's been the standard excuse for lousy commanders since the invention of the wooden club. The other ones realized the value of good battlefield intelligence and scouted ahead. That reminds me of a stupid guy I played CC3 against the other day. We had the timer set to 20min (just enough to keep me from being slow)and I was on the attack. I set up my force divided into one major and a minor portion, both consisting mainly of armor and a single commander. Both my forces were waiting behind some ridges while my light infantry scouted ahead. A minute went by, and the crawling infantry had yet to discover anything. Then this guy starts messaging me and asking me to hurry up, urging me to do something. I told him I was scouting (now 2mins had passed by). Then he says that he has to quit and doesn't have time for this scouting crap. He goes on to insult me for being a &%#/ moron for waisting his time and that scouting was for [insert demeaning vernacular for female genitalia here]. Then he broke the connection. I don't know how old he was but he'll get stomped every time with an attitude like that. Maybe your friend was of the same opinion? Sten [This message has been edited by Sten (edited 04-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 26, 1999 Share Posted April 26, 1999 This is the problem with non-military minded people playing wargames (realtime or otherwise). Most of warfare consists of careful planning and being patient. If you want "tank rushes" then play C&C and leave wargaming alone... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted April 27, 1999 Share Posted April 27, 1999 Depends on what the guy with the humvees intended. The hummers are fast. If they were armed with tows, perhaps a quick dash to an advantageous spot might be worth the risk. Remember, you're half dead if the enemy scoots around to your escape route and waits for you to retreat. However, all tactics will depend on how our virtual lads react... [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 04-27-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted April 28, 1999 Share Posted April 28, 1999 As long as we're off-topic, I may as well flesh out the story. My friend was a battalion sized US light infantry taks force - not much in the way of armor, and the humvees were armed with TOWs. His mission was to defend against an OPFOR motorised rifle regiment - 3 battalions of BMPs and a T80 tank battalion. Now, given the OPFOR's mission was to exit to the west, and given that he knew this, and given that he had about 6 km of terrain behind the MRL, I think it might have been wiser to wait just a little bit. (If nothing else it would have prevented him from advancing his units on the other flank into his own minefields. He was new to the game system, and presumed - incorrectly - that there would be lanes for friendly vehicles.) Lest it seem like I'm just bagging the guy, we've been friends since we met at a university wargaming club 25 years ago. In that first meeting we played a WWI naval battle, and after about 30 minutes of manuevering he crossed my "T" and shattered my fleet in 5 minutes. (It was actually very cool to watch, although it would have been cooler if I wasn't on the soggy end of the action...) He's at his best at naval games. God forbid I should ever have to face him in Harpoon. Now can we get back to blowing up panzers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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