Gustav Kiwi Soldiers scenario: i need help

[usgubgub]

Thanks for the advice, Zebulon Pleasure Beast II.

I must still be doing something wrong because, having tried 5 times, my results are still poor. I can't seem to get the level of suppression for the FJs in the station. At least one of the supporting sections always gets shredded, and the HQ doesn't make it through the door.

I have a few questions:

What setting do you use for the barrage? I spread it over time to account for the smoke of the 2" taking time to deploy, so I use light. Do you get better results with medium? Heavy would just be over too quickly. Or do you spread it over longer with harass?

Where do you deploy the assaulting sections to? I send the one with the PIAT to the shell holes between the tracks just after the first bend, the other to the ones on the track before the bend. The PIAT section always gets shredded before they reach their destination, either by the FJs if I wait or by stray mortar rounds if I get there sooner.

Which door does the assault HQ use to get in? I have tried the one facing the tracks, the one between the two buildings getting into the first buiding from either side and the one facing the farm, it doesn't seem to make a difference. Do you send them straight in or give them a waypoint just outside and then inside?

[ZPB II]

That is strange. Do you use area fire at all? I use area fire very liberally. When moving to the station I have 2 sections pouring out nonstop area fire into the central building where the FJ are, while the rest area fire the LMG team and what is left of the sniper.

The 81mm barrage is either a point target into the central building or a linear that hits all 3, the accuracy and results are usually similar. Heavy/Maximum. The light mortar shoots direct with a Target Smoke command right in front of the LMG.

My sections are situated on top of the tracks, one in the bend and the other right next to it, towards my starting location. Stray mortar rounds almost never reach the farthest tracks.

The breaching HQ team inches it's way to a waypoint next to the wall between the central and closest building, then enters the closest one from the door facing the tracks. I do not lift the area fire until the men are inside the closest building.

I have several illustrative pictures but I am having trouble uploading them. I will do a video if I manage to acquire a quality microphone.

[usgubgub]

Ok, so I should ignore cover and keep the covering sections on the tracks, where they might be safe from strays. I use area fire. I give the fire order attached to their last way-point when the view is still clear, so as soon as they get into position they can fire whether smoke from the barrage blocks the view or not.

I'll give it another try.

[usgubgub]

Ok, I don't understand, the timings simply don't work.

A barrage on heavy is over in 30 seconds. My 2" will not in any circumstance begin firing smoke until one minute has elapsed from giving the order. He must want a fag first or something.

A barrage on light takes 90 seconds to complete. By that time the smoke is only just beginning to cover the view of the FJ MG, so there is no time to deploy. The sections take ages to reach their positions, even on fast. Rounds do fall near enough to cause them casualties to them as they are deploying and when they are in position.

Delaying the barrage for five minutes gives more flexibility, but still to get the HQ close enough before the barrage stops I have got it hit by strays 3 times out of 5. Oh, and the sniper took out my radioman once, so there was no barrage. ????

[black_prince]

After reading some of the comments on here I decided to have a crack at this myself. Unfortunately, I've gotten no further than the briefing screen-every time I try to play the mission the game crashes (I've attempts about half a dozen times). I haven't had this problem with any other battle I've tried to play so far. Anyone else encounter this problem?

[Buzz]

Thanks JonS for a great tiny CQB.

Zeb's suggestions are sound.

I just got NZ TV in RT = 500 to 25 points - 12 minutes left on the clock.

Ground & Targets secured.

NZ 25 OK

3 Killed

2 Wounded

*** Spoilers ***

Take out the farm 1st.

Area fire & Smoke the track side of the train station.

Gather 2 Sections & HQ near train station.

Toss smoke.

Assault farm side of train station.

Kill all but 1 surrender in train station.

Move to farm and secure ground with 2 remanning adversaries overcome.

Sleep well:D

[usgubgub]

Ok, this method works better. 8 minutes into the fight I have taken out the sniper and the Lmg in the farm. So far I have 1 wounded. I put all the brens in the farmhouse on two floors and they duked it out with the FJs in the other farm. I had to expend all the 2" HE to take out the sniper, and some smoke rounds to allow a section to deploy in the gap between Perano farm and the station from where they were able to finish off the LMG.

Now I am off to lunch. Later I will get on with assaulting the station. It is a really subtle scenario where the obvious isn't the route to go, and patience pays off.

[usgubgub]

*** ---- Spoiler ---***

It was intense and great fun finishing this fight. I got waylaid again because I insisted in using the 81mm barrage to add to the suppression on the FJs in the station. This always resulted in friendly fire casualties and perky unsuppressed FJs.

On my last attempt, I left the barrage out. I guess its best use is in the early firefight with the Lmg and the sniper up at the farm.

I moved two sections (1 with the PIAT and 2) into position in the shell holes on and between the tracks. I gave them their fast move and area fire into middle station building orders when the building was still clear and held them with the pause button. Then I fired the remaining 2" smoke rounds to cover their deployment.

When the smoke was in position I released the two sections. They deployed and started immediately firing into the smoke. I lost one guy in the 1st section once the smoke cleared to a grenade, but the automatic weapons were silent.

I rushed the third section and the HQ on the right hand side, detaching the Bren and stopping it in position to give covering fire. I lost two guys as the assault party approached, but the others fired back and the FJ scouts guarding that side stopped firing.

The HQ then entered the first building and fired into the middle one, killing all remaining FJs. Only one made it out. At this point the AI asked for a cease-fire. Total Victory, 500 to 14, 4 casualties.

This is a great little scenario to learn how to properly fight a platoon battle. Thank you, JonS for creating the scenario and thank you, Buzz, for the advice.

[A Canadian Cat]

When the smoke was in position I released the two sections. They deployed and started immediately firing into the smoke.

Now that is a cool idea: setup the movement and area fire orders before the smoke mission and hold everything on pause. Then once the smoke is in place let them go. Very cool. I did not think there was anyway to get guys to fire into smoke. I will have to try this for sure.

[Buzz]

"This is a great little scenario to learn how to properly fight a platoon battle."

Glad to help usgubgub

Sometimes immense pleasure is intimate and up close. JonS has demonstrated this with a tiny infantry scenario. I truly enjoy such tiny battles as well.

One of the great attributes of CM2 games is the vast range of what the game allows. WWII Platoon level challenge to Modern Armor KM(s) size battle fields.

[weta_nz]

Hey,

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead...but... if like me you never did figure out how to win this scenario - I found an excellent youtube 'tutorial' for this scenario. Very informative

Big thanks to Peter if he frequents these forums.

[AlexUK]

****Spoilers****

Just had a go, third time through did it with one casualty.

Got everyone out of sight at start apart from HQ unit, with covered arc, spotted snipers quickly. Called artillery on the snipers. Then used smoke to get to side of train buildings. Area fired into first building for some time (lots of ammo), then threw smoke into building and stormed, area fired next building along etc. Then lined up the brens to take out the LMG. Surrender.

Squad smoke key to this one.

Great mission.

[LukeFF]

I finally cracked this one! Yay! (And no reloaded saves either!) Here's how I did it (in Real-Time mode):

-I sent my Green section to the farmhouse and split them up so that the Bren and a rifleman were on the top floor with the FO team, and the rest of the section was sent to the bottom floor. All units, including the FO, were put on Hide orders for the moment.

-The FO team targeted the center building of the railway station with a maximum length, max rate-of-fire 81mm bombardment, with a 5-minute delay to allow the rest of my infantry to get into position on the far side of the farmhouse's wall.

-As the mortar barrage was coming to an end, I had my light mortar team lay down a smokescreen that would hopefully blind the Germans up on the hill and any left in the train station. At the same time I un-hid my section in the farmhouse and let them fire as they saw fit.

-It wasn't pretty, but the first section into the train station cleared out most of the remaining enemy. I then pushed another section up to the station to help clean up.

-All the meanwhile, the Bren and rifle teams in the farmhouse successfully engaged the Germans up on the hill. The 2-man Bren team singlehandedly took out both the sniper team and the MG42 team.

-As I was moving my other mean to clear out the station, I received notice with 29:35 left that the Germans had surrendered. The only Germans left standing were the 2-man platoon HQ team at the top of the hill. The rest were all dead or wounded.

The final stats:

[Erwin]

Man that video was strange. What did we learn? Mass your guys and run em all everywhere till tired in one big group straight into the enemy positions like a mass of tribal warriors.

And another good example of why RT play is so unrealistic.

[LukeFF]

Man that video was strange. What did we learn? Mass your guys and run em all everywhere till tired in one big group straight into the enemy positions like a mass of tribal warriors.

Apparently you didn't pay attention to the whole video.

And another good example of why RT play is so unrealistic.

Yeah, us RT players are such gamey bastages who never use real-world tactics.

[Erwin]

Yes, it's helpful to be able to change orders instantly for every unit on the map heh. But, I still like you, Luke. So, no worries...

[Vinnart]

. Has anyone played this one as ALLIES and won? What are the proper tactics?

It's a tricky one, but it took me about 3 tries to win it. I have a diagram of the plan I used if anyone wants I'll post it. There is also a movie a dude named Peter has on youtube of his plan that won it for him. He has a thread on here of it, so do a search. Interestingly my plan, and his were different, but both won it in our own way. There is more than one way to win it, but the mortar smoke, piat, and timing are the key.

[LukeFF]

There is more than one way to win it, but the mortar smoke, piat, and timing are the key.

I would say smoke and timing for certain, but the PIAT is optional. The PIAT in my winning attempt written about above did absolutely nothing during the mission.

[Vinnart]

For the plan I used the piat was instrumental for the win. I used smoke to get the squad with the piat to the low wall by the farm on the hill. From there I area fired on the station getting a hit that routed the Germans. They ran out the back into a squad behind the high wall of compound that was about to attack the rail station from the rear and were cut down, or ran to the side of the station.

After the station was secured I ran the piat back to it to area fire on the farm softening it up for the final assault.

[LukeFF]

Well, I have to say it was entertaining seeing ChrisND get humbled over and over again yesterday playing this scenario.

[weta_nz]

Just by chance I played this scenario again recently and finally got a total victory with 6 KIA and 0 wounded. Which I think is about as good as I can do in this scenario. I reckon my tactics have gotten better by playing more infantry battles in Red Thunder. I definitely used a lot more crawling and suppression then I used too when I first tried this battle.

[Doug Williams]

I've never beaten it and I've tried at least six times. This thread makes me want to have another go, however.

[DavidFields]

With the 3.0 engine upgrade, I thought I would try a CMFI/Gustav battle. I hardly played the series--the posts on the board about the campaigns seemed disheartening.

So, I picked the smallest battle, which was this one.......seemed familiar from the boards....searched and found this thread, and once again railed at the marketing issue of having a new, or relatively new, person try the series and run into something like this.

"Teaching someone how to lose" is a poor, in my opinion, business strategy. It accounts for, in my opinion, the initial flurry of forum posts when a new module comes out, then some posts on "challenging", "great, challenging battle" posts, then....silence, and very few battles talked about on the forum. Because, I will posit, after the incredibly hard "challenge" people either rage-quit, or rationally decide that such brutality is unfun. I consider this series the heir to PanzerBlitz/ASL/CC/CM1, and attracting 16-30 year old gamers would seem to be important. Thus one would have fun, easy, initial battles, and then lure people into learning WW2 tactics and history. If that is not important to BFC, I respect that judgment.

But......I did enjoy seeing that artillery is now not "sniping". That spreads for 81 mm are more like 100 meters rather than 10 meters. And the MG fire feels better.

Not that I came close to winning this scenario...yet...or probably never.

And I don't like the CMSF like walls around the farm. I have been to Italy--it does not look like Bagdad (since, among other things, the Ottomans did not succeed in taking Vienna in the 1600s).

But it raises this issue to me: since so much about the engine has changed since CMBN 1.0, and I am thinking about the under the hood stuff, wouldn't it be reasonable to have the battles/campaigns updated, as a decisive issue, to reflect these changes. This, it seems to me, is more important to pay for than a battle pack--and I would pay. Otherwise, they are useless, and all the play-testing that went into them deceptively unhelpful.

[Tempestzzzz]

After about 10 tries, my solution involved the scenario editor and an M7.

About 8 tries for me then I called in a engineers with satchel charges and a Staghound Mk II via the editor.

We didn't take any prisoners.

[A Canadian Cat]

About 8 tries for me then I called in a engineers with satchel charges and a Staghound Mk II via the editor.

We didn't take any prisoners.

You changed the conditions of the test eh? Promotion for you then:D