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Mine Spotting


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Yes, but gamewise it's somewhat unbalancing... AT mines cost what, 10, 20 points ? Yet with those 20ish points you can easily blow up a 200 points tank.

Now, AP mines I don't really mind, they're just an "upgraded wire" if you want, but AT mines are just...unfair !

("Sir, sir ! The ennemy is occupying strong defensive positions up the hill, we spotted at least 3 bunkers, a dozen machine gun nests, and a trench system with wire and AT mines, SIR !"

"AT mines, Simmkins ? THAT'S COMPLETELY UNFAIR ! Radioman, get me the War Referee this minute !")

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Originally posted by Kobal2:

Yes, but gamewise it's somewhat unbalancing... AT mines cost what, 10, 20 points ? Yet with those 20ish points you can easily blow up a 200 points tank.

Now, AP mines I don't really mind, they're just an "upgraded wire" if you want, but AT mines are just...unfair !

("Sir, sir ! The ennemy is occupying strong defensive positions up the hill, we spotted at least 3 bunkers, a dozen machine gun nests, and a trench system with wire and AT mines, SIR !"

"AT mines, Simmkins ? THAT'S COMPLETELY UNFAIR ! Radioman, get me the War Referee this minute !")

Perhaps you have not experienced the effect of properly deployed trenches....talk about unfair :mad:

Only 15 points and there is little chance that they,like AT mines,can be rendered useless by being avoided.

[ June 07, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: no_one ]

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At least trenches I can deal with properly...AT mines I can only detect by using Armored Cars set to recon_by_explosion smile.gif

@junk2 : not would be, *might* be. And you could lower their price too, if they could be found by infantry. Even when found, they can't be cleared except by Engineer squads (which are not that common), so they're still an efficient way of blocking an axis of attack, even when/if spotted, aren't they ?

IMHO, mines were never meant to be that "dangerous" - they were meant to be a dissuasion/time-waster, not a "real" weapon, weren't they ?

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As I'm not well versed on the Eastern Front, I made a quick Google search on "Kursk mines". Here's what I found :

The original date for the offensive to take place was the 4th May 1943 but Hitler wanted to wait for the new Panther and Elefant tanks to be ready and a series of postponements followed. June 12th was the next scheduled date but the collapse of the African front in Tunisia also delayed the start of the offensive for a further three weeks until July. On the night of the 3rd July German Army sappers cleared and taped paths through some of the minefields, an extremely dangerous business as the ground was full of metal and the readings on detectors went into a frenzy. This meant that the mines had to be prodded with a bayonet and lifted out and made safe by hand. Testimony to the expertise of the GroƟdeutschland engineers was the fact that ten men of the 2nd Engineer Company on the night of the 3rd July lifted and made safe a total of 2,700 mines which worked out at a rate of a mine a minute by each man!
So, I understand there were many mines there, but the text/excerpt above leans into my belief of mines being more of a nuisance/hindrance than a deadly affair.

Or maybe I missed something important ?

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Ask that from my grandfather who stepped into one in 1941. Both legs amputated from knees. Ouch...

Seriously, mines themselves aren't the big problem. Just like a barbed wire obstacle isn't a problem. But clearing an attack route through mines and wire while being shot at is a problem, just as attacking those shooters before the mines and the wire have been cleared. They are not only meant to slow you down nor to kill you, but to slow you down so that you can be killed. They're also great for spoiling a surprise attack.

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All true. Actually, I've long thought that CM should also have cheaper 'obvious' mines available. Many military minefields are marked as such and have a much bigger deterrant effect than killing. There are some times when I want my opponent to know that one roas is mined so he'll take the other one.

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Originally posted by Kobal2:

As I'm not well versed on the Eastern Front, I made a quick Google search on "Kursk mines". Here's what I found :

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The original date for the offensive to take place was the 4th May 1943 but Hitler wanted to wait for the new Panther and Elefant tanks to be ready and a series of postponements followed. June 12th was the next scheduled date but the collapse of the African front in Tunisia also delayed the start of the offensive for a further three weeks until July. On the night of the 3rd July German Army sappers cleared and taped paths through some of the minefields, an extremely dangerous business as the ground was full of metal and the readings on detectors went into a frenzy. This meant that the mines had to be prodded with a bayonet and lifted out and made safe by hand. Testimony to the expertise of the GroƟdeutschland engineers was the fact that ten men of the 2nd Engineer Company on the night of the 3rd July lifted and made safe a total of 2,700 mines which worked out at a rate of a mine a minute by each man!

So, I understand there were many mines there, but the text/excerpt above leans into my belief of mines being more of a nuisance/hindrance than a deadly affair.

Or maybe I missed something important ? </font>

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Exactly. It's the combination of wire+mines+ennemy fire that is deadly, not mines/wire alone.

Then, why are AT mines that deadly all by themselves ? They always immobilize/KO tanks, whatever the type, why not having them do partial/not KOing penetration, shaking/panicking the crew instead of killing the tank without any way to counter them ?

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(or rather, why are they so fecking unfindable ? I don't mind having to detour my AFVs halfway across the map to dodge one well placed minefield, but losing my only tank (and only assault support of my assault) to a stealth AND lucky minefield bugs me mightily...)

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I have been using 251/1'2 and /2's or Kublewagens to find mines. Also depending on cover my tanks advance through suspected mine areas in single files about 50meters apart. After passing through the assumed mine zones my Tanks form up into attack groups of V and Line abrest.

I also keep Pioneers following nearby to bump forward if needed.

I wish we had mine clearing tanks.

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