Fire discipline? New to CM2

[dwas]

Hello.

Sorry if this is a topic already discussed. I did try to search but failed.

I did play the first version of Combat Mission years ago (all three(?) of them). Now I thought I'd try the new version since I've got a computer capable of running it. I downloaded the demo for CM Battle for Normandy and have played a training mission for some time now to decide if I should buy the full games(s).

My concern is fire discipline. I try to position units in favorable positions to establish fire bases, and what we in sweden call UFA (starting point point for assault). Scout teams are deployed to get some grip of enemy unit locations so the mortars can be used to suppress/eliminate MGs and ATs. But as soon as any unit spots enemy units they reveal their position by firing upon the enemy - sometimes taking what I would call pot shots at distances well beyond reasonable range. For instance infantry units engage a HMG deployed behind a stone wall at a distance of 300 meters without the HMG ever noticing them. Of course, as soon as "my" units fire at it, it becomes aware.

What am I doing wrong? I think I remember a similar problem with CM1 where there was nothing between hide (see nothing) and engage at will.

It's a really cool game and I do like it, but some things did drive me nuts, and perhaps they still would do.

So - is there a way to have better fire discipline? (Using covered arcs etc can perhaps solve this, but I really would like to have a better alternative. Covered arcs pointing away from enemy is just gamey.)

//OBj

[agusto]

So - is there a way to have better fire discipline? (Using covered arcs etc can perhaps solve this, but I really would like to have a better alternative. Covered arcs pointing away from enemy is just gamey.)

//OBj

You dont need the covered arc to point away from the enemy, it just needs to be short enough if you dont want your troops to engage targets beyond a certain distance. IIRC enemy troops inside the orange area will be enagged, everything else will be ignored as long as it doesnt pose a severe threat. If you dont want your arc to point in a specific direction, you can issue a circular arc by pressing the left shift key (i hope that is what you call it in english , its the one above Ctrl with the upwards pointing arrow on it) while issueing the arc.

Alternatively you can use the HIDE command, although there is a big chance that unexperienced troops might break fire discipline with that command if the enemy is close by and units that HIDE also dont spot very well.

[Childress]

So - is there a way to have better fire discipline? (Using covered arcs etc can perhaps solve this, but I really would like to have a better alternative. Covered arcs pointing away from enemy is just gamey.)

//OBj

Why 'away' from the enemy?

Side note: Rifle squads will fire at greater volume given high experience and an HQ in proximity. When they start to run low on ammo they appear to get pickier with their targets.

[womble]

...everything else will be ignored as long as it doesnt pose a severe threat.

I have gained the impression that the further outside the CA the potential threat is, the more severe it has to be for your pTruppen to ignore their fire control orders. An MG just outside a 200m arc, for example, might invoke a breach of fire discipline, where if the shooters had been the same distance from the MG but with a 10m covered arc, they would keep their heads down and just observe.

Covered arcs are very important for controlling your troops, IMO. Generally, my SOP during setup is to give the entire force a 30m circular covered arc, just so I don't miss any observers or scouts or such. Then as I start tasking each element I'll adjust or remove the existing arc.

[Michael Emrys]

Generally, my SOP during setup is to give the entire force a 30m circular covered arc, just so I don't miss any observers or scouts or such. Then as I start tasking each element I'll adjust or remove the existing arc.

Yeah, I can see how that'd work. Thing is, CAs are such an eyesore and can often hide important terrain details that I am deterred from using them in that way.

Michael

[Sublime]

I use CA's all the time. They dont have to be away from the enemy, in fact I prefer my CA's to be towards the enemy so when the enemy enters them he's fired upon, and also so my troops spot the enemy better.

Just use smaller CA's and your troops wont fire, unless they're very green, or conscripts, etc. Then that's just how it is with lousy troops like that.

Often I wont use CA's initially, or I'll double click on my CO HQ unit, (1 battalion hq, or whatever) and set CA's for every unit. Then I'll go to special units, like armor, and either individually cancel their CA's or double click on their HQ and set their own CA's.

Alternately, I'll set NO CA's and only begin to set them with units I intend to scout with, and when I get units definitely close in where I know they'll be in sight of the enemy. Sometimes they dont even get them unless they're packing a zook or piat and then they get an Armor arc.

[Childress]

Yeah, I can see how that'd work. Thing is, CAs are such an eyesore and can often hide important terrain details that I am deterred from using them in that way.

Michael

You're right. The CAs suffer from excessive opacity and cannot, apparently, be modded to a more eye pleasing- and functional- transparency. Setup Zones pose the same visual issues but at least these disappear after Turn 1. Argh! Battlefront!!!

[Childress]

Sometimes they dont even get them unless they're packing a zook or piat and then they get an Armor arc.

It'd be cool if these weapons teams could lose their arcs once they scored a successful hit. And zap the bailing and panicked crew members.

(Does wargaming make one a better person?)

[A Canadian Cat]

And zap the bailing and panicked crew members.

That is what their squad mates are for. I love the hail of bullets and all the ricochets that happen when a full squad opens up after a tank crew bails.

[A Canadian Cat]

I use CA's all the time. They dont have to be away from the enemy, in fact I prefer my CA's to be towards the enemy...

When I use covered arcs I usually use circular ones. I have had men burned too many times by arcs that were just slightly to narrow and so they did not engage the enemy. I switched to circular arcs and presto I am always happy.

Well not always but more often:)

[Sublime]

Yes if its very close in, or tank combat, its either no CA or circular. However, if its an ATG, or if I want troops to face in a different direction than the end of a move order - I'll use a smaller arc. Same also if for example I keyhole an ATG or want to have troops spot/look for long distance targets. I'm not sure if selecting an area with a covered arc does ensure quicker or better spotting, but it seems to make sense...

[womble]

Yeah, I can see how that'd work. Thing is, CAs are such an eyesore and can often hide important terrain details that I am deterred from using them in that way.

Michael

Absolutely agree. I often find myself irritated enough by the arc to delete it while working with a unit and then reinstate it. Really small arcs like you'd give to FOs and HQs aren't a bother, and nor are long, narrow arcs like you give to ATG, but the middling size circular general "stay frosty" arcs are a visual nightmare.

[womble]

I'm not sure if selecting an area with a covered arc does ensure quicker or better spotting, but it seems to make sense...

What I've gathered from BFC replies is that it doesn't, beyond making sure "all eyes" (or at least more eyes) are focused on that area more of the time. I think with ATGs specifically, just because of what they are and how their crew set up, that once the CA is bisected by the axis of the barrel, it's not going to offer a noticeable spotting bonus and its function is effectively reduced to just fire discipline.

Most of the CAs I set are circular, but when you're wanting to use the CA as a Face command as well, it needs to be restricted-angle. Once the Facing is set, though, I'll often replace the "Face Arc" with a circular one.

[Sgt Schultz]

I use them more to focus attention closer, than to prevent fire.

If troops are in the woods, I set arcs that are just outside the general LOS for that area, and send them off to Hunt.

Same for any tall grass or crops. The units are looking close in, not spreading their precious spotting code cycles "looking" out towards the horizon as much.

Arcs are so hideous-looking that they are the LAST order I give to a unit if at all possible.

The worst are chained Hunt commands for armor with different arcs at each waypoint. My eyes... they burn!

[Michael Emrys]

Yeah, CAs at present are really hideous. I'm not sure how much a color change would help, but making them more transparent or just coloring in the perimeter sure would. Maybe a combination of the two: make the area immediately around the unit almost completely invisible, but gaining density toward the edge.

Michael

[agusto]

I would like the ability to toggle wether CAs are displayed or not. That would be a simple and effective solution IMO.

Also maybe the color and transparency of CAs can simple be modded like the rest of the GUI. I mean, if tracers and explosions can be modded, why not CAs? If i will find the time i will maybe see later today if i can do that.

[Vanir Ausf B]

They can't be modded. It that were possible someone would have done it the first week the game was out

[poesel]

You're right. The CAs suffer from excessive opacity and cannot, apparently, be modded to a more eye pleasing- and functional- transparency. Setup Zones pose the same visual issues but at least these disappear after Turn 1. Argh! Battlefront!!!

+10

Transparency, outline, moddable - anything! CAs are the most hideous thing in the game.

[agusto]

They can't be modded. It that were possible someone would have done it the first week the game was out

Hmm. I think that if one would know the exact RGB value the game uses for the covered arcs i would maybe be possible to generate a trainer with CE 6.2 that changes the color and maybe also the transparency.

[Sublime]

Even if BFC mods it themselves. Or changes it permanently. For example the new cover armor arc is way less damaging to the eyes and senses. Maybe a softer, less 'in your face' color and palette?

it's funny, we're a friggin demanding crowd. We'd complain about anything, and everything.

[womble]

Even if BFC mods it themselves. Or changes it permanently. For example the new cover armor arc is way less damaging to the eyes and senses. Maybe a softer, less 'in your face' color and palette?

it's funny, we're a friggin demanding crowd. We'd complain about anything, and everything.

Maybe it's because I have "defective" colour vision, but that magenta wash is at least as bad as the yellow not-Armour-covered arc for me.