CM: Shock Force 2 Wish List

[Whiterider]

About quick battle maps I tend to think the best of them are those that gives a minimun distance between players. In CMX2 I never play quick battles that are basically resolved in turns 1-2. On the other hand in small maps enemy troops start very close one from another at the beguining. Perhaps initial deployment area should be shorter. Sometimes even medium maps are solved in two turns (plains, no cover, etc.). Hope Battlefront would consider about it.

To choose a good map in quick battles requires some time and experience.

[Buzz]

"..the best of them are those that gives a minimun distance between players.."

In CMSF Modern Infantry alone have weapons that are darn deadly at 300 yards and farther. You need some set up and a bit of maneuver room. Add those and "minimum distance between players" would be at least 500x500 yards.

Add almost any armor that you can reach out and touch 1KM or more.

I suspect CMSF-2 & Black Sea will incorporate all the Editor / QB Map goodness of CMBN/CW - CMFI/GL but the modern settings … at least from my perspective need a larger minimum distance … unless you want to start in a fire fight.

[Vark]

But in reality, most are not that effective over 300m. Ranged infantry combat in SF, for Blue forces, is often too decisive as a result.

[Mord]

I suspect CMSF-2 & Black Sea will incorporate all the Editor / QB Map goodness of CMBN/CW - CMFI/GL but the modern settings … at least from my perspective need a larger minimum distance … unless you want to start in a fire fight.

You can pretty much figure any upgrades/updates to the CMX2 engine will be added to Black Sea and CMSF2 (along with whatever new stuff that has come out by the time they are made). Well, as long as it pertains to the setting. But editor stuff, bridges, water, weather effects, all of that, should come with the engine version automatically, if you go by what Steve has said about keeping the games at the same level of development.

Mord.

[Erwin]

That's a really useful list you compiled Buzz. However, it's an overwhelming amount of items. It would be good to put them in order of importance in two categories:

1) Those that speed up/make for easier GAMEPLAY. (eg: CM1 style selectable and movable waypoints.)

2) Those that are nice features that we would like to see in the game itself. (eg: Being able to ACQUIRE "reasonable amounts of" ammo/grenades from adjacent units instead of having to embark/disembark from vehicles.)

Then I would select the top 10 from each category... maybe have a vote on them (like we can do on WeBoB forums).

[Buzz]

"But in reality, most are not that effective over 300m. Ranged infantry combat in SF, for Blue forces, is often too decisive as a result."

True Vark. A squad's concentrated fire is still pretty impressive at 300m. In SF Blue staying far away is an advantage. I enjoy tiny firefights where you have to hunt for Red but not the tedious hues to house to house in a large map. I rather just call in heavy support fire and obliterate as much of the block as possible.

"…. upgrades/updates to the CMX2 engine will be added to Black Sea and CMSF2 …"

That sounds great for Modern Era fans of CMx2. I hope we get a little bone tossed our way soon.

"That's a really useful list you compiled Buzz. However, it's an overwhelming amount of items……."

Yeah we asked for a lot You are correct Erwin re: order of importance listing. When I get time I can try and do that but if anyone would like to give it a go, please do.

[Erwin]

Well, the order of importance is what all of us should be discussing. Anyone think of a way of culling the lists down to no more than a dozen or so?

[Erwin]

I printed our Buzz's list and here are my top picks in each category (in order of importance, so my top 3 are listed 1, 2, 3 etc.).

And BTW the following are equally pertinent to the WW2 versions of CM2.

GAMEPLAY SPEED/EFFICIENCY:

1) Ability to click on any waypoint or line and immediately select that units as well as move that waypoint. (Would speed up play enormously!)

2) When you click on a unit you immediately see a LOS map of everything it can see (a bit like the (hated) covered arc color). But, see item 4).

3) Color code platoons and squads to more easily see where all their components are located.

4) Change covered arc color or make it simply a line. The current color obscures the terrain.

5) Font scaling for higher resolution monitors.

6) In-game volume and brightness controls.

7) Improved AI is always a good goal.

8) Ability to load different Z folders at game set-up for different theatres.

9) Autosave option

10) More info about weapons systems and how they operate in the game like we had in CM1 - we need more helpful manuals rather than pages of RL weapons info that are of little use in the actual game.

GAME FEATURES THAT WOULD GREATLY IMPROVE THE GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE:

1) Improve targeting LOS issues. There is no point in the third ammo carrier being able to see the target but the MG or gunner cannot. We need to see LOS from the MG or gun, and/or the MG/Gun should automatically move those few inches so that it can get LOS and shoot at the target. Currently, the targeting/LOS system is frustrating and wastes time trying to maneuver to that "sweet spot" just to get target acquisition (and often it's impossible for no reason).

2) Ability to ACQUIRE "reasonable" amounts of ammo (and grenades etc) from adjacent units whether inf or vehicular (with no need to embark and disembark). When you are trying to resupply several squads from a small vehicle that can only hold one or two teams, it currently takes a ridiculous amount of micromanaging and time in WEGO.

3) Assault building option so that efficient assaults can take place without all the manual micromanaging. (Would speed up gameplay.)

4) Movement to Contact (like in CM1) as an alternative to the more exhausting HUNT.

6) Larger maps for modern long range weapons systems.

7) Ability to dismount at any waypoint. (Needed for WEGO.)

8) Formation commands including a "follow convoy" system for road movement.

9) Damage modeling/decals on vehicles.

10) Engineers can locate and disarm booby traps, IED's etc. and/or engineering vehicles to safely knock down walls or create roads over rivers and obstacles. (Supposedly they are supposed to be able to do this under fire on the battlefield... so it is relevant to the game.)

[costard]

1) Improve targeting LOS issues. There is no point in the third ammo carrier being able to see the target but the MG or gunner cannot. We need to see LOS from the MG or gun, and/or the MG/Gun should automatically move those few inches so that it can get LOS and shoot at the target. Currently, the targeting/LOS system is frustrating and wastes time trying to maneuver to that "sweet spot" just to get target acquisition (and often it's impossible for no reason).

A suggestion for this: the enemy icon is hashed with a crosshair for a target that can be hit by the selected unit? Thus, I select one of my units: enemy units seen by that unit show up as normal icon; units able to be targeted by the main weapon in the selected unit have the icon + crosshair.

I know this doesn't help with the "impossible (to hit) for no reason" (and I know that there is a reason, most likely my ignorance of my weapon system's capabilities), but it does mean that we don't waste time trying for the impossible, something that would (should?) be immediately obvious to the unit in "real life", trained in the capabilities of the weapons system they employ.

[Buzz]

" the enemy icon is hashed with a crosshair for a target that can be hit by the selected unit?"

Maybe a "Red Dot" mod for the crosshair in CMSF-2 / Black-Sea?

[Buzz]

Looking through the complete 3 part wish list for CMSF-2 there are plenty of items I would like to see included. One that may not make it into the new CMx2 version of CMSF but would make my top 10 listing is a utility to transfer CMSF scenarios, campaigns, maps, into CMSF 2. I am amazed at the number of well made scenarios & campaigns for the game. It would be so cool to just drop it in a scenarios & campaign "mod tool" and BOOM! You get to replay some great game resources in the new iteration of CMSF-2!

[Whiterider]

Looking through the complete 3 part wish list for CMSF-2 there are plenty of items I would like to see included. One that may not make it into the new CMx2 version of CMSF but would make my top 10 listing is a utility to transfer CMSF scenarios, campaigns, maps, into CMSF 2. I am amazed at the number of well made scenarios & campaigns for the game. It would be so cool to just drop it in a scenarios & campaign "mod tool" and BOOM! You get to replay some great game resources in the new iteration of CMSF-2!

Excellent idea!! It should be included in the top picks.

[costard]

Looking through the complete 3 part wish list for CMSF-2 there are plenty of items I would like to see included. One that may not make it into the new CMx2 version of CMSF but would make my top 10 listing is a utility to transfer CMSF scenarios, campaigns, maps, into CMSF 2. I am amazed at the number of well made scenarios & campaigns for the game. It would be so cool to just drop it in a scenarios & campaign "mod tool" and BOOM! You get to replay some great game resources in the new iteration of CMSF-2!

BF might get gummint sponsorship for their "commitment to recycling". Great idea Buzz.

[Buzz]

"BF might get gummint sponsorship for their "commitment to recycling". Great idea Buzz."

Go Green $$$ as in ecology and economy. Heck if you offer ALL the CMSF scenarios & campaigns and "mod tool" to bring them into CMx2 iteration you just IMO increased the attraction. Some original CMSF customers might sit on the fence ... well it is just a CMx2 upgrade. Drop in the "mod tool" - WOW! I get all my old CMSF scenarios & campaigns in the CMSF-2 as well as the sure to be enhancements of units and new scenarios & campaigns.

[Buzz]

Rained in all day so got to play plenty of CM in all CMx2 varieties & check out the CMBN-Market Garden - BETA AARs=Should be fun!

My multi tasking caught some of the public access "Security Analyst" discussion about Syria & the Middle East in 2013 vs. post 9/11. Their assessments were the regional M.E. SHTF time has yet to arrive but is close. The "Security Analyst" also mentioned how the Winter Olympics in Russia have been "blessed" as a desirable & legitimate target but some religious leader! Of course this is bad for the real world but I thought how CMSF-2 & "Black Sea" upon release are going to be so timely with real world events/

I was reading thru the CMSF-2 Wish List and the last request was… "CMSF2 remaining in 2008 time range in Syria but expanding to 2014+ expanding special forces campaigns and team and squad-level games with a possible invasion of Iran". Sounds about right... and Drones... we gotta have Drones.

[Whiterider]

False flags attacks tend to be a good excuse to start a new war. We all know it has been extremely common . The attackers pretend to be the savers of the victims (authentic "spiritualism"). There are good examples nowdays that could be applied to CMSFX2. You know what I mean: massive attempts, bloodly lies, insurgents="terrorists", chemical weapons use, massive media attacks, exaggerations... I would love to see one of these backgrounds in the game, it gives a lot of realism.

[Buzz]

ruse de guerre - Yep. Could be the foundation for many scenarios and campaigns CMSF. Rolling down the list of the many requests Mord had a couple of strong contenders:

Weapons stashes for Uncons static like bunkers or mobile resupply

Module options to plug in terrain like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

Speaking of Modules it would so much easier if CMx2 SF&BS had ... UI option that allows select different Z folders to load at start up different mod themes rather than physically moving files in the Z folder to change mods.

I am working on a top 10 but it is tough as there are plenty of good ideas.

[Whiterider]

I am working on a top 10 but it is tough as there are plenty of good ideas.

I´m really amazed about the quantity and quality of ideas :eek:. Because of this perhaps a top 30 will be required instead. Furthermore it looks many of these ideas are not difficult to make.

[Buzz]

Top 30 would be great. I know BF has plenty of projects they are working. I suspect you need extra staff to do the "wish list" to 10. I will be a returning customer for all their products for sure but it would be nice to see a few wish list items included in CMSF-2.

One that should be available is frames per second display option. This might help fine tune the texture / model settings per each PC.

[Whiterider]

Perhaps future patches (minor changes) and expansions in the next few years will be the only way to include so many good ideas. Eventually it would be very very sad to let them out.

[Ron Wilson]

I haven't read all these so my apologies if this has already been covered, but I think that it would be neat if the next version of CMSF would have the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement (CDTE) System included in its weaponry. see here

[Buzz]

I want one

Maybe I can plead "Hawg Invasion" to get permission

Would be a cool weapon in CMSF-2 but looks like "the Senate Armed Services Committee eliminated all funding for the XM25 in its revision of the Pentagon's budget in June 2013."

Sequester?

The XM25 CDTE fires 25 mm grenades that are set to explode in mid-air at or near the target. A laser rangefinder in the weapon is used to determine the distance to the target. The user can manually adjust the detonating distance by up to 10 feet (3.0 m) shorter or longer; the XM25 automatically transmits the detonating distance to the grenade in the firing chamber. The grenade tracks the distance it has traveled by the number of spiral rotations after it is fired, then detonates at the proper distance to produce an air burst effect. These features make the XM25 more effective than traditional grenade launchers at the task of hitting targets that are behind cover or dug into the ground (i.e. in defilade.)

[Buzz]

Perhaps future patches (minor changes) and expansions in the next few years will be the only way to include so many good ideas. Eventually it would be very very sad to let them out.

I don't think all Wish List items will make it in but I suspect ... over time.. many will in some manner be included. BF is a for profit company. They know how to make great games. They have a keen knowledge on best ROI so... some of our Wish List will become reality.... but BF knows what makes the best ROI & programing efficiency for their company / customers and the game engine.

Now if they wanted to splurge.. how about "Real Time 1 minute playback from ANY unit's perspective while on pause."

[Whiterider]

Ok, let´s try another one : "Target heavy", would be a good option when you only want to use the main gun. Useful to destroy structures and save machine gun ammunition.

Instead of "target briefly" I find easier to push "target"/"target light"/"target heavy" and then choose the number of seconds you need.

PS: At the moment is not possible to make a "target briefly light" or "target briefly heavy" in tanks (only machine gun or main gun).

[Ron Wilson]

The Xm25 can also be fired through a windows where it is timed to go off just inside the window so that it can be very effective in MOUT for clearing out rooms with a view.

It might be interesting to model in CMSF in that I don't know if the terrain is really flat if the laser can determine range accurately enough to effectively employ the 25mm grenade. But if there is a wall, or tree, or something with any vertical development then the laser has a good target and the accuracy should be really good.

[edit] Perhaps even flavor objects could be used to lase off of if tey are close to the target.

I am thinking that even if the weapon in its current form is on hold that it would be nice to have a few experimental weapons just to see how effective they might be if developed.... though that might not be what BF has in mind.... supporting their own version of operations research.