CM: Shock Force 2 Wish List

[Thunder]

Friends always ask me if Combat Mission is playable in Coop. Sadly I have to tell them its strictly H2H in Multiplayer. I think it would be very cool to play Combat Mission with multiple players, everyone controlling a platoon with one player being the company CO.

This would give the game another tactical depth because the CO has to issue orders which the platoon leaders need to understand correctly to execute the overall plan and would give the highest difficulty, where fog of war also affects friendly units some reason.

Given this scenario, friendly units should not be identified as being friendly unless the spotting unit knows (C2 wise)

[agusto]

Given this scenario, friendly units should not be identified as being friendly unless the spotting unit knows (C2 wise)

That is already the case when you play Iron mode. Friendly units are not spotted by other friendlies at all if they arent within C2 or directly have eyes on each other.

[Sequoia]

Even if the Armies in CMSF II remain the same as the original game, Syria with rivers and bridges, more detailed buildings, weather (dust storms any one?), barbed wire, prisoners, and fire, which we're sure to have by then, will be a whole new world.

A prediction: The base game will have both the US Army and Marines. The module will have the British, Germans, Canadians and Dutch. If it sells well we will get new Armies in a second module.

[Buzz]

Combat Mission with multiple players would be cool. I doubt we will see this in CMSF-2.

Sequoia has solid suggestions for a whole new world and his prediction may not be far off at all.

Maybe Steve will send a little status information to us regarding where Black Sea is in development and what we might see three and in CMSF-2?

Maybe... Please

[Amatoro]

Is it possible to make something with the graphics? I mean some times when my cursor is moved over a road I can see how terrain textures and meshes are changing to more detailed. It is not a problem when LOD is decreased on long distances. But it does not look good right under my cursor.

I know the graphics is not very important for Combat Mission games. But I will welcome improvements on it. I do not need state of the art graphic technologies and effects like volumetric lighting. I just want more consistent graphics which will not distract me from the game.

[Thunder]

That is already the case when you play Iron mode. Friendly units are not spotted by other friendlies at all if they arent within C2 or directly have eyes on each other.

I understand, but this is not exactly what I mean. In Iron Mode, you as a player still know where your units are, because you are controlling them. Of course, other units don't know about other friendly units they have no C2 contact with.

However, when a unit is spotted, the spotting unit immediately knows if this is a BLUFOR or REDFOR unit, even if the spotting unit does not know what role this unit has (infantry/anti tank/hq), the spotted unit is shown with a blue or red "?".

In my opinion, there should be a neutral spotting state where a target has not been positively identified as an enemy, but it is known that there IS a unit. Players would then need to check with their mates if friendly units are in there, to PID the enemy.

[agusto]

I want some kind of concrete texture/road tile, so we dont have to make parking lots like this anymore:

Sure you could use the gravel texture for parking lots, but then you have the problem that textures that are not road tiles fade into each other at the edges.

[Apocal]

The other issue that is the "elephant in the room" is with any modern game is that airpower spoils all the "fun". A modern game has to find excuses why the US doesn't dominate the skies and destroy all the enemy with precision strikes etc.

Same reasons we didn't in Iraq in 2003 or in Afghanistan now: finding people on a battlefield is hard and there isn't always enough air to go around.

[c3k]

One word: "Rules of Engagement".

[costard]

Lots of good suggestions - are there any that most of us would like to see? The amount of work we've lined up for BF is mind-bogglingly big, so if we want to help them prioritise, we should sort the list a little, do some pruning. (Either that or give them a big heap of the folding stuff.)

My 2c: with the advent of armour arcs there is a big plus to be delivered through the development of the modelling of vehicle spotting. With WW2 armour the spots were from the eyeballs of the armour crew, occasionally looking for a target through a periscope/telescope. Modern day, the spots are coming from electronic systems and the design and engineering of the masts and optics arrays exploit the remote view technology we've developed since 1945.

I'd like to see the tactical overlay map somewhere on the screen -harking back to the old Close Combat days. A lot of the command and control issues (such as squad designation, placement and activity) might be addressed here: the problem being, I think, a growing need to have a multiple screen setup, with detailed data on one and the 3d map on the other. Maybe for 2015 if the economy picks up.

Ergonomics: guys, I think you need to address things like font sizing sooner rather than later.

Have at it, prune away! Squawking allowed.

[Buzz]

Thanks Costard,

Font sizing much sooner & multiple screen setup.

Yes, lots of good suggestions. I summarized suggestions a while back but have been to busy with work to do tally #2. If anyone has some spare time please feel free to summarize again. Even though the amount of work we've lined up for BF is mind-bogglingly big I am sure they appreciate hearing / seeing what CMSF-2 aka Black Sea customers would like to see in the new modern CMx2s.

[Mord]

I'd really like to see them keep it in 2008 but maybe expand the dates by a couple years...2008-10 or something.

Hopefully this time around they add in more palm types and more modern flavor objects.

Weapons stashes for Uncons would also be cool. They could be factored in at the end of the game if captured/discovered.

Something else that would be cool is they did a different kind of module where we could plug in terrain. Like Afghanistan. Have the terrain plus Muj units so we could make A-Stan scenarios without a bunch of modding. Same with Iraq.

Mord.

[Stagler]

Could have the cache work like a placeable static vehicle such as a bunker. And editors can make it so if it destroyed or "seen" then it gives points as an objective.

[Mord]

Exactly what I was thinking. They could also make it so you could edit the load out in the editor; have tabs for ammo, rpg rockets, rpgs, grenades that sort of thing. It would be a real blow to the Uncon forces to loose one of these caches during a battle—cutting off a way that they could resupply when they are running low...like how it is when you lose a Stryker or LAV. It would definitely add another dimension to the scenarios.

Mord.

[Buzz]

Sounds like Shock Force 2 (that will follow "Black Sea") is a new engine redo of CMSF so it should be in the same 2008 time range... I think.

More flavor options, trees, etc. would be nice. Never thought about weapons stashes for Uncons ... with load out in the editor.... static and maybe truck small arms resupply..... that would be really cool and useful adding another dimension.

[LongLeftFlank]

My wish list, besides features already present in the latest version of the engine:

1. For the love of all that's holy, after 5 years with this engine can we please please please add some non-clock-based dynamic "trigger" functionality to the AI! Even if it's a primitive set of (optionally hidden) Flags a la CM1 that cause a designated AI Group (oh, and we need more Groups, always) to "counterattack" when the Flag zone is "lost". The design community is more than clever enough to figure out how to get the most out of this feature and thereby compound the "intelligence" of the AI. Pure clock based movement while marginally acceptable for tank vs tank, makes real world infantry tactics other than "human wave" virtually impossible to recreate.

2. Some form of CosPlay support. Even if it's PBEM only and incomplete it would breathe new life into the system and rejuvenate the community. Simply allowing units on both sides to be designated as AI, not player controlled, would seem straightforward. So, e.g. the player commands the infantry, but can't control the tanks.... which is realistic. Or the lead element blunders into an ambush which the player can't avert, only react to.

3. Revamp the cover and "demolition" characteristics of buildings, clearly distinguishing traditional thick load-bearing walls or poured slab structures from more modern thin-walled cement pillared structures. Accurately reflect improved cover values va fire from higher or lower elevations (poured cement floors are the most bulletproof feature in modern buildings, but that's useless vs same level shooters). Accurately reflect limits on tank gun elevation/depression vs nearby targets (yup, I get it's complex).

FWIW

[Lanzfeld]

My wish list, besides features already present in the latest version of the engine:

1. For the love of all that's holy, after 5 years with this engine can we please please please add some non-clock-based dynamic "trigger" functionality to the AI! Even if it's a primitive set of (optionally hidden) Flags a la CM1 that cause a designated AI Group (oh, and we need more Groups, always) to "counterattack" when the Flag zone is "lost". The design community is more than clever enough to figure out how to get the most out of this feature and thereby compound the "intelligence" of the AI. Pure clock based movement while marginally acceptable for tank vs tank, makes real world infantry tactics other than "human wave" virtually impossible to recreate.

2. Some form of CosPlay support. Even if it's PBEM only and incomplete it would breathe new life into the system and rejuvenate the community. Simply allowing units on both sides to be designated as AI, not player controlled, would seem straightforward. So, e.g. the player commands the infantry, but can't control the tanks.... which is realistic. Or the lead element blunders into an ambush which the player can't avert, only react to.

3. Revamp the cover and "demolition" characteristics of buildings, clearly distinguishing traditional thick load-bearing walls or poured slab structures from more modern thin-walled cement pillared structures. Accurately reflect improved cover values va fire from higher or lower elevations (poured cement floors are the most bulletproof feature in modern buildings, but that's useless vs same level shooters). Accurately reflect limits on tank gun elevation/depression vs nearby targets (yup, I get it's complex).

FWIW

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All of it. Every last damn word.

[Alan8325]

I agree that CMSFII is better off remaining in the 2008 time range in Syria.

Current and near future Syria (2014?) is going to be less suitable for game based on conventional conflict like CM. Syria is likely going to become a failed state with areas ruled separately by Shiites and Alawites, Sunni Islamists allied with Al Queda, and Kurds. Any Western intervention would likely consist of a short air campaign to bomb leftover air defenses followed by a special forces campaign, supported by limited air support, to work with moderate local forces to secure chemical weapons and limit Islamist power in the area.

While this environment would make for some interesting team and squad-level games based on the Battlefield or ArmA engines, I think 2008 Syria is better for CM. The only issue I see is that a re-do of CMSF in the same environment, which no longer exists, might have a difficult time attracting any new players who aren't already fans of CMSF. I wonder if it could be based on an invasion of Iran instead of Syria.

[Buzz]

CMSFII could range from 2008-2014+. This way you get all the original "conventional conflict" options and the trending "failed state" future for Syria. That is a wide range of gaming possibilities. The invasion of Iran could be or even Iraq ... well they are in the neighborhood.... as is Turkey and Lebanon and Israel.

[Alan8325]

True. I guess Syria really hasn't obtained any new hardware in the recent past that they didn't have in 2008. Any differences between 2008 and now would be in Western forces and even those changes would be few. Maybe more air support would be via drone, but in CM terms that wouldn't make much a difference from manned air support. You could certainly model most of the Red on Red battles happening in Syria now with current CMSF content.

[Buzz]

=========

Thanks for all your suggestions.

It never hurts to ask BFC to include features for the products we enjoy.

Please review:

New features/feature ideas for CM for the next few years thread (http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110504)

Plenty of good ideas in this thread as well that may translate to CMSF-2 / "Black Sea"

==========

==========

Buzz

03-10-2013

PART ONE - "CM: Shock Force 2" Wish List replies.

Drones: aerial reconnaissance and attack systems

QB Remove restrictions and expand objectives

Port a CMBN like QB system to CMSF2 but allow cherry picking

Frames per second display option

UI option that allows select different Z folders to load at start up different mod themes rather than physically moving files in the Z folder to change mods.

"Flypast" ability to watch replays of airstrikes form a realistic angle and height close to what the pilot would see.

Picture overlay for the scenario editor for mapmaking.

Assault building option to make the squad adopt realistic room clearing techniques, without micro-managing all the waypoints and targeting instructions.

Damage modeling to vehicles with damage decals.

Greater waypoint granularity with more action spots

Grenades and WP to be on acquisition list

Area fire using similar template to artillery (point linear and area) with relative movement to the firer

Convoy ability to allow lead vehicle to be followed with correct spacing

Ability to select a playlist of music for game background with a hotkey ability to mute and/or increase decrease the volume of the playlist.

Option to acquire equipment from vehicles in the scenario editor.

Shock wave/bubble effect of large explosions.

Organize formations hotkey at set-up to get the right units with the right HQ etc.

Greater throw grenades specificity - throw smoke or frags.

A listing of the .wavs / .bmps and their corresponding units / weapons to aid in modding.

Air defense systems: fixed, short-range, self-propelled,hand-held anti-aircraft systems.

Friendly fire, anti-air missile mishaps.

Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence (C³I): simulate jamming, systems failing replaced by mobile phones, etc.

GPS unavailable due to the war zone being blacked out.

Cyber Attack with corresponding infrastructure impacts.

Naval simulation: ports, shipping of patrol boats, logistical targeting and impact.

Local ethnic minorities units "extremists" with little discipline and/or respect for the laws of war.

===========

Buzz

03-29-2013

PART TWO - "CM: Shock Force 2" Wish List replies.

Real Time 1 minute playback from any unit's perspective while on pause.

A Record / Playback ability allowing the entire scenario to be viewed from any unit's perspective.

Precision guided artillery and mortar munitions like Krasnopol, Excalibur, GMLRS, PGMM (120mm mortar), etc.

A campaign scripting system for user-made content, so we can avoid the dedicated mission just to choose campaign branches.

Battle scripting system for more dynamic battles against the AI, especially attacks.

Obstacles, roadblocks, booby-traps, fougasse, etc.

More realistic handling of night vision; degrades around light sources like flares, fires, or insufficient ambient light.

ROF like artillery, maximum, medium, slow etc, which could be overidden if a threat target appeared?

"Militia" a semi regular force better than combatants or fighters on a par with reserves but with a possible mix of red and blue weapons for great for Red v Red scenarios.

Multi processor support... 64-bit Windows version and the unlimited ability to use as much memory for CMSF2.

More realistic close air support options / control. Ground commander calls for CAS get greater feedback on what hits the box. UI feedback to see exactly which type of ordnance is available, rather than just "light", "medium" and "heavy".

Real-time intelligence gathering from aircraft including UAVs giving some form of LOS and communicating through the Command and Control system.

Ground to Air fire… aircraft come on station, AAA acquires its target, fires. Aircraft either immediately goes off station and the FAC has to call it in again, or the aircraft is destroyed depending upon the skill levels.

UAVs air support for Intel or Strike / type of ordinance, with limited time allowed on station.

Multiple points of LOS generation from vehicles.

Larger maps give more room to maneuver around the maximum ranges of modern weapons systems.

Half-meter increments in elevation.

Damage modeling for vehicles.

Engineers with unmanned ground combat vehicles to disarm roadside bombs.

Texture Quality hotkey (like the 3D Model Quality hotkey) to adjust on the fly.

Graphics 'sweet spot slider' that tells you your FPS and recommended setting for speed or quality or balance.

More flexibility to attach units to different HQ's: either in the scenario design, or during the set-up phase.

Greater detailed modeling of vehicle, terrain physics and modeling water. Enhanced acquire and put back abilities.

Chemical Weapons capability and NBC suits.

Operational and logistics planning

Enhanced UI options of a tree like structure of icons of units with casualty feedback and camera autofocus for RT play. An operational window.

Vehicle command "wait for infantry action".

Greater Target Smoke control.

===========

Buzz

08-13-2013

PART THREE - "CM: Shock Force 2" Wish List replies.

Air support plane/helicopter list be update

Auto Save option in Turn based and Real Time

Cyber Warfare items: 'Red' side access to a 'Blue' drones, Scenario designers ability to selectively disable specific equipment in vehicles and selectively remove equipment from troops, Cyberwar Morale Hit, Troops in disadvantageous position or less-than-ideal force reflecting cyber damage back home, EW and ECM impacts,

Easier split squad locating.

Color borders on the icons for a squad, and icon colors for the platoon

More user interface option slots allowing customized key sequences or combinations

"Appearance" options as in CM WWII

Multiple uniform options like CMBN/FI

Editor "Data" screen guide as to "Rarity" of X uniforms being available in the location / time frame

Multiple battles (or campaign) on the same map with persistent damage (a.k.a.) similar to the old "Operation" game type

Improved line of sight checking tools

A utility to transfer CMSF scenarios, campaigns, maps, into CMSF 2

Random map generator for quick battles

Serious improvement in AI including dynamic AI

Toggle Weather option

Specify type of obscurant smoke

Campaigns for two human players.

Email games for up to four human players (2 vs 2/2 vs 1)

Coastal bombardments to support amphibious landing operations

Toggle covered arcs on or off

Mini map in the corner of the screen

Faster movement on roads / special order to travel by roads

1980s Module NATO and Warsaw Pact

Bigger battlefields 8 X12KM to 4X4KM to 2X2KM for modern equipment ranges

Good terrain magnetism turned off

Anti-cheat system for email games

1980s modern European theatre and US intervention in Iran in the Middle East oilfields

Short-range MLRS on-map asset

Write in DAR/AAR's that they opened up with their attached battery of TOS'ers

Units formations button (column, wedge, line, echelon)

Tank sights view

Target accuracy range applied for all weapons in the target arc

Blackhawk, Hind, troop carried AA weapons

Casualty evacuation

"Bestiary" / "Dealership" file comes with the game

More detailed information about the weapons and vehicles (statistics, rules, history) in game

Battlefront server to play online games

Full game replay option

Hunt as a movement toggle, option to crawl (slow+hunt toggle) to contact or run (fast + hunt toggle) to contact

High number of small maps (scenarios & quick battles) would be appreciated.

Snow

Click on ANY waypoint/line in order to select the unit (instead of having to go back and find the unit itself first)

Spreadsheet for each module listing when each vehicle and gun and infantry unit is available by month

Displaying individual unit kills at the end of a battle

Move leaders around in between battles in a campaign

Built in , quick and easy select different Z folder mod themes without having to move things about

Increase plain old "fun" aspect of playing a game

More accurate vehicle damage modeling system

Issue a dismount command at a waypoint, instead of having to wait for a vehicle to stop

Counter to tell how long a unit will take to move a certain distance

Air modeled

Cas evac

Multilayer: Teams/commands 2 vs. AI, 2 vs. 2, everyone controlling a platoon with one player being the company CO.

Auto pause with a key NO requesting it from your opponent(s)

AI mods - which change or add to the game's core AI: strategic mod, group management mod,tactical mod

Section attack

Syria with rivers, bridges, more detailed buildings, weather, dust storms, barbed wire, prisoners, fire, etc.

More consistent non distracting graphics

Rules of Engagement

Better modern armor arcs modeling / vehicle spotting with tactical overlay map, and multiple screen setup with details option

Ergonomics: font sizing / image options

Keep CMSF in 2008 but maybe expand the dates by a couple years

Weapons stashes for Uncons static like bunkers or mobile resupply

Module options to plug in terrain like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

Non-clock-based dynamic "trigger" functionality to the AI

CosPlay support: player commands the infantry but can't control the tanks

Revamp the cover and "demolition" characteristics of buildings, clearly distinguishing traditional thick load-bearing walls or poured slab structures from more modern thin-walled cement pillared structures.

Accurately reflect improved cover values va fire from higher or lower elevations (poured cement floors are the most bulletproof feature in modern buildings, but that's useless vs same level shooters).

Accurately reflect limits on tank gun elevation/depression vs nearby targets….

CMSF2 remaining in 2008 time range in Syria but expanding to 2014+ expanding special forces campaigns and team and squad-level games with a possible invasion of Iran

==========

[Buzz]

Hope I didn't scare folks away with my quick summary of "CM: Shock Force 2" Wish List replies?

Yes we asked for plenty. Undoubtedly we get a few and the advanced CMx2 engine for SF-2. Perhaps we get more. We might even get some hints from BF about what & when we might?

[Whiterider]

It would be cool to purchase units manually in quick battles.

[Sublime]

^ this i think would be perhaps one of the single most important changes to an updated SF. IMO thats SF's biggest failing (for me..), as it makes pbem QBs unplayable. Really any qbs, single or multi.

[Buzz]

"purchase units manually in quick battles"

I agree and hope SF-2 (& Black Sea) add this valuable feature because it will add value to enjoyment of both games.

Check MarkEzra's QB post.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111117

"I'm the guy responsible for CMSF & CMBN Quick Battle Maps. I continued to work/improve QB Maps through the NATO Module. So yes... hopefully a bit better. But I have a Small set of CMSF QB Maps I recently made for my personal use that use all the things I learned when making CMBN QB Maps. I can send them by email...just haven't gotten around to uploaded them.... way too busy on CMBN Market Garden QB's

By the way CMBN provides a superior QB game experience to CMSF but sometimes I just need a modern rush to my system."

I could see Mark refine the CMSF QB maps with every iteration. Add "purchase units manually in quick battles" and IMO a good map becomes a much better map.