Been Out of the CM scene a LONG Time

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

So I haven't played CM since CMAK and I just got a brand new Mac this week.

So tell me, should I start out in Italy, or backtrack to Normandy first?

[Erwin]

People seem to like CMBN more. It has more scenarios and campaigns than CMFI. And I think it's patched a bit more than CMFI, altho' that patch is probably imminent.

[TheVulture]

In terms of how they play, there isn't much to chose between them (at least since Normandy got the 2.0 upgrade). With the recent MG changes, Normandy probably has a slight edge, although that will come to Italy soon. So I guess it depends on which theater you are more interested in. Currently you get USA and Brits against Germany in bocage, or USA against Italians and Germans in arid, hilly Sicily.

Do you prefer panthers, hedges and British tanks, or 60 man Italian platoons and semovente SPGs?

[invernomuto]

I prefer CMFI for the terrain (I cannot stand bocage ), but CMBN + CW has more scenarios and more units.

Also, for CMFI the new module "Gustav Line" (with a lot of new formations and units) is coming soon.

Right now I would buy CMBN + CW and wait for CMFI + Gustav Line bundle.

Bye.

[Holman]

I'm inclined to like CMBN better because I love the war in Europe, but starting with CMFI (and then Gustav Line) makes a certain chronological sense.

[Buzz]

So I haven't played CM since CMAK and I just got a brand new Mac this week.

So tell me, should I start out in Italy, or backtrack to Normandy first?

You could get both. You would not be disappointed with either.

If you have not tried CMSF it is now available for Mac. CMSF2 will come out but there is so much material in CMSF-MAC now you will not be played out before CMSF2 comes out. Modern is pretty cool especially on a Mac.

[pnzrldr]

I just got into this thing - friend back in the day was into CMAK and I was not. Now I am a die-hard believer and my wife is a "Battlefront Widow." I bought CMFI first, but was disappointed in the amount of content available. BF and non-BF forums just don't have that many folks hanging scenarios yet. So I bought CMBN/CW/2.0 upgrade. That is mostly what I am playing now. Have added numerous visual mods (need to find the 'trees' one for CMBN still) and love the force mix and depth of scenarios and discussion on CMBN. That said, CMFI is much more visually stunning and the terrain offers a lot more flexibility tactically. I too hate bocage, and note that it leads to sort of 2 dimensional tactics. If you think you can immerse in a smaller batch of battles and a couple of the good campaigns that come with CMFI until Gustav Line comes out, I would just go that route for now. If you want the full meal-deal menu of stuff to play - especially community-generated, as soon as you finish the download, I would go for CMBN, but make SURE you get the 2.0 upgrade. As an aside, I had to work some vid card magic when I did the CMBN 2.01 patch. Followed a tech support thread to a list of settings for my Nvidia card and it worked like a champ. Good luck!

[bobo]

I prefer CMFI for the terrain (I cannot stand bocage ), but CMBN + CW has more scenarios and more units.

Also, for CMFI the new module "Gustav Line" (with a lot of new formations and units) is coming soon.

Right now I would buy CMBN + CW and wait for CMFI + Gustav Line bundle.

Bye.

Good advice here. Try the demos first though. CM2 is different than CM1, better IMHO, but takes some time to adjust to it.

Bobo

[Michael Emrys]

...takes some time to adjust to it.

Tru dat. The initial learning curve is extremely steep. Be prepared to spend a lot of time just getting used to very basic details, like how to move your men. There is a lot of detail in this game, and whether that is your joy or your tribulation is mostly up to you. If patience is already your virtue, you should do fine. Otherwise, be prepared to tear your hair out.

Michael

[Wodin]

Buy the one you have the most interest in. CMBN is ahead at the minute with features and fixes. Thats the beauty of the way BF are going about making these games..you always have the option to keep the older ones upto date. Infact CMBN was released a couple of years ago and it's ahead of CMFI at the moment.

[womble]

Good advice here. Try the demos first though. CM2 is different than CM1, better IMHO, but takes some time to adjust to it.

Bobo

Don't let the lack of handholding in the demos (they are distinctly "demos", not really "tutorials", though there are elements included which are extracted from some of the later tutorials) detract from appreciating just how fabulous the CMx2 engine is, either. In CM's case effort is more than repaid with reward.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Tru dat. The initial learning curve is extremely steep. Be prepared to spend a lot of time just getting used to very basic details, like how to move your men. There is a lot of detail in this game, and whether that is your joy or your tribulation is mostly up to you. If patience is already your virtue, you should do fine. Otherwise, be prepared to tear your hair out.

That's how it was in the CMBO days as well. If you didn't know what you were doing, you could walk your men right into ambushes, roll your tanks through criss-cross AT killzones, and so on (I recognize your name Michael, so I know you know).

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I'm leaning towards the already established Normandy, but I will try out both demos next week on my school break to see. I'll probably end up buying Normandy first only because I like the late war equipment and formations, but I'll give both of them a fair amount of time before I pull my wallet out.

[Wodin]

I'd also go into the game with a clean slate..i.e forget about CMx1...you need to come at this as a whole new game and new game experience.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

That was the impression I got with the modern war version that started off this new gen of CM games.

I generally do not care for most modern wargames though. I like when my tanks, troops, and fighter planes have to get within visual range and use their own judgment rather than a computer guiding in a GPS oriented bomb.

[JonS]

With the recent MG changes, Normandy probably has a slight edge, although that will come to Italy soon.

How quickly we take that patching funcitonality for granted

[Wodin]

That was the impression I got with the modern war version that started off this new gen of CM games.

I generally do not care for most modern wargames though. I like when my tanks, troops, and fighter planes have to get within visual range and use their own judgment rather than a computer guiding in a GPS oriented bomb.

Listen I really have no interest in modern warfare at all. However pre CMBN I was very bored and watched a gameplay video that was part of a competition I quite liked the few mins I saw so picked it up second hand (paradox version). I then ordered the marines module. You know what..I really enjoyed it..the awesome firepower and toys where a buzz (the theater I had no interest in at all though). I then, when it came out bought the Brit module..oh wow..that changed the game totally.

After playing CMBN I started to pine for the modern toys again. I now can't wait for SF2.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

That's cool, man. Once I make my decision on which WWII theater I want to start with, if I love it, I'll probably buy all of the WWII stuff eventually.

Then somewhere down the road maybe I'll finally give SF a real try.

[Ultradave]

They are all good. As a long time Mac user, I was glad to see them come back to the Mac, and I've picked up CMBN, CW, CMFI, and now CMSF. Each has their own good points. Which one you enjoy may depend most on what theatre/era you like. Each has it's own challenges.

I agree with the previous. I've played plenty of WWII games over many years and enjoy that time period. CMSF however, is loads of fun because it has all the good stuff in it that was just coming out or we had never dreamed of when I was in the Army (M1s and Bradleys were brand new then)

I've enjoyed the different challenges of each one.

Dave

[noxnoctum]

Get CMFI unless you're willing to buy the 2.0 patch thing.

I still think the terrain of Italy is more fun, though CMBN has a lot more content right now.

[Chek]

I'm in the CMFI camp but it's a close run thing.

Don't rule out shock force either I'm hard core WW2, got CMBN within minutes of it's release was so impressed within a month I'd grabbed shock force with all the modules. It's REALLY good, it plays very nicely and the potential tactical combinations of all those units is nothing short of mind boggling.

So much depth in these games, damn things are endless.

That learning curve is steep tho and borders on disheartening at times, but when it all comes together it's a beautiful thing

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

We'll see how things go with the whole SF thing. WWII will be my first entry into the current CM engine, regardless.

[JasonC]

Italy might be a bit more forgiving on the learning curve, just because the "pathing" issues with hedgerows are a major hurdle for an old CMx1 player. Similarly, doors are individually modeled and attention must be paid to the actual way into or out of any building.

The most common frustrating screw up CMx2 inflicts on an experienced CMx1 player is that he orders his men to get from A to B, and they pick a tactically suicidal route to get there. Why? Because the straighter path the CMx1 player thought he was ordering from his waypoints alone, is physically impossible, through linear obstacles like hedgerows and building walls, and the men try to adapt by some crazy loop that gets them to a door or a gap in the hedge.

The right way to do this is to get down to level 1-2 views and spot all the doors and gaps, and to put waypoints right next to the door or gap you intend for them to use, and another just through it, and then on their way on the other side. If you don't, they could walk into a buzz saw trying to "go around" to find the physically possible route - that is militarily impossible, instead.

I hope that helps...

[womble]

The right way to do this is to get down to level 1-2 views and spot all the doors and gaps, and to put waypoints right next to the door or gap you intend for them to use, and another just through it, and then on their way on the other side. If you don't, they could walk into a buzz saw trying to "go around" to find the physically possible route - that is militarily impossible, instead.

I hope that helps...

Another thing that I don't think CMx1 inflicted on you as the commander, is the inherent laziness of the common soldier. If you want them to struggle, for example, through the muck at the bottom of the ditch you want them to sneak along in perfect defilade, you'll need to put a waypoint most every AS, or they'll take the "easy" way out and meander up at the top of the ditch where the going is easier... And getting them to do such tasks while unsplit squads is pretty close to impossible, since the "other" team will always be hanging out in the fresh air...