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Single player , turn based or real time?


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For the first 6-8 months after BN came out, RT. Then I tried WEGO (but I am a vet of all CMx1 titles) and have stayed there since.

For the reasons others stated (more realistic lack of micro-control, ability to comfortably command all units, rather than god-command some and forget others, and video replay to get all the detail and details!) I far prefer WEGO.

To me, it seems far more realistic and enjoyable. So, WEGO 100% here.

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Funny how CMx2 was really designed as an RT game yet many still prefer WEGO. I think some of the issues WEGO has is because it was designed as an RT game in the first place. I never understood the decision to go RT when WEGO was the major selling point in my opinion of CMx1.

Though it's improved greatly for WEGO since the first release of SF I'm sure if it had been designed as a WEGO game certain issues wouldn't be around even today.

I will never understand why they originally designed the game for RT play over WEGO, but thankful WEGO is still in the game even though it still, in some respects, doesn't work aswell as CMx1.

I think the fact that so many people prefer Wego over RT is just a psychlogical thing. You could, in theory, pause the game every 60 seconds and issue cmmands and then watch as they are carried out. But who does that? When i played RT i always ended up rapeing the hell out of the pause button.

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I think the fact that so many people prefer Wego over RT is just a psychlogical thing. You could, in theory, pause the game every 60 seconds and issue cmmands and then watch as they are carried out. But who does that? When i played RT i always ended up rapeing the hell out of the pause button.

As long as the unit numbers and map size is manageable RT without pausing can be fun. You get a good sense of how commanding multiple fire fights is so challenging and how quickly things become disastrous.

RT in larger events is also fun but I need that pause pacifier:)

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I think the fact that so many people prefer Wego over RT is just a psychlogical thing. You could, in theory, pause the game every 60 seconds and issue cmmands and then watch as they are carried out. But who does that? When i played RT i always ended up rapeing the hell out of the pause button.

It's not the same. You still can watch only one thing at one time and miss many things that are conducting simultaneously. I think that so many people prefer WEGO over RT simply because WEGO is better :) And WEGO was always main thing that differentiate Combat Mission from other games

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Funny how CMx2 was really designed as an RT game yet many still prefer WEGO. I think some of the issues WEGO has is because it was designed as an RT game in the first place. I never understood the decision to go RT when WEGO was the major selling point in my opinion of CMx1.

Hi Wodin

It's been a very long time ago since I read the posts Steve made about the RT engine while the new game was being designed. ISTR him saying that the RT engine allowed the game to do lots of things that the old CMx1 engine couldn't. Things like artillery having to finish firing within one turn, and perhaps other fires, like AT rounds for example in the old engine. That's why we can sometimes see screenshots of tanks about to be hit by an AT round at the end of a turn. Of course, I could be remembering this all wrong ;)

So, overall, the shift to a RT engine was a gain for WEGO players even if they don't want to play RT. I think most folks would agree that the CMx2 WEGO play is better than CMx1 play, wouldn't you? ('Missing' commands apart ;) )

For my part, I play RT only. This is because I have no interest in playing games by email with human opponents (probably because you'd all kick my butt regularly :D ). Also, I'm more interested in playing the mission through to its conclusion in one sitting than sitting watching replays of the action. After playing this way for several years now, I don't miss the replays very much at all. And yes, when you start playing RT, you hit the Pause button every few seconds. That's natural. However, after I got a bit of experience with it, I only pause the game when I receive reinforcements, I am calling in an artillery/air strike, or if everything really does go pear-shaped and I want to examine the situation . Otherwise, a 1-hour mission plays in about an hour and a half for me, from set-up to the conclusion.

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Funny how CMx2 was really designed as an RT game yet many still prefer WEGO. I think some of the issues WEGO has is because it was designed as an RT game in the first place. I never understood the decision to go RT when WEGO was the major selling point in my opinion of CMx1.

Though it's improved greatly for WEGO since the first release of SF I'm sure if it had been designed as a WEGO game certain issues wouldn't be around even today.

I will never understand why they originally designed the game for RT play over WEGO, but thankful WEGO is still in the game even though it still, in some respects, doesn't work aswell as CMx1.

I agree. I'm now understanding why CMx2 just doesn't feel right to me as a WEGO player. Why would you not have put moveable waypoints in an initial release when they were in CMx1? It's RT that also does WEGO rather than updated WEGO that introduces RT. Somehow it has lost it's charm too.

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Hi Wodin

For my part, I play RT only. This is because I have no interest in playing games by email with human opponents (probably because you'd all kick my butt regularly :D ). Also, I'm more interested in playing the mission through to its conclusion in one sitting than sitting watching replays of the action. After playing this way for several years now, I don't miss the replays very much at all. And yes, when you start playing RT, you hit the Pause button every few seconds. That's natural. However, after I got a bit of experience with it, I only pause the game when I receive reinforcements, I am calling in an artillery/air strike, or if everything really does go pear-shaped and I want to examine the situation . Otherwise, a 1-hour mission plays in about an hour and a half for me, from set-up to the conclusion.

As I mentioned above, I've played RT and only RT since the early days of SF.

I recall the shift as being somewhat traumatic, but now I really have a hard time even remembering what WeGO was like.

The crucial element may be that I stopped playing against other players about the same time I started playing SF. RT can definitely keep you juggling against the AI and if you get bogged down micromanaging one thing or another then things can go bad elsewhere. So I guess it is in the interests of an interesting soltaire experience more than anything else that I only play RT.

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I play both. I PBEM, but when I rarely do single player anymore I use RT to sort of handicap myself against the AI. And I only use pause if there's an extreme f*** up or calling in artillery, or lighting something (in real life)

That is exactly how I look at it also. If I want a sit down start to finish battle in one evening. Then RT is great against the AI. Like you said, its a great way to give the AI a fighting chance as long as you are able to control yourself from hitting pause too much.

I try to limit my pauses for the size of the battle. Small battles i can do them without pausing much at all. Middle size battles are like WEgo, about a minute apart and then the very large battles I try for a minute but when the action gets hot it goes down to less time if I have multiple battle AREAS going on.

But the only time I am doing this is normally if I am playing a CAMPAIGN ANYWAY.

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Hello PT,

Yes the game on the whole is better than CMx1. I do think though WEGO needs a couple more commands..but we are getting there.

I'm just very happy we have both options. If CMx2 didn't have WEGO I certainly wouldn't be playing it now and would have no interest in the game whatsoever. It's the major selling point for me.

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I think the fact that so many people prefer Wego over RT is just a psychlogical thing. You could, in theory, pause the game every 60 seconds and issue cmmands and then watch as they are carried out. But who does that? When i played RT i always ended up rapeing the hell out of the pause button.

Not so..it's the replay feature that is so important to me and I think many WEGO players (not just for immersion reasons and overall enjoyment and watching the action across the map as it happened but also for a better picture of exactly what is going on across the map)...otherwise I'd just play RT and use pause (well I wouldn't as I wouldn't be playing in the first place).

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If CMx2 didn't have WEGO I certainly wouldn't be playing it now and would have no interest in the game whatsoever. It's the major selling point for me.

+1 absolutely. Some might think it is an exaggeration but it is not! Without WEGO there would be no way I could or would play given my gaming is done is half hour to hour long blocks when I get a free moment.

Not so..it's the replay feature that is so important to me and I think many WEGO players

Spot on! My enjoyment of WEGO is much higher due to this. I have tried RT but just do not enjoy it.

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Not so..it's the replay feature that is so important to me and I think many WEGO players (not just for immersion reasons and overall enjoyment and watching the action across the map as it happened but also for a better picture of exactly what is going on across the map)...otherwise I'd just play RT and use pause (well I wouldn't as I wouldn't be playing in the first place).

Regarding the replay, I played CMBB to death. I spent years of my life playing that game. :eek: (Not so much with CMBO which I bought first and not at all with CMAK). When I started playing CMBO, I would watch the turn's action from different viewpoints over and over again. But eventually, I found that I was more interested in finishing the mission I was playing and would pretty much just watch the turn once and move onto the next turn immediately. That's how I played CMBB for years and that's pretty much how it goes in RT and why I don't miss it nearly as much as some of you guys would. For me, the really important thing is seeing how my plan fares and completing the mission rather than watching the action from different viewpoints. That's me.:cool:

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WEGO......only for single player.....

The new pause feature is almost there also for MP games.....U just have to ask and be approved for a pause from your opponent (can be frustrating at times). Just did a 4 hour online campaign game. On average it took about 20s -5 mins for the player to see the pause. A lot can happen in that amount of time :)

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  • 4 months later...
Pure realtime would be great with cooperative multiplayer, where each player leads no more then one platoon.

As I can't lead flanking attack and main force the same time I am forced to play WeGo.

What's wrong with coop multiplayer WeGo?

I'd suggest that BF are more likely to implement such a mode than RT at first because code-wise it's a little easier - no need to worry about live multiplayer set up's, connection issues etc..

Moreover, it would provide a good test-bed for in-game multiplayer issues; fog of war, shared off map support etc..

I've been reading elsewhere about speculation of multi -multiplayer RT but in my view 4player WeGo would be a more realistic expectation and would be a fantastic evolutionary move forward.

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I find that one of the items not mentioned in favor of real times realism is the coordination factor. In we go, you can perfectly coordinate. Everything. Precisely on time and with little more than an orders delay.

Don't get me wrong, I love WEGO as a CMBO, BB, and AK vet. For anything larger than a reinforced company WEGO is practically mandatory anyhow.

However I find that at the company level and below real time is often a better simulation for the platoon that reaches the wood line and then can't seem to report in because the CO is busy listening to contact reports form 2nd platoon.

Of the platoon leader who is thrown into a hasty attack because, by god, they said we need to go NOW, we can't find the perfect route..sergeant, take your men through the woods that way, we need to move.

Of the defending machinegun team leader who sees that those guys just got into his flank but can't think fast enough to process that means a close assault is coming...largely helped by suppression.

For the forward observer who realizes he called cease loading, not cease fire, and 1 more round is coming in form those guns...but the assault boys just jumped up and started rushing anyhow.

It, in effect, creates the vast chaos that gets jammed on a limited net with limited information. At just about the right resolution for a company.

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I find that one of the items not mentioned in favor of real times realism is the coordination factor. In we go, you can perfectly coordinate. Everything. Precisely on time and with little more than an orders delay.

Don't get me wrong, I love WEGO as a CMBO, BB, and AK vet. For anything larger than a reinforced company WEGO is practically mandatory anyhow.

However I find that at the company level and below real time is often a better simulation for the platoon that reaches the wood line and then can't seem to report in because the CO is busy listening to contact reports form 2nd platoon.

Of the platoon leader who is thrown into a hasty attack because, by god, they said we need to go NOW, we can't find the perfect route..sergeant, take your men through the woods that way, we need to move.

Of the defending machinegun team leader who sees that those guys just got into his flank but can't think fast enough to process that means a close assault is coming...largely helped by suppression.

For the forward observer who realizes he called cease loading, not cease fire, and 1 more round is coming in form those guns...but the assault boys just jumped up and started rushing anyhow.

It, in effect, creates the vast chaos that gets jammed on a limited net with limited information. At just about the right resolution for a company.

Actually I find the opposite. In Wego you make a plan and then for the next 60 seconds you watch it go horribly wrong without being able to do a damn thing except cry out at the inhumanity of it all as your teams get shot to pieces. In Real time you just go, "Huh wait I didn't know that tank was there" and hit pause as you decide on a new plan. Instantaneously everyone gets to react to the new threat. Now if you refuse to use pause at all, now your talking. ;)

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I prefer my single play WEGO because it is best suited right now for the game, but dabble around in RT because I see much more potential for the game for RT play. RT shines most, and is best played multi-multiplayer. CM is limited to 1v1 Real time. In regard to missing things in RT the game does seem to making steps to improve the RT experience. The added FoW icons, and adjustable waypoints do help, but there is more that I am sure BF has ahead to improve it further. In every explanation that I read in this thread as why one prefers WEGO play vs. RT there is a solution to make it more enjoyable to attract more to RT play. Once they do, I encourage all to try both types of play for different experiences. You can definitely enjoy playing both. One has a cliffhanger appeal, while the other is more of an adrenaline rush. Which style more realistically simulates the immersive feel of real combat? Since real combat happens in real time the answer is RT play.

The funny thing is my roots in wargaming are in real time play. I played only that with a friend bugging for some time to try CM. I was closed minded to turn based being only into the rush of real time games. When the game I was into finally died out I opened my mind to give WEGO a try. I was hooked after my first PBEM. Having played both styles of play I can say they both are equally fun, but are different experiences to be enjoyed. As it stands right now it is real time play, and it's support that could use the most work in improving.

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Actually I find the opposite. In Wego you make a plan and then for the next 60 seconds you watch it go horribly wrong without being able to do a damn thing except cry out at the inhumanity of it all as your teams get shot to pieces. In Real time you just go, "Huh wait I didn't know that tank was there" and hit pause as you decide on a new plan. Instantaneously everyone gets to react to the new threat. Now if you refuse to use pause at all, now your talking. ;)

With WeGo I can watch the history of all my task forces separately. When playing realtime sometimes I had a though that I should check my flanking force, how their approach goes. And they were already gone... I even had no idea what happened to them.

last think I miss with WeGo is sort of probe command. If a scoud goes under fire he should retreat. Now I have to watch him getting pounded for 1 minute, without even attempt to use a smoke.

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WeGo for me. I find that if have my forces spread across the map in real-time mode, I end up forgetting about some of them instead of giving them movement orders like I planned on doing. That, and sometimes you just want to see how your tank landed that impossibly long shot, the bazooka team that saved the day for your platoon by taking out that panzer, etc.

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