Mine Radius?

[Ted]

What is the distance or radius that there are mines around the mine marker?

(or does a mine marker represent one mine?)

I'm not exactly sure how they work.

[Rokko]

it works in a 8x8m square I believe

[womble]

it works in a 8x8m square I believe

Yup. The blast can reach further away, but they won't detonate unless something's in the same AS as them.

[Ted]

Thanks guys.

[Baneman]

Is there any chance in the future that we will get separate markers for AT and AP mines, because right now, once I've laid them and the battle starts ... uh ... sometimes I forget what's where ...

And it would be useful for planning during the battle ie. you see his infantry heading for your AT minefield, you know there wont be any disruption to them etc.

[Hister]

Is there any chance in the future that we will get separate markers for AT and AP mines, because right now, once I've laid them and the battle starts ... uh ... sometimes I forget what's where ...

And it would be useful for planning during the battle ie. you see his infantry heading for your AT minefield, you know there wont be any disruption to them etc.

That's definitely a must! Easy to code in so I'm surprised it was not added in 2.0.

[Sublime]

Speaking of mines, does anyone feel like they.re waaay to underused by both PBeM players are scenario designers? All my readings seem to make them way more commonplace than we seem to see.

[Michael Emrys]

Speaking of mines, does anyone feel like they.re waaay to underused by both PBeM players are scenario designers? All my readings seem to make them way more commonplace than we seem to see.

This is possibly an artifact of the game length and what is considered acceptable pacing. Clearing mines is a time consuming occupation. If you want to have a six hour game where the first five hours would consist of locating and removing mines.... Or you could go around the mines right into the kill zone of the ambush.

Michael

[Baneman]

This may also be a factor of their effectiveness ( or not ).

In a recent assault playtest ( we've done it about 4 times now ), my opponent, the attacker, has walked through the mine belts with ease - I only witnessed one mine "event" and while there may have been others hidden from my view in the dense forest, they have certainly NOT denied him any area of the map - and they are extensive, as befits a long occupied defensive position ( I'm not sure he even knows he's walked through them every time )

For myself wrt walking through enemy minefields, I recall a game a while back ( definitely 1.10 or earlier ) where I walked into one and was much taken aback ... given the rest of my army had already crossed that chokepoint. It was a great spot for mines, IF they had gone off when the first couple of squads had crossed, and not the last.

I'd have thought that the chance of a squad making it through a mine AS unscathed should be a tad lower, but this doesn't count as extensive testing of course.

[agusto]

Speaking of mines, does anyone feel like they.re waaay to underused by both PBeM players are scenario designers? All my readings seem to make them way more commonplace than we seem to see.

To me it feels like minefield are way not not dense enough but much to scattered. In most scnearios i ve played you can almost be certain that minefield are usually limited to single action grids and thus just go around them as soon as you have found them.

[John Kettler]

Ted,

I've had no direct encounters with mines in CMBN, but what you describe is nothing like what I dealt with in CMx1. There, waltzes in minefields almost invariably ended badly. As far as AP mines, the Germans used "S" mines (AKA Bouncing Betties to GIs) in Normandy. Not only could they cause multiple casualties via low airburst and the resulting cloud of flying ball bearings, but the Germans later shortened the arming wire to waist height. Morale plummeted, for obvious reasons!

Here's how the Germans did it for real, and the quoted standard dimensions, 80'x105', are obviously much larger than an 8mx8m AS. Note also the use of AT mines to protect the AP mine belt.

http://etloh.8m.com/strategy/mine.html

This is a detailed analysis of some of the German mine defenses at El Alamein. Note standard placement is at one mine for every two meters of front, but where they really wanted to make it smart, it became two mines per meter! I've substituted meters for yards, since the accompanying figures are in meters, as were the markings on the mine war in the prior link.

http://www.allworldwars.com/German-Minefields-at-Alamein.html

(Fair Use)

"4. MINE BELTS

These are usually 2 to h rows of mines deep, laid to a simple pattern by pacing, and at about 1 mine per 2 yard front. 2 mines per yard front is only found in road blocks, gaps etc."

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

I haven't used mines in a while, so I may be wrong, however, I recall that you can increase the density of sown mines by merely adding more on top of the same action spot.

If I get 10 AP mines and scatter them one each on 10 action spots, the odds of unit setting one off is somewhat low. If I put all 10 in one action spot, then I'm pretty sure the first man to enter will not exit.

At least, that's how I think it works.

Ken

[Sgt Schultz]

Overlap of mine tiles seemed to work well in tests I did back in 1.0.

While piling them directly on top of one another seems like overkill, overlap and use of bands at least three action spots deep will make sure the enemy knows his boys are in a minefield.

Scenario designers have to be extremely careful with mines to prevent gamey behavior that may "break" their battles. This usually involves having minefields that cannot be moved at setup, coupled with a few extra that the player may move.

QB players may not take the time to practice with mines, and may therefore feel they may be wasted/avoided too easily.

[John Kettler]

c3k,

If you're saying that you have to individually emplace mines, then I hardly know how to respond. At a density of, say, one mine per AS, that's 4X less than standard German mine spacing and 8X less than a dense spacing. No wonder people aren't suffering many casualties when encountering mines!

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

From a British veteran with mine clearing experience, we learn an "S" mine had a lethal radius of 50 yards or ~4x AS. Its incapacitation radius I therefore estimate as probably 6X AS. When one of those detonates, everyone anywhere near it should be unhappy!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/50/a4477250.shtml

This is an account of exactly the tweaked "S" mine I mentioned earlier. Call the term the British used for this configuration to be both apt and disturbing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/73/a2130373.shtml

Regards,

John Kettler

[poesel]

IIRC someone tested this and there are 8-12(?) mines per AS.

[womble]

c3k,

If you're saying that you have to individually emplace mines, then I hardly know how to respond. At a density of, say, one mine per AS, that's 4X less than standard German mine spacing and 8X less than a dense spacing. No wonder people aren't suffering many casualties when encountering mines!

Regards,

John Kettler

He's talking about single mine tiles (the "quantum" of mines in the game). There are multiple mines in any given tile.

What I'd like to see is the mine markers for the mines you've placed being just a little bit more obvious. No, a lot more obvious. When games can take a month to play, it can be easy to forget where you put mines, whereas the guys that have been defending the area behind them would be all too aware of where they are.

[John Kettler]

Ted,

That was "mine wire," not "mind war." I was referring to the marked piece of commo wire the Germans habitually used in laying minefields.

Regards,

John Kettler

[kensal]

Has anyone worked out whether once you mark an enemy minefield with engineers you need to worry about it further i.e. the AI will prevent your units randomly crossing over a marked minefield unless you specifically order them to do that?

[permanent666]

the ai will send them through the marked minefields

[womble]

Has anyone worked out whether once you mark an enemy minefield with engineers you need to worry about it further i.e. the AI will prevent your units randomly crossing over a marked minefield unless you specifically order them to do that?

You still have to worry about them. They are marked, not cleared, and moving Fast across them will probably mean your mean aren't paying enough attention to stick to the marked lane and they'll get blowed up. Moving Slow or Normal should be pretty much 100% safe, and Quick will be pretty safe.