Childress Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 No Napoleonic-style infantry squares for the MG module and no sale. What has it been? Twelve years? I've had it with you guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Patch to fix things and improve the game already purchased. $0 Upgrade to add features not previously purchased and never promised. $10 Customer who can't see the difference... priceless For everyone else there's Master Card and a variety of other payment options. Man, I am glad you still have a sense of humor about this. For me the complaints and being called names is getting old. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Here is some math for beelzeboss to try out: Standard Game Sales Model Charge $xx for the game Add some features after the game is out Stop support for the game 1-2 years later release a new game with a lot of new features for $xx CMx1 Game Sales Model Charge $xx for the game Add some features after the game is out Stop support for the game 1-2 years later release a new game with a lot new features but NOT in the same theater as the previous game for $xx Original CMx2 Game Sales Model Charge $xx for the game Add some features after the game is out Add more content for $yy Stop support for the game 1-2 years later release a new game with a lot new features but NOT in the same theater as the previous game for $xx Current CMx2 Game Sales Model Charge $xx for the game Add some features after the game is out Add more content for $yy Add support for continued new features for $zz NEVER CEASE SUPPORT FOR THE GAME Note that only the last example keeps support for the game you purchased going on indefinitely. Other game companies don't do that and up until now we didn't either. Customers have been begging us for 13 years for this, and now they have it. Which is why they are overwhelmingly happy about it! Here's some financial reasons why people like this: Non-Battlefront Game Generation 1 = $55 Non-Battlefront Game Generation 2 = $55 That is the equivalent of 5.5 Upgrades at $10 each. My guess is the Generation 2 game will have fewer improvements in it than 5.5 Upgrades of Combat Mission. So from a pure $$ standpoint customers are better off with our model. Especially because we offer extra content which doesn't have to be repurchased. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 OK, I will just reply this and I'll drop it I found this 3 pages ago. At least we keep our promises You guys are like sect here lol You accept everything BF and go through Ecstasy when they give you smallest bollocks and even want users to be thankful for their benignity cause they didn't promised to make this game better lol. When someone complain about Battlefront or game itself you say geez another troll. And when someone supports what we do people like you call them "fan boys", or "sect". Don't put yourself on a pedestal because it's way too easy to knock you off it. Dear Battlefront you are so generous. You didn't have to do this but you did and we are all grateful to you. Maybe we should make a statue or better an altar for BF. No need for that. Just pay us $10 if you like the features that cost us money to make. In every other game such thing is called patch. You are the only one who claims that patch is an upgrade because you didn't ever promised its contents. LOL Ooh! And with that mountain of evidence you presented, I stand corrected. You forgot to mention that all other game developers fix the problems their customers find and do not drop support only months after a release, then make a slightly different game the next year and require full retail price for it. Because in your fantasy world you might as well imagine that too. Customers who thinks that patch is so called upgrade... priceless You can continue to call the Upgrade whatever you want, even though just about nobody agrees with you. Wow, yes I know this. I have said that. Of caurse I don't have to buy it> but I have just bought this game recently and I can't play multiplayer because I have bought an outdated version of game! You got it? Sure. No plan is without it's shortcomings, and this is one of them. However, since you feel it is so important to compare us to other games... what happens if you bought Battlefield 2 the day before Battlefield 3 came out? And this 10$ is not so small for me. Maybe you guys are mostly in Western Europe or US and but in Eastern Europe with actual exchange rate I could buy Silent Hunter 5 or many other games or 10 bears in price of this patch. You can buy our Patch for $0, which sounds about how much your beer is actually worth if you can buy it so cheaply Sorry, we can not control relative value. For some $10 is cheaper than waking up in the morning, for others it is a week's pay. There's nothing we can do about that except keep the price as low as possible. Such is the downside of a global economy. On the plus side, at least you aren't limited to things only produced in your own country. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Steve, Starkly, but superbly, put. And the proof you guys know what's what lies in the incredible fact that CMBO is still selling almost 13 years after it first debuted! Would suggest you give remedial course for other game companies, but stipulate such training run a million dollars per attendee. One way to pump up the development budget! beelzeboss, Ten (10) bears for the price of the patch? Now, that's impressive! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 What we all want is CM covering WWII from '39 to '45 with all the regular and crazy stuff, with major and minor nations, desert and snow, fire and rain. This is a huge undertaking which requires money. You can either invest that money upfront, develop 10 years and come out with a game that enough people buy to pay your invest. Or you slice the cake up and sell it piece by piece. And with every piece you ask the customer if he likes it. And every piece pays the developers their food, drinks and diesel for the yacht. I'm trusting BFC to be able to deliver what we want (eventually) and I'm in favour of option 2 over 1. So I'm paying a fee for the continuing development of CM. And since I can also play it at the same time I'm happy with that model. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen_PL Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I found this 3 pages ago. At least we keep our promises sorry, I'm a little unreliable And when someone supports what we do people like you call them "fan boys", or "sect". Don't put yourself on a pedestal because it's way too easy to knock you off it. No, I didn't call any one sect or fan boy just because someone is supporting you. In fact I have supported you too... at least I have bought your game But I didn't started this. People here(not everyone of course) said something like geez another funny troll from the moon who is too stupid to realize obvious things(yes, not so literally, but it sound like this) that is ungrateful for your games and your efforts in improving it just like you will be doing favor for cusomers by making your games. I'm not reading this forum everyday. In fact I almost did not read about new CM until I decided to buy it And I have bought a game and afterwards i realized that i will probably have problems with playing multiplayer. Then after few minutes of playing i have found that for some reason such obvious things like movable waypoints or cover armor arcs were removed from the game and they will be not added in a regular patch, because you didn't promised such things. If I want it I have to buy "update". Maybe you guys think that this is not good reason to be angry and something is wrong with me but I was angry as hell. You can continue to call the Upgrade whatever you want, even though just about nobody agrees with you. Nobody here No wait, even here there were few of them. But yes I know they are livining in a world of fantasy like me, like everyone that don't agree with you As I said. I do understand your definition of patch/upgrade but as i said I don't agree. I don't care, probably you had too work very hard for many hours for it but it's content is somehow small(ok, you will say that it's not small but that is my opinion). Most things contained there are seen in other patches (in most games patch is not only thing that repair bugs but also contains additional, never promised features). And patches are traditionally free.(and that's not my fantasy world) So why you are surprised when there are people(specially peopole who don't live on this forum and don't read if everyday) who sees such 'upgrade' and are supprised that they must pay for it? Charge $xx for the game Add some features after the game is out Add more content for $yy Add support for continued new features for $zz I will be swinish It should look like this: Charge $xx for unplayable game(Normandy) Add lot of patches to make it playable Add few vehicles and maps for $xx Add support for continued new features for $zz aka payable patches Than make new game with few changes. In the end make 8 similar games with 4 modules each and payable, but sustaining life patches "beelzeboss, Ten (10) bears for the price of the patch? Now, that's impressive!" Jeez... I have explained those "bears". it was funny at the beginning but now it is not 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I will be swinish It should look like this: Charge $xx for unplayable game(Normandy) Add lot of patches to make it playable Add few vehicles and maps for $xx Add support for continued new features for $zz aka payable patches Than make new game with few changes. Shouldn't you just cut your losses then? I don't think they'll change their pricing policy and it's clear that you don't think their products are worth the price they are charging (even though you might enjoy them). Why give yourself so much grief about it? And on a personal note, seriously if you think the game is "unplayable" because it lacks this: Moveable Waypoints Ability to assign special uniform types for select units types on a unit by unit basis. Target Armor Arc Command Expanded Floating Icon Categories "Fog of War" Floating Icons 2D Editor Map Overlay Auto-Assemble Road/Wall/Hedge Tool Camera Jump to Groups Target Briefly Command New Rendering Shaders Bump and Normal Mapping Improved Framerates Pausable Realtime TCP/IP Mode then you seriously have way higher standards than me:). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen_PL Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, Normandy was unplayable and full of bugs until many patches were released and that was why I didnt buy it before. That's what I mean. Just like GTA IV ;P But this is not reason to be proud of this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, Normandy was unplayable and full of bugs until many patches were released and that was why I didnt buy it before. That's what I mean. Just like GTA IV ;P But this is not reason to be proud of this There were 3 patches (1.01, 1.10 and 1.11) released since the game came out in May 2011. I don't find this "many". I have played GTA4 () and to compare Normandy with the state of GTA4 is just silly. What made it so unplayable for you (and that was fixed?), Normandy that is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, Normandy was unplayable and full of bugs until many patches were released and that was why I didnt buy it before. That's what I mean. Just like GTA IV ;P But this is not reason to be proud of this This is mystifying to me. I played CMBN from day one (about an hour and a half per day for most days of the week). The game was / is entirely playable. I can count the number of times the game crashed on me with the fingers on one hand and still have fingers left over. Microsoft Word isn't that good. I have run into several bugs - and reported them here. But none that would make me not want to play. I have even reported a few modeling issues but again no where near being unplayable. Some things I hit even got fixed but I did not stop playing while I waited for patches. I am sorry to say that statements like "...Normandy was unplayable and full of bugs..." *do* seem like they come from the moon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, Normandy was unplayable and full of bugs until many patches were released and that was why I didnt buy it before. Then whatever you do stay away from CM:Shock Force. Don't do it! Stay away! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'm impressed by the progressively improving english vocabulary, idiom use, and grammatical correctness. Is that a language patch or upgrade? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Keogh Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'm impressed by the progressively improving english vocabulary, idiom use, and grammatical correctness. Is that a language patch or upgrade? I've noticed this as well. Odd how whining continuously about $10 can improve one's English skills. One can scream "It's a PATCH not an upgrade!" until the cows come home and it won't change Battlefront's position. Battlefront has informed us over and over again why they view 2.0 as an upgrade not a patch. One can accept their reasoning or not, but whining about it is not going to change anything and has gotten extremely boring. The bottom-line is that you don't need 2.0 to enjoy the game. I'm still playing with 1.11. The game is CTD free and very enjoyable and to say otherwise is complete BS. I'll definitely upgrade to 2.0 when Market-Garden is released, but for now I'm in the midst of a campaign and too happy with my current mod set-up to bother with 2.0. To me, 2.0 is just extra icing. Nice, but not necessary. If one HAS to have the extra features of 2.0 then you're going to have to pay for them. This is not hard to figure out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I've noticed this as well. Odd how whining continuously about $10 can improve one's English skills. Right. Have you noticed that foreign posters, with the the widest and most idiomatic vocabulary, tend preface their rants with an apology for their English? Well done, beelzeboss. Or did you mean Beelzebub? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Charge $xx for unplayable game(Normandy) As another person who played and enjoyed the game since the day it came out I find you definition of "unplayable" to be strange. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Streety sent me a priviate message stating, to paraphrase, that he was angry at how we treat people who come on here and complain, so he was quitting the forums. I typed out this reply, and then was given notice that he does not accept private messages. :-/ I don't like wasting my time, although I probably am, so gonna post my reply here. :-) Well, I hate to see you go, and hope that I did not contribute much to your decision. I might have been a bit harsh on the complainers, but I was getting quite tired of all this "tempest in a teapot" about $10. I disagree with what you say about all companies will charge all they think the market can bear. I seriously believe BFC is not trying to price gouge it's customers. If forum critics want to be treated with civility, then they need to voice their criticisms in a more constructive manner. Act like a child and get treated like one. And no, I don't really believe there are many people under, oh, 20 years old who play Combat Mission. In all honesty, if a forum member had made a civil post stating that they would like to purchase the $10 upgrade but simply could not afford it (instead of launching an attack on BFC), I would have probably purchased it for them, if I believed they were being sincere. Obviously, I wouldn't do this often (my discretionary funds are not unlimited), but once or twice in the spirit of Christmas would not have been out of the question. Instead, all I saw was attacks and whining. I hope you reconsider your decision to leave, but if you honestly dislike CMBN, then I really don't see why you even read the CMBN forums. I very much enjoy CMBN and CMFI, and feel that my investment in the WW2 CM series has been money well spent. As a comparison, I recently purchased the new X-Com game from Steam, which cost (I forget, but something like $50). It's a very good game, and I enjoyed it, but I finished it in about two weeks. I really don't have much desire to replay it, so I deleted it off the hard drive. I have a feeling that CMBN, CMFI, and all the other games and modules in the series will still be on my hard drive many years from now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen_PL Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Right. Have you noticed that foreign posters, with the the widest and most idiomatic vocabulary, tend preface their rants with an apology for their English? Well done, beelzeboss. Or did you mean Beelzebub? yeah laugh at me, but I think my English is quite good despite I have never ever learn it Beelzeboss is correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg_iz6yBu2I Forget about this patch/upgrade dispute. It doesn't change anything, that's true. But I like to complain and I like Combat Mission so I complain even more when something is not like I wanted to be But I couldn't understand (and still can't) for example why such things like movable waypoints or cover armors (which was some basic things in CMx1) couldn't be implemented in a base game, not even in a patch. You are saying this is something more which should be sell as an upgrade. And I'm asking why can't you sell finished game and then develop and improved it for money instead of selling your product sliced into pieces? Forget about previous version of Normandy. That was my opinion and it doesn't matter now. I found there too many irritating bugs and the engine was horribly optimized 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Forget about this patch/upgrade dispute. It doesn't change anything, that's true. But I like to complain and I like Combat Mission so I complain even more when something is not like I wanted to be But I couldn't understand (and still can't) for example why such things like movable waypoints or cover armors (which was some basic things in CMx1) couldn't be implemented in a base game, not even in a patch. You are saying this is something more which should be sell as an upgrade. And I'm asking why can't you sell finished game and then develop and improved it for money instead of selling your product sliced into pieces? Forget about previous version of Normandy. That was my opinion and it doesn't matter now. I found there too many irritating bugs and the engine was horribly optimized That's a valid opinion and your entitled to it. Still you haven't answered my question, what bugs made the game unplayable. Give some examples? And more to the point, what needs to be included in a game before you feel it is finished and how much would you be willing to pay for it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Forget about this patch/upgrade dispute. It doesn't change anything, that's true. It is good for you to finally acknowledge this. The majority of our customers have requested this path, and they have responded overwhelmingly positively to it. We are happy, our customers are happy. No reason to change the model because of a few people with unreasonable demands. But I like to complain and I like Combat Mission so I complain even more when something is not like I wanted to be But I couldn't understand (and still can't) for example why such things like movable waypoints or cover armors (which was some basic things in CMx1) couldn't be implemented in a base game, not even in a patch. Because these things cost us money to create. Did you pay for them with your original purchase? No. So if you say you shouldn't pay for these new features, who should? Companies which do not recover their costs from their customers go out of business. And I'm asking why can't you sell finished game and then develop and improved it for money instead of selling your product sliced into pieces? This is bad logic. VERY bad logic. No product is ever "finished". Do you think CMBO customers should get CMBN features for free? Do you think iPad 1 buyers purchased a "finished" product and should expect an iPad 3 for free? Should a person who purchased a Ford car in 2010 drive down to his local dealer to exchange for a 2013 model for free? Ridiculous. More bad logic... you think that the game you purchased should always have MORE in it, never less. If we included all the 2.0 features in v1.0, we would have not included other features you already have. That is because we have to recover our costs, and adding more costs without more sales means losing money. I am sure that if I offered to give you 2.0 for free, but would disable an equal value of v1.0 features, you would not be happy with that. Which again shows your position to be unreasonable. I will repeat... CMBN had a demo to play before you purchased. If things like moveable waypoints were so important to you, then you should not have purchased it. If you had not purchased it you could get all the v2.0 features "for free". Of course you would then make demands you should get the v3.0 features for free when that comes out. Forget about previous version of Normandy. That was my opinion and it doesn't matter now. I found there too many irritating bugs and the engine was horribly optimized I get the feeling your standards are unreasonable. You must not have fun playing games or, in fact, using your computer at all. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 And I'm asking why can't you sell finished game You want a finished game? Play CMSF and CM:Afghanistan. They're very nice games. And they're as finished as they're going to be. So they should make you very happy. Me, I'm playing a game that continues to evolve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindlewolf Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Now CMSF was unplayable on day one and this did take a few patches to get perfect but ended up a classic.CMBN unplayable and bug ridden on day one?No i don't think so,bugs and issues yeah but perfectly playable and enjoyable.Even better with each patch and the new upgrade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 No game is finished..you could always add more and more..and luckily for us BF does..for a very small fee..and fixes things for nothing..we are talking minor amount of money here..I'd understand if we where looking at $15 upwards but we aren't. Now look, now I'm derailing the thread to talk about money...though at least my request for info has been answered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 One more thing we are not a "sect" we are a cult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Those who play WEGO are in a cult whilst RT players are a sect. Or is it the other way round? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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