SlowMotion Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Has BF mentioned details about CMSF2 background story? When are those imaginary battles taking place? Compared to units available in CMSF would the new game have various unmanned machines already in air and land use? Like mentioned here: http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/12/11-robotics-military-singer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Most of them are outside the scope of CMx2. There are some small tactical UAVs we use, but I don't imagine they'll make it into the game for balance reasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I can understand leaving them out for balance reasons, but not because of numbers. CMBN has weapons that were built in much smaller numbers than US droid usage now which is just increasing. According to this http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/ There's been 350 droid strikes in Pakistan alone after 2004. And in Afganistan drones fly about 760 surveillance sorties per month (close to 25%), according to this http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/11/09-us-drone-afghanistan-shachtman In Libya: "Starting on April 23, American unmanned systems were deployed over Libya. For the next six months, they carried out at least 146 strikes on their own. They also identified and pinpointed the targets for most of NATO’s manned strike jets. " If you think about Israel they are continuously using drones for surveillance. And if Hamas and Hezbollah also use them, you could say they are in pretty wide spread usage. IMO this autonomous technology is a game changer and should be included if you want to make up to date modern sim. I would think that compared to CMSF scenarios in CMSF2 at least the US side wouldn't often meet situations where let's say some major group is approaching a village without knowledge whether there are military vehicles in the village or not. Droid usage could reduce the risk considerably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 One more example of these new systems becoming available: http://defense-update.com/20111109_apache-block-iii-controls-a-gray-eagle-uav-demonstrating-advanced-manned-unmanned-operations.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Dont forget as well, that CMSF 2 is set in the near future, so drone proliferation will be greater. Russians have developed a small tracked drone which carries alot of thermobaric anti-personell weaponry. These drone teams could also be purchased like specialist teams in CMBN. Drone recce could be done by calling it in like an airstrike, you hear the drone noise, and you immediately get some intel markers pop up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think it's very easy to see things turning to "robo wars". An army with enough money will try to avoid own side casualties by using all sorts of autonomous hitech weapons. How long will it take before things look like this (ignoring vehicle size)? http://themoviereport.net/2011/10/22/star-wars-episode-v/ I think my earlier link showing what Apache Block III can do already is like from sci-fi book already. Things have developed a lot during the last 10 years and I'm sure this will continue in near future. Actually found US Army's 25 year road map for this: http://www.rucker.army.mil/usaace/uas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 These drone teams could also be purchased like specialist teams in CMBN. Drone recce could be done by calling it in like an airstrike, you hear the drone noise, and you immediately get some intel markers pop up. One of the great things of many drones is that they can stay in air MUCH longer than normal helicopters and planes. Like 20 hours. So from an amateur point of view I'd try to keep those planes available during the whole operation so they can check areas to help ground forces with very short delay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Drone recon could easily be simulated using the intel strength.If a program could be written to allow intel to continue to be provided as the battle develops assuming your intel strength is over,say 70%. Certainfactors could modify that eg strength of air defences.BothBlue and Red could be allowed athe possibility ofpre engagement intel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'm going to speculate that drones will be in CMSF2 and will function in exactly the same way as (manned) air support in CMSF. I don't see why not or how it would be different. As far as intel goes, we already have the ability to add pre-battle intel that appears as the form of contacts on the map, but hopefully there will be some new functionality that allows loitering air support (manned or unmanned) to spot enemy positions during the scenario and relay the info as contacts on the player map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I would think that in the game the cost of drones would be lower than current air support and delay of calling strikes would be shorter if they can loiter nearby longer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I can understand leaving them out for balance reasons, but not because of numbers. CMBN has weapons that were built in much smaller numbers than US droid usage now which is just increasing. ... IMO this autonomous technology is a game changer and should be included if you want to make up to date modern sim. I would think that compared to CMSF scenarios in CMSF2 at least the US side wouldn't often meet situations where let's say some major group is approaching a village without knowledge whether there are military vehicles in the village or not. Droid usage could reduce the risk considerably. I never said numbers were a factor, the clearly are not. They left out MLRS/GMLRS entirely, map-fired arty/mortars, thermobaric TOWs, and various other pieces of gear that number in the hundreds, if not thousands. I would think that in the game the cost of drones would be lower than current air support and delay of calling strikes would be shorter if they can loiter nearby longer. The delay on air-support is working through the fire support apparatus. And the game is already hilariously fast compared to real life. IRL, if you only wait 30 minutes to shoot something with anything airborne, you're grateful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I never said numbers were a factor, the clearly are not. They left out MLRS/GMLRS entirely, map-fired arty/mortars, thermobaric TOWs, and various other pieces of gear that number in the hundreds, if not thousands. They did CMSF as the first CMx2 game. That's why they probably left out many things - so many things needed to be added to the engine. But map-fired mortars were added in British module. The delay on air-support is working through the fire support apparatus. And the game is already hilariously fast compared to real life. IRL, if you only wait 30 minutes to shoot something with anything airborne, you're grateful. I've read some books about how Apaches were used in Afganistan. Those stories gave me the idea that Apaches often had missions where they supported ground troops for long periods (limited mostly by fuel). Spotting enemies and giving fire support. No exact times were mentioned, but to me it sounded it didn't take anywhere near 30 minutes to use cannon/Hellfires/rockets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They did CMSF as the first CMx2 game. That's why they probably left out many things - so many things needed to be added to the engine. But map-fired mortars were added in British module. "Map-firing" means I take my forward observer, pick any point on the map and arty or mortars (or even aircraft) hit it. You can only do this with a TRP or during the setup phase currently. I've read some books about how Apaches were used in Afganistan. Those stories gave me the idea that Apaches often had missions where they supported ground troops for long periods (limited mostly by fuel). Spotting enemies and giving fire support. No exact times were mentioned, but to me it sounded it didn't take anywhere near 30 minutes to use cannon/Hellfires/rockets. If it was Sean Naylor's "Not a Good Day to Die", the Apaches were firing in self-defense first, at some HMG positions. A different set of fighting positions, including mortars and howitzers, were sweeping the infantry on the LZ with fire. The Apaches eventually got over to servicing the ground element's calls, but there was a delay while the helos cleared out. If it was "Victory Point" by Ed Darack, there was similar mention made of delays in getting CAS and a different service's artillery and how mortars filled the time-gap by helping keep them pinned while the support "ramped up" from 60mm mortars, to 81mm mortars, to artillery and finally JDAMs coming in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 If it was Sean Naylor's "Not a Good Day to Die", the Apaches were firing in self-defense first, at some HMG positions. A different set of fighting positions, including mortars and howitzers, were sweeping the infantry on the LZ with fire. The Apaches eventually got over to servicing the ground element's calls, but there was a delay while the helos cleared out. If it was "Victory Point" by Ed Darack, there was similar mention made of delays in getting CAS and a different service's artillery and how mortars filled the time-gap by helping keep them pinned while the support "ramped up" from 60mm mortars, to 81mm mortars, to artillery and finally JDAMs coming in. I was mostly thinking about book called Apache Dawn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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