The Weather Underground

[Sublime]

Hey all. Im wondering if anyone knows a lot about this domestic terror group. Yes I've wikipedia'd them.

I've currently having a debate with some people about them, and whether (no pun intended) or not they actually killed people during their string of bombings and operations.

I know about the police officer killed in SF in the pipe bombing attack - however that supposedly has been proven to have been a black militant bombing.

I also am not counting the accidental explosion in Manhattan that killed three bomb makers, nor do I count the ex Weatherman involved in the 1981 Brinks robbery with Black Liberation Army members that killed 3.

FYI Im not on the side claiming they were just misunderstood warriors who only did property damage. For example the bomb that accidentallly went off and killed three members, was intended for an NCO dance at Ft Dix. Being a military officers son, I could all to easily picture myself or my mother at such an event, nevermind my father who such an organization would have been ecstatic to kill. But I dont want a debate on politics, I want factual information about the group.

thanks!

[Michael Emrys]

I do not count myself an expert on the Weathermen nor do I wish to present myself as such. But if it counts for anything at all, I was already into my adulthood when they were active and followed their story both at that time and a couple of decades later when they emerged from hiding and began to release various versions of their story. So take this for whatever it may be worth.

My impression was then and still remains that they were not so much interested in pursuing a well thought out program that would actually make life better for people in this country and elsewhere as in engaging in narcissistic psychodrama. In this they had a more than passing resemblance to Adolf Hitler and the early Bolsheviks. They were young and had mostly had a pampered upbringing and I doubt that any of them had anything like the breadth of experience that would have enabled them to grasp the realities of life as most people experience them. What's more, I don't think they tried. As a result, all they had was empty posturings, which quickly got them in way over their heads.

Okay, you asked for facts and all I've offered is unsubstantiated opinions. But I lived through those times and personally witnessed a lot of the kind of thing I am speaking of. By all means, if this is a subject that truly interests you, keep digging. Who knows, you might end up writing the authoritative history of the Weather Underground.

Michael

[sburke]

I think I can give you quite a bit more info than you are going to find anywhere public. Let's just say I have had the misfortune to live in interesting times as the Chinese put it.

The motivations are something however you are going to find non quite so easily factored into a single viewpoint. Sylvia Baraldini for example was considered quite a hero for the Italian left.

The Weather Underground and it's eventual offshoots, The Prairie Fire Organizing Committee and the May 19th Communist Organization were a result of conflict within the left basically centered around a viewpoint that considered the White/European population as essentially a colonial power exhibiting all the effects that folks like Frantz Fanon would attribute to the corruption of their proletariat by the wealth accumulated in their society from the colonized populations. Those folks would take the position that the left in America had to break with that by directly contributing to the struggle of what are considered the colonized in America (Black, Latino and Native American populations) that were in direct military conflict with the US gov't. Considering the fighting at Wounded Knee and that the New Afrikan Independence movement and Latino struggles in the US were in the 70s increasingly violent (from both sides, the US gov't certainly committed it's share of violent attacks and outright murder in this period). The folks in the Weather Underground found it intolerable that the White left sat on the sidelines condemning any armed resistance that arose within those communities while taking none of the risk. Misguided or not those folks decided that someone had to step up and assume some of the risk as well to demonstrate if nothing else that there were those who would, as they saw it, "refuse the bribe of being part of the colonizing nation".

The Gov't certainly showed a particular level of hatred. Prison sentences for members of this sector of the left are easily 10x as high as a non political conviction would get for the same crimes. They were also segregated into the new supermax units and deliberate efforts made to undermine their health with the hope they would simply die in prison (Susan Rosenberg for example suffered severe health issues in the super max units).

Back to their motivations. Alan Berkman, one of those sentenced from May 19th was a doctor providing service for AIM at Wounded Knee. I knew Alan personally, his wife Barbara and first daughter Sarah whom he loved dearly. I am sure going underground was an extremely painful decision for him. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/nyregion/15berkman.html?_r=0

No he was not some young hot head not knowing the realities of life as you put it. Many of the folks in May 19th were very active with methadone treatment programs in the Bronx and were getting first hand experience of what life was like for a significant portion of the US population that most of us rarely see except on the occasional headline.

Were/are they idealistic fanatics? Yes and no. Comparing them to Adolf Hitler is a gross dis service. The US gov't certainly upped the stakes with their Cointelpro programs. Essentially the US took the position that the rule of law no longer applied in combating the Civil rights movement. Assassinations were not uncommon, trials were a complete farce with evidence being forged if needed (and it usually was as rarely were the charges real). Against that backdrop many organizations took the position that the US gov't had escalated to armed suppression and their choices were to respond or not in kind. I can speak from personal experience. While in a van returning from a convention in Chicago in the company of members of the Puerto Rican Independence movement, the vehicle I was riding in was sabotaged. According the the PA State Police at the scene of the accident, someone had removed the cotter pin from our right front wheel. The vehicle lost the tire on I 80 in NW Pennsylvania losing brakes and steering simultaneously. 2 people were thrown from the vehicle, the rest of us went down an embankment fortunately suffering no fatalities.

Let's face it. You are not going to find a very balanced treatment of the organization on almost any public forum and the left's own communications are usually so full of ridiculous jargon as to make it almost unintelligible to most folks. The Weather Underground was a product of it's times. At some future date maybe we will have a more balanced view of who and what they were, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Some of those folks are still on the run (Donna Borup for example is still on the FBI most wanted list.)

PM me if you'd like. Just curious why the interest?

edit -Regarding the debate about whether they killed anyone or not. Honestly as fractured as the radical left has always been (the scene in Python's Life of Brian was so on the mark in the ampitheater "splitter" that is was more true than funny) it may actually be very difficult to determine if that is true or not. Certainly there was a division between those who wanted to inflict only damage to property and those who did not have that objection and openly targeted or supported the targeting of what were considered to be viable targets. Did they may not be as important so much as asking would they and the answer to that is yes, some factions certainly would have.

[Affentitten]

I actually mention the WU in one of the classes I give on terrorism. But I'm no expert. I do like to mention the fact that they were succesful in setting off a bomb inside the Pentagon.

[Sublime]

Thanks for the replies. Afentitten I'd be interested if you have more details of the Pentagon bombing as I only just know that it simply happened.

Also how deep was Catherine Ann Powers association with the WU? Or was it simply she was an ex SDS member and came into contact with some WU members?

I also vaguely heard of a sniper attack on a police station in 'Cambridge'. is that Cambridge MA? There.s a lot of a Cambridges in the U.S., let alone the world.

Sburke, I'm pm'ing you, but there is certainly no need for secrecy on why I'm interested - I love history, and to that end Im a history major at UMass Boston. I have a class on 60's and we watched the recent Weather Underground Documentary so I got interested.

[sburke]

Thanks for the replies. Afentitten I'd be interested if you have more details of the Pentagon bombing as I only just know that it simply happened.

Also how deep was Catherine Ann Powers association with the WU? Or was it simply she was an ex SDS member and came into contact with some WU members?

I also vaguely heard of a sniper attack on a police station in 'Cambridge'. is that Cambridge MA? There.s a lot of a Cambridges in the U.S., let alone the world.

Sburke, I'm pm'ing you, but there is certainly no need for secrecy on why I'm interested - I love history, and to that end Im a history major at UMass Boston. I have a class on 60's and we watched the recent Weather Underground Documentary so I got interested.

LOL my interst in politics began in High School. In 10th grade one of the Books I read was on the Weather Underground and as far as I know isn't even available now. Probably released under some other title I don't recognize.

[Affentitten]

Like I said, I'm no big expert. The WU gets about 5 minutes in a whole semester in the week where we look at some fringe "Western Terrorism". So they're just lumped in with McVeigh, Unabomber, anti-abortion nuts and the Euros like Baader-Meinhoff, Red Cells, Brevik etc.

[sburke]

Like I said, I'm no big expert. The WU gets about 5 minutes in a whole semester in the week where we look at some fringe "Western Terrorism". So they're just lumped in with McVeigh, Unabomber, anti-abortion nuts and the Euros like Baader-Meinhoff, Red Cells, Brevik etc.

Man that is sad, but not surprising. One of the things that drove me nuts in history when I was in high school was we'd start every year in the same place and always end before we got anywhere close to current events. You barely even covered World War 1 and the depression before everybody was looking to summer break.

[Sublime]

Oh man you dont know the half of it. Even all the way through community college history classes were the standard ancient times to middle ages (pt I) middle ages to WW2 (if they got that far) (pt II)

and WW2 barely had any mention of anything except DDay/Holocaust/Nukes.

Sad.

UMass is awesome though, all my classes now (Early Medieval History, War in Vietnam, 60s, and Women in Ancient Rome) are fantastic. And I genuinely can say most days I go I learn new stuff. Especially in the first and last classes. I kinda already let the genie outta the bottle on Vietnam and the 60s years ago, though I should say that David Hunt my teacher in the Vietnam class is brilliant, and wrote one of the books assigned that covers RAND corporation interviews of suspected VC captured, and Chieu Hoi ralliers as well in the My Tho province. Fascinating stuff. Also was introduced to Working Class War by Chris Appy which focuses on the US grunts perspective. While the slang acronyms and backround is familiar, I hadnt heard these men's stories until now and it is a brilliant collection of anecdotes. And its a crying shame that many of the anecdotes start with the author trekking around Kenmore Sq in Boston until he found the homeless vet he had heard of.

speaking of Baader Meinhof I read a great book about them a couple years back. The Red Army Faction is very interesting to me as well. The IRA too. Its the wrong word to use, but theyre my 'favorite' terrorist groups to read about..

[Affentitten]

Well basically I have 11 weeks to teach a unit on "The Politics of Terrorism". You can't do everything! The WU isn't so significant compared to the IRA, PFLP, al-Qaeda etc. I would say that even McVeigh is more significant, even as a single act terrorist, because he would be more representative of a certain, more current, ideology.

PS: The Baader-Meinhoff IS the Red Army Faction.

[gunnergoz]

I'm sure the NSA is having a lot of fun chasing down everyone posting in this thread. (Hi, Mom!)

[Sublime]

Yes I know Baader-Meinhoff is the RAF. Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof. The names are interchangeable. Though those were just first generation members, and weren't around for many of the groups later actions...