moet Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 What you're not understanding is that CMFI is [deep breath] [dramatic pause] NOT an extension. It's a new game. The engine has had significant graphical upgrading, and as a result all the unit models, even the ones they already had in BN, have to be redone. There's an entirely new set of OOBs (which are a huge chunk of the work). There's a new army, and different skins for the old armies. And the engine has had interface improvements. It's been said before, but it's worth saying again: when did Microsoft ever allow the general public to upgrade from one version of Office without paying full whack? CMBN owners will get all those new v2 engine features with the oncoming update and all future families-modules will have them. So the CMBN owners don't have to consider it in their future purchases. You're mostly forgiven because English evidently isn't your first language. I hope my poor written English do not prevent people do understand what I mean. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm actually a big fan of Battlefront's new pricing system. Although it's kind of strange to say, you should always be worried when there *isn't* a way to pay a company that makes a product you like...since there is literally no other way to insure that they will keep making the products. And as others have pointed out, the price is really very low for any kind of hobby - if you go skiing for a week, you will easily spend much more than $500 and spend much less time doing the activity than I have already spent on CMx2. Of course there is the question of value...but I have played CMBN, CW, and CMFI more than any other Battlefront computer game I own, and will probably continue to do so. I've also discovered that I really like the tight focus of these titles. CMBN was, in many ways, all about the bocage. Something that I had read about for decades, but didn't really appreciate until CMBN. If battlefront (BTS was much easier to type...) had come out with a Normandy-Bulge title, I probably would have played a game or two in the bocage and then moved on to play mostly standard open games. But because they didn't, I spent months in the bocage (as it were) and feel like I have a much greater appreciation for the issues it presented. (There are some scenarios, in particular, that demonstrate this quite well). And then there's the CW module. Again, I don't think I would have appreciated the real differences between the troops and equipment if I hadn't spent so much time with the Americans...but as it is, it feels like a completely different game: it's more open, and the troops have different equipment. (Setting ambushes in wooded areas with the three man recon squads armed with two stens can be devastating; I can't wait for the later war german squads with a larger number of automatic weapons). And CMFI is again completely different - more primitive equipment, generally; Italians!; and far less cover than before means I have to use different strategies again. (Ones I haven't quite figured out yet. :-() So I feel like bf continues to give great value for the money, and I'm happy that they are providing me with the chance to get value by spending money. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 CMBN owners will get all those new v2 engine features with the oncoming update... Which is an absolute gift (at $10) for the amount of work that has had to be done. So the CMBN owners don't have to consider it in their future purchases. And that is relevant, how? We pay for the upgrade to v2; we'll have to consider upgrading to v3 when that comes out, and the frankly amazing thing, in this world of software development, is that we'll only have to pay a very nominal upgrade fee. I hope my poor written English do not prevent people do understand what I mean. Nope. We get what you're saying, but it does seem to be preventing you understanding what the true situation actually is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moet Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 There will be “big ticket items...” such as Normandy, Bulge and Eastern Front titles. There will also be “small ticket items... “ such as Sicily. Only some people will want all of them. I think special package offers could be a good path forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moet Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Which is an absolute gift (at $10) for the amount of work that has had to be done. And that is relevant, how? We pay for the upgrade to v2; we'll have to consider upgrading to v3 when that comes out, and the frankly amazing thing, in this world of software development, is that we'll only have to pay a very nominal upgrade fee. I'am only talking about new v2 features. Nope. We get what you're saying, but it does seem to be preventing you understanding what the true situation actually is. Well I don't share your point of view. The "true situation" does not appear the same to me. Am I allowed to keep a different opinion than yours? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Well I don't share your point of view. The "true situation" does not appear the same to me. Am I allowed to keep a different opinion than yours? Certainly. But don't get mad at me when I continue to purchase the games, even pre order as my addiction is too strong - no interventions please. As just one small example. I still boot up CMSF on a regular basis. I can't name any other PC game I purchased that long ago that gets the same treatment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 The alt strategy to BFC's modular approach is CM:Afghanistan, a third party title that apparently the developers never considered patching and expanding. You got what you got, with the exception of an early bug fix patch that was BFC-driven, I believe. Imagine if you got CMSF and that was that. No Marine module, no Brits, no NATO. You would've literally missed out of the best aspects of the title. It's not a question of either paying full price for a module or getting it for below the cost of development - that's not going to happen. Its a question of paying for a module or getting nothing at all. Doing nothing costs BFC no money, selling at below development cost would indeed cost them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I own a few guns, which are fun to look at and have (and imagine surviving a zombie apocalypse/Communist invasion with ). However, one day at the range can cost more than a CMx2 module or even base game. For the price of one new rifle I could pick up every CMx2 available plus modules and probably everything coming out in the next few years. Imagine surviving a zombie apocalypse/Communist invasion with only CMx2. Real weapons are real good when you need them but I would want CMx2 for the down time between the waves of ZEDs:D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 The true zombie apocalypse will leave us with no electricity. Sigh. I'll know it's a true emergency when I have to break out ASL rather than boot up any CM title. Damn zombies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Well I don't share your point of view. The "true situation" does not appear the same to me. Am I allowed to keep a different opinion than yours? As I said, you're not understanding quite how much has gone into v2. And it now appears that you don't want to, so we might as well ignore your ignorance and stop trying to help you. Bye. And pshaw to you guys that don't have generators ready to hook into the juice when the utility companies are overrun/de-staffed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Mmmm, I see that everybody don't bother about the business model of their beloved developer. What I point out is that Battlefront is making a particular commercial choice with the suites of CMx2. I agreed to their choices till CMFI. Now I don't accept that special way of pumping money from their fan, as they did with the WWII Strategic Command series. I wish you guys a lot of fun with the future families and modules, being worth around 500$ over the next 2-3 years if my calculations are correct, based on 4 families with 2 modules each. Just to say it - If I can expect 4 NEW families and 8 modules from whatever family over the next 3 years, I am gonna be piddling like a puppy out of sheer happiness. You realize that equates out to less than $14 a month right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Well, we'll still try to help him... but the march of progress moves towards the future. Or something. moet: I understand what you're saying, but your point of view has been brought up by many before you. In each case, cold logic determines that you are wrong. It is up to BF.C to price their product. It is up to each consumer to determine whether or not they will spend that amount of money on the product. If BF.C is right with their pricing strategy, they will profit and stay in business. If they are wrong, they will not profit and will risk going out of business. That is beauty of a free market (capitalist, for those who prefer that term) system. It is self-correcting. If you think these games should be made, and sold, for less, then you are FREE to create one of these games yourself, and price your labor and capital investment accordingly. Back to the more serious topic: generators? Sure, I stand ready, with my gas/diesel/propane backup supplies. But they are limited. I can only make so many forays into the zombie wilderness to obtain more fuel. Armored slabs on the surplus vehicles, going forth to grab fuel from tanker trucks on the highway, siponing from stranded cars, and sucking the dregs from gas station tanks, are all counterbalanced by the use of flamethrowers and molotov cocktails during the excursions. If I use 100 gallons to get 80, that won't help. My wind farm, solar cell, steam/hydro generation backup may not be able to keep up with the computer demands. Eventually, entropy being what it is, I expect failures of my components to bring me down to candles and ASL, all while spooning cold Spam into my gaping maw. My backup plan? I have 24 exercise bikes/treadmills in the basement. I plan on chaining zombies to them and placing bait in front of them. Their un-dead powered attempts at gaining the unreachable bait will turn the exercise bikes and treadmills. These are hooked up to generators. Zombie power. Yeah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Back to the more serious topic: generators? Sure, I stand ready, with my gas/diesel/propane backup supplies. But they are limited. I can only make so many forays into the zombie wilderness to obtain more fuel. Armored slabs on the surplus vehicles, going forth to grab fuel from tanker trucks on the highway, siponing from stranded cars, and sucking the dregs from gas station tanks, are all counterbalanced by the use of flamethrowers and molotov cocktails during the excursions. If I use 100 gallons to get 80, that won't help. My wind farm, solar cell, steam/hydro generation backup may not be able to keep up with the computer demands. Eventually, entropy being what it is, I expect failures of my components to bring me down to candles and ASL, all while spooning cold Spam into my gaping maw. My backup plan? I have 24 exercise bikes/treadmills in the basement. I plan on chaining zombies to them and placing bait in front of them. Their un-dead powered attempts at gaining the unreachable bait will turn the exercise bikes and treadmills. These are hooked up to generators. Zombie power. Yeah. Just stepped back inside from target practice (Dam Hogs!) out back in the woods. Like ZEDs only you can eat them instead of them eating you. c3k, With the abundance of gas being developed in the USA now you should consider gas as your fuel of choice. Might I suggest what works for us. No really! It all works as described and has been tested under real conditions. 27KW generator with 250 gallon tank (=200 gallons) @ 25 gallons / day with everything in the main compound and 2 outer structures running = 8 Days w/o a blink or conserving. Gas supplier is only 10 miles from our place so discounting trees blocking the roads (that is what tractors and good neighbors with Heavy Equipment are for) we have a week before we are without CMx2! Satellite internet = slow but works If the gas drivers show up from the zombie wilderness all infected, they don't leave with their truck. Then we have maybe a months supply or more! Got the water well down 110 feet to a clear aquifer with a 1.5 HP motor so when "public water" is contaminated we are not. Septic so we are clean. Landscape on the acreage forces "choke points" that are dialed in. Plenty of LIGHTS if I need. Outer perimeter fencing & gates and inner perimeter fencing. Lots more including real weapons and ammunition. All this says.... if you really want to play CMx2 bad enough in Da ZED Days... it costs more than a module upgrade but may save your life with all the LOZ practice you do between the waves of Undead. Peace, Buzz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moet Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 moet: I understand what you're saying, but your point of view has been brought up by many before you. In each case, cold logic determines that you are wrong. It is up to BF.C to price their product. It is up to each consumer to determine whether or not they will spend that amount of money on the product. If BF.C is right with their pricing strategy, they will profit and stay in business. If they are wrong, they will not profit and will risk going out of business. That is beauty of a free market (capitalist, for those who prefer that term) system. It is self-correcting. Of course. But I suppose that there some sale watchers at Battlefront who try to get as much information as they can on the consumers intentions, not only after they got the sales results. My opinion reflects the ones of a whole bunch of CM gamers (game partners that I'm not familiar with and that I never met) and who would not make any statement on this forum (I understand now why...). But anyway, I assume, and I wish that Battlefront's leaders will keep parts of my statement in mind. It is worth a try. If you think these games should be made, and sold, for less, then you are FREE to create one of these games yourself, and price your labor and capital investment accordingly. Is this the only way anyone should react to a business or commercial situation with which he feels uncomfortable : accept the product as is or make it himself ? Everyone is buying lots of goods every day and the business rules allow us, as consumers, to ask for better product or price. This is also part of the day-to-day business, isn't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I am with moet. This is the first installment I will not purchase right from the bat from BF. Maybe later as a bundle with modules with reduced price ..... no moral high ground or agenda - just sayin' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Of course. But I suppose that there some sale watchers at Battlefront who try to get as much information as they can on the consumers intentions, not only after they got the sales results. My opinion reflects the ones of a whole bunch of CM gamers (game partners that I'm not familiar with and that I never met) and who would not make any statement on this forum (I understand now why...). I don't think you have been exactly beaten up on this, just you seem to be way in the minority of those who actually participate in the discussion. I am not sure how you evaluate that your position relects "a whole bunch of CM gamers (game partners that I'm not familiar with and that I never met)". Maybe it's true, but maybe you are like one of 5 people. But anyway, I assume, and I wish that Battlefront's leaders will keep parts of my statement in mind. It is worth a try. Is this the only way anyone should react to a business or commercial situation with which he feels uncomfortable : accept the product as is or make it himself ? Everyone is buying lots of goods every day and the business rules allow us, as consumers, to ask for better product or price. This is also part of the day-to-day business, isn't? Well BF has to turn a profit to continue to make product and hopefully allow them to look forward to retiring etc. They did eventually drop down the price of the upgrade..sort of. I am not sure they really had a firm view of what it should cost, but when they eventually settled it was way below what the doom criers were saying ($10, $5 if you wait for the MG module). So there is nothing wrong with wanting a reasonable price. However the issue seems to be that you don't want reasonable. $55 for CMFI and all it's modules is very unreasonable and would drive BF out of business. You might have better luck if you started with saying modules maybe being $25 or $30. Instead you took what is currently a projected price of $160 and dropped it to $55. How is that being even remotely reasonable? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'd don't think you're going to find a Paradox version of CMFI sitting in a remainders bin for five bucks anytime soon. BFC learned their lesson the hard way on that with CMSF. Maybe a CM:Touch ipad version someday... or maybe not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 battlefront (BTS was much easier to type...) Try 'BFC' - that seems to be the accepted abbrev. these days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 The alt strategy to BFC's modular approach is CM:Afghanistan, a third party title that apparently the developers never considered patching and expanding. You got what you got, with the exception of an early bug fix patch that was BFC-driven, I believe. friggin shame too. definitely one of the more interesting theatres with almost limitless potential to expand. and just to think - the base soviet warsaw pact units are there to do fulda gap, and any other number of small conflicts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I had no idea you could get medical MJ in Arizona. Learn something new every day. If you want MMJ in here, hah, good luck! You'll be wrestling doctors and officials for years. And get harassed. And you still won't get it. Very progressive. But this is blatantly offtopic. More interesting then this babbling about the cost of games. Herbs baby! Herbs! Besides Cialis is much better for that extra boost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 moet, In your 1st post you say you have CM Touch. This implies you have a smart phone. I still have a non-smart phone and because of that I save around $50 a month. I only wish BFC worked faster and pumped out enough games/modules so I could give them the $50 I'm not spending on smart phone data costs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I still have a non-smart phone and because of that I save around $50 a month. I only wish BFC worked faster and pumped out enough games/modules so I could give them the $50 I'm not spending on smart phone data costs. Nice. p.s. Like King Crimson's lyrics in your sig. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 p.s. Like King Crimson's lyrics in your sig. FYI I'm at a King Crimson location too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moet Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 moet, In your 1st post you say you have CM Touch. This implies you have a smart phone. I still have a non-smart phone and because of that I save around $50 a month. I only wish BFC worked faster and pumped out enough games/modules so I could give them the $50 I'm not spending on smart phone data costs. Mmm, I think I should have entitled my post "New CMx2 business model" instead of "Too much money". All my statements are about that new model that appears not convenient for me. I don't bother about spending money for worth value. But no I don't have an iPad, my wife does, so I play sometimes on it. And 10$ for CM Touch is worth value, 55$ for CMBN is worth value, 65$ for Battle from the bulge is worth value, even 85$ for GGs War in the East may be worth value (not quite sure about this one). Their extensions are also worth value because they are less than half the core game price. If I was a totally newcomer to CM series and if I had to estimate the value of a game like CMBN, I would say it's 150$ worth, at least. I suppose that a WoW fan would pay 200$ for his beloved game. Anyone can trade its whole heart (and family life) for a very good game, CMBN being the best tactic level game of all time. But that is not the purpose of this post. Here, I look at CMFI as a very long time CM products buyer and I draw a conclusion from this point of view : for a CMBN owner, CMFI can't be considered as a new family core game. It obviously belongs to the CMBN family games and should be sold at an extension price. But I already said that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 FYI I'm at a King Crimson location too. Huh, I thought this is ELP location... and forgot about " In the court..."....nevermind Let's go back to Easy Money... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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