Too much money

[moet]

I'm used to buy every games I like. I already own the three CM2 games (Shock Force, Afghanistan and Normandy) and all the modules, and even Normandy Touch. I accepted to buy them as totally new games because those three games are very distinctive (different times, different theaters, different doctrines and armies).

Now it looks that if a want to continue to support Battlefront and enjoy CMx2 games, I'll have to pay a full game price (around 55$) for every "big modules" (called "families") to come, starting with CMFI. [i know that CMFI comes with the new v2 CMx2 engine, but I will pay for it when I'll get the CMBN update.]

At tactical level, like in WWII CMx2 series, the work to model a new theatre is about the same than creating a new module (ex. Commonwealth Forces for CMBN) : this mainly relates to new units-weapons and new maps-scenarios. This is specially true if the game covers only a part of the new theater (like CMFI) and hold some contents for future modules (may be British Forces or paratroopers?).

Of course, it needs hard work to make a big module, but IMO it does not, in the WWII CMx2 context, constitute the equivalent of a new game nor justify its price.

[MikeyD]

A lot of people here are hobbyists - kit builders. The Dragon Tiger II 1:35 scale. Fifty bucks. A simple button-down Oxford shirt at Urban Outfitters. Fifty bucks. Converse AllStar canvas sneakers. Fifty bucks. I've got old paperback books on my bookshelf marked $3.50 on the back, the same book with the same cover in the bookstore today is marked $17. The price of chocolate has gone up too. And I loooove my chocolate. Welcome to the new millenium.

[Vanir Ausf B]

At an operational scale, I could understand that a war game fan has to pay full price for each new big theatre (East Front, West Front, Mediterranean Front and so on), but even then, in most cases, the new theaters are covered by extensions sold less than half the price of the original game..

Panther Games has made 3 full operational level games covering the West Front 1944 alone. They are currently working on their first East Front game. It's not going to cover the entire East Front 1941-45.

[ZPB II]

No such thing as a free lunch. Content does not materialize out of thin air and I think a lot of people would be surprised by the amount of work that goes into creating a game.

55 dollars is a lot of money, but when put into perspective, everything is so very expensive these days.

The most expensive movie ticket here costs 16,5 euros. The last time I went to a theatre, it cost me a single CMx2 game. You can get two CMx2 games for the price of a decent seat at the opera. Feeling like a bungee jump? That's two and a half games. Even a most conservative stint at a weekend techno festival can end up costing four to six CMx2 games. Take a girl to a fancy dinner, oh my... Hell, I just had to pay 9,5 euros for a 10-condom pack. A litre of fuel is about 1,75 - 1,85 euros. That is some pretty expensive entertainment right there.

Don't get me started on the prices of the herbal and beer...

For me, CMx2 has been a bargain. I'm glad there's plenty of choices to pick from, one is not required to buy all the titles. I have though, but I'm addicted.

Besides, I'd much rather see the BFC boys floating around on a yacht than say, a stock broker or a rapper who has discovered autotune.

[Michael Emrys]

...IMO it does not, in the WWII CMx2 context, constitute the equivalent of a new game nor justify its price.

That's cool. It's your money and only you can decide what is and what is not worth it to you. No need to justify your buying decisions.

Personally, I agree with ZPB here. I think there is an awful lot of entertainment value for the price considering how many hours I get out of it. But that's just me.

Michael

[bobo]

Herbal?

We need a prescription here...

Bobo

[sburke]

Herbal?

We need a prescription here...

Bobo

So do we, but the "clinics provide their own "doctors". Get headaches, hmm we think we need to prescribe something... Appetite problems, hmm we think we can prescribe something.

[moet]

Mmmm, I see that everybody don't bother about the business model of their beloved developer. What I point out is that Battlefront is making a particular commercial choice with the suites of CMx2. I agreed to their choices till CMFI. Now I don't accept that special way of pumping money from their fan, as they did with the WWII Strategic Command series. I wish you guys a lot of fun with the future families and modules, being worth around 500$ over the next 2-3 years if my calculations are correct, based on 4 families with 2 modules each.

[ZPB II]

I see what you did there, that's kind of the fanboy card being played.

This is a hobby. Hobbies cost time and money. As far as hobbies goes, this is a somewhat inexpensive one.

Another hobby of mine is making music. It is a quite expensive hobby. Some of the manufacturers I like have software product catalogues whose total price far, far exceeds BFC's offering. I don't see that as them pumping that money out of my pocket. I see it as them offering a wide range of choices that I am free to either purchase or not.

You also have the freedom to decide if you want to purchase all the products, only some or none at all. And that's fine.

Playing the fanboy card is not fine. It's a bit lame.

If you want constructive discussion, please tell us in a constructive way at what point of the development cycle BFC is ripping us off and how. CMFI has one brand new army from scratch, existing armies had to be remade with new organization and graphics. The terrain graphics are new. It has a new version of the engine. And this is from a niche developer. Mainstream developers can charge you 20 bucks for 4 new multiplayer maps for an FPS game. And don't get that wrong, making a map for an FPS game is hellacious work. But still.

"I don't like something and everyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy" is not constructive discussion.

All the best.

EDIT: Oh, and. Just to make sure we are all on the same page. We are still talking about herbal viagra, right?

[slysniper]

Mmmm, I see that everybody don't bother about the business model of their beloved developer. What I point out is that Battlefront is making a particular commercial choice with the suites of CMx2. I agreed to their choices till CMFI. Now I don't accept that special way of pumping money from their fan, as they did with the WWII Strategic Command series. I wish you guys a lot of fun with the future families and modules, being worth around 500$ over the next 2-3 years if my calculations are correct, based on 4 families with 2 modules each.

Well at least you have done your math.

Yes it cost to play, and yes, Battlefront has decided to up the ante for playing. That is their choice and it is yours as to if you will pay it. if enough do not pay it, then BF has made a poor choice, if enough do pay it, then they have a successsful bussiness. Simple as that.

But I have more than $1000 in cost in a computer, which I upgrade to a new one every few years, then there is the cost of having internet service, which is Over $50 dollors a month. So That is $600 at least every year.

And you think I should be upset that they want to charge me for software to play this game, the only game which brings me daily satisfaction and enjoyment. A game that never runs out of options since I can always design something new in it or get work from others which are doing the same thing. A game that works so well at being able to play it at my convenious and not having to worry about hooking up online with someone else. A game i can stop at any moment. Go take care of R.L.matters and not feel like I have lost anything.

Personnally, I will pay for it. I wish I could get it for less, but who wouldn't.

But campaigning here that BF is charging too much for their work, which you really have no clue as to how much effort or work has gone into it or not into it, is not likely going to get you far.

But go ahead, express yourself. If you get them to drop their prices I will praise your name for years to come.

[moet]

I see what you did there, that's kind of the fanboy card being played.

This is a hobby. Hobbies cost time and money. As far as hobbies goes, this is a somewhat inexpensive one.

Another hobby of mine is making music. It is a quite expensive hobby. Some of the manufacturers I like have software product catalogues whose total price far, far exceeds BFC's offering. I don't see that as them pumping that money out of my pocket. I see it as them offering a wide range of choices that I am free to either purchase or not.

You also have the freedom to decide if you want to purchase all the products, only some or none at all. And that's fine.

Playing the fanboy card is not fine. It's a bit lame.

If you want constructive discussion, please tell us in a constructive way at what point of the development cycle BFC is ripping us off and how. CMFI has one brand new army from scratch, existing armies had to be remade with new organization and graphics. The terrain graphics are new. It has a new version of the engine. And this is from a niche developer. Mainstream developers can charge you 20 bucks for 4 new multiplayer maps for an FPS game. And don't get that wrong, making a map for an FPS game is hellacious work. But still.

"I don't like something and everyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy" is not constructive discussion. All the best.

I don't even know what you mean by "fan boy". I'm surely a true fan of CM since the beginning, as probably you do.

I say here what I don't like and why I don't like it : offering extensions as if they were whole new games and ask a whole game price for it.

My constructive point is this one : please everybody, ask Battlefront to be more reasonable and to not modify the business model they carried on till now since the first release of CMx2. Because with this way of offering extensions at the price of whole games, the strong bond linking the CM fans and the company since 15 years wil be disrupt, certainly for a part of the fans.

That what I think and believe, and I still hope that Battlefront will change their mind. A good way to do so would be to ask 55$ for all contents related to the Italy theater (CMFI and all future modules). That would be acceptable.

But you are free to have a different opinion and express it. The forum is the place for it.

[Smeel]

I guess this is more of a US problem, since 50$ translates into 330 SEK, which is a very reasonable price for a game! For comparison, I think I could get Diablo 3 for around 400 SEk or around that, so 60$.

Are games much cheaper in the US?

[ZPB II]

I don't even know what you mean by "fan boy". I'm surely a true fan of CM since the beginning, as probably you do.

I say here what I don't like and why I don't like it : offering extensions as if they were whole new games and ask a whole game price for it.

By the fanboy thing I mean ad hominem. Basically one doesn't listen to what another has to say because one thinks the other is a "fanboy/hippie/neo-marxist/republican/listens to ABBA/likes ice cream" and so on.

I was a bit hasty in playing the double-contra-fanboy card. I have a mild concussion and quite the fever, so I'm easily irritated.

I agree about the side effects, the community fragmenting and so on. But it seems like an inevitable thing that happens with everything when stuff expands and more variety is added. I guess there are ways around this, but.

The big opinion difference is that I don't personally see CMx2 full price products as mere extensions. My opinion stems from having developed content and having fiddled around with game development. Content is content. Some people don't accept writing as legitimate work! I can only imagine the horror that is doing historical research and trying to please a grognard audience.

[bobo]

EDIT: Oh, and. Just to make sure we are all on the same page. We are still talking about herbal viagra, right?

[ZPB II]

Not for me...

I had no idea you could get medical MJ in Arizona. Learn something new every day. If you want MMJ in here, hah, good luck! You'll be wrestling doctors and officials for years. And get harassed. And you still won't get it. Very progressive.

But this is blatantly offtopic.

[sburke]

My constructive point is this one : please everybody, ask Battlefront to be more reasonable and to not modify the business model they carried on till now since the first release of CMx2. Because with this way of offering extensions at the price of whole games, the strong bond linking the CM fans and the company since 15 years wil be disrupt, certainly for a part of the fans.

Hi moet,

I did understand your point, but no I don't accept your reasoning nor do I intend to follow your suggestion. As everyone else has noted, the relative cost of CM and the amount of enjoyment I get out of it make it the best value for the money I get from any entertainment media around. Here is how I evaluate BFs pricing and business model:

1 Do I get my money's worth out of what I spend on the game?

Assuredly so- the cost of CM comes out to pennies per minute when I see how much I play it. (actually fractions of pennies, but that is higher math )

2 Is the profit on the product enough to keep CM in business?

I don't really know how well BF is doing, but all indications are they are healthy and I can expect to see them around for quite a bit.

3 Are idiots still lining up around the block to buy the latest iPhone with very little reason to actually have to upgrade?

Yeah this probably has very little to do with evaluating CM- but it is interesting to see how people will spend a honkin lot more money and feel it is totally justified.

A good way to do so would be to ask 55$ for all contents related to the Italy theater (CMFI and all future modules). That would be acceptable.

If BF did that CMFI would likely be the last game they produced. You'd better really like that game as it'd be the last BF product you'd be able to buy.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

This has probably already been said, but just in case...

Battlefront is not expecting all their fans to buy all their CM titles/modules in the new CMX2 format. Happily the production line is warming up, coming up to speed and relative to times past there will be an avalanche of titles and modules. Just buy the ones you want.

There will be “big ticket items...” such as Normandy, Bulge and Eastern Front titles. There will also be “small ticket items... “ such as Sicily. Only some people will want all of them.

“If” it is a setting you really enjoy, that takes the imagination, they are fantastic value per hour of enjoyment. But particularly given the hard times some will think “having the full set....” even though some titles will hardly be touched, is too expensive.

But it can only be a good thing that we will from now on have a rapidly increasing choice.

If you look at the competition we are lucky to have CM at all....

All the best,

Kip.

[poesel]

I wish BFC would be more like EA. Those are real upgrades:

http://www.nintendo-gamer.net/2012/09/27/fifa-13-wii-vs-fifa-12-wii-the-shocking-truth/2/

44€ for new coloured socks and all the resources that went into researching the new names are well worth it.

[HARI SELDON]

Moet:

I understand your point. However like most here, I believe the cost of CM-2 is fair and as long as BF provides new content and updates I will continue to purchase them.

I guess you don't play ASL? When I think of all the ASL products I've purchased (many times multiple versions), CM-2 seems VERY INEXPENSIVE by comparison.

[womble]

I say here what I don't like and why I don't like it : offering extensions as if they were whole new games and ask a whole game price for it.

What you're not understanding is that CMFI is [deep breath] [dramatic pause]

NOT an extension. It's a new game. The engine has had significant graphical upgrading, and as a result all the unit models, even the ones they already had in BN, have to be redone. There's an entirely new set of OOBs (which are a huge chunk of the work). There's a new army, and different skins for the old armies. And the engine has had interface improvements. It's been said before, but it's worth saying again: when did Microsoft ever allow the general public to upgrade from one version of Office without paying full whack?

My constructive point is this one : please everybody, ask Battlefront to be more reasonable and to not modify the business model they carried on till now since the first release of CMx2.

Unfortunately, that's not a "constructive point". It's a whine. An ill-informed one.

You're mostly forgiven because English evidently isn't your first language.

[Erwin]

+1. Given the amount of pleasure hours/days/years that each CM game has offered, the price is one of the biggest bargains out there.

My only thought is that I would prefer to wait until all modules for a particular CM family to be completed and ready for play (and pay $150 or whatever for it).

When one plays an early version it's like playing a beta. However, by the time the game has its final patches and modules, one has gotten so much gameplay out of it, it's boring, and then one is on to the next family. I find that unsatisfying.

[slysniper]

Moet:

I understand your point. However like most here, I believe the cost of CM-2 is fair and as long as BF provides new content and updates I will continue to purchase them.

I guess you don't play ASL? When I think of all the ASL products I've purchased (many times multiple versions), CM-2 seems VERY INEXPENSIVE by comparison.

What a lie

Just turn around and sell them while you can.

I played them things for close to 20 years and then I parted with them and had more money in my pocket than I ever spent on them. One of the few great moments in my life when I found I had something worth more than when I bought it new.

[Georgie]

We can thank our lucky stars that BF survived their lean times of CMx1. CMx1 was good but I'm thankful that CMBN is here and I am willing to pay the additional cost to make sure more like it are in our future.

[HARI SELDON]

What a lie

Just turn around and sell them while you can.

I played them things for close to 20 years and then I parted with them and had more money in my pocket than I ever spent on them. One of the few great moments in my life when I found I had something worth more than when I bought it new.

I will never sell my $1,000's of dollars of ASL gear. It is going with me to my grave. I continue to buy everything new and never play it! I guess I need help.

[Ranger33]

For the amount of hours I get out of them, there is no other game or series that comes even close to CM in terms of value. The disc for CMBB didn't leave my computer for well over a year. Maybe BF need to include a feature like to count hours played like Steam and MMOs have. Then you can see just how much time one can sink into these games.

Compared to other hobbies, it's even more bang for the buck. I own a few guns, which are fun to look at and have (and imagine surviving a zombie apocalypse/Communist invasion with ). However, one day at the range can cost more than a CMx2 module or even base game. For the price of one new rifle I could pick up every CMx2 available plus modules and probably everything coming out in the next few years.