noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 So lucky slaves should not be called slaves? Well your not in power so i guess you are a lucky slave, so slaves shouldn't rag on slaves, ok ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I prefer "Down and Dirty" because i like gripping. I like to be absorbed. Sounds like my kind of night 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Well your not in power so i guess you are a lucky slave, so slaves shouldn't rag on slaves, ok ? No because, the worst enemies of freedom are the lucky slaves and i'm not a lucky slave. I'm an unlucky slave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 No because, the worst enemies of freedom are the lucky slaves. No, the worst enemies of freedom are, the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few, and you told me that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I really liked Saving Private Ryan, therefore I'm an idiot who can't think for myself. Wow, o.k. then. It seems odd to me that people on an entertainment website are calling out people for enjoying entertainment products. Battlefront is clearly manipulating our brains, and we are all pawns in their money making scheme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Battlefront is clearly manipulating our brains, and we are all pawns in their money making scheme. I prefer to think of it as a gigantic experiment in behavioral psychology. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I really liked Saving Private Ryan, therefore I'm an idiot who can't think for myself. Wow, o.k. then. It seems odd to me that people on an entertainment website are calling out people for enjoying entertainment products. Battlefront is clearly manipulating our brains, and we are all pawns in their money making scheme. You are wrong, you are a better person if you spend all day playing chess than if you spend all day watching Big Brother, and also, with Chess, you get to feel some wood 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I'm also going to support Saving Private Ryan. It was a great WAR movie ... not just a great movie ... but a great WAR movie. If you look at the WWII movies prior to it, they all seem sanitized. I think this movie really captured what many soldiers tried to express in numerous "down and dirty" books previously. Saving Private Ryan finally got this emotion expressed to a HUGE audience that would have never experienced this otherwise. There are stories of WWII vets having to leave the theater or having anxiety attacks at certain points in during the movie!! ... not because they were appalled at the gore and violence ... not because they were pissed because the Tiger was a mockup of a T34 ..... They got stressed because they felt absorbed in that hellish atmosphere again. I think the previous HUNDREDS of WWII movies prior to SPR had us believe somehow that WWII was more sanitary and clean than Vietnam. That somehow WWII bullets just caused guys to flail their arms and fall down. That somehow explosions just caused a guy to jump up and be dead. That somehow WWII soldier's bitching and groaning and suffering just amounted to not having dry socks and not having hot chow. If you want facts and pure history ... watch documentary films. They will provide facts and a good documentary also provides great DRAMA ... real drama. If you want a good movie that also expresses history, there are plenty of "Down and Dirty" movies that succeed in doing this. .... And Saving Private Ryan is a shinning example of this. .... maybe just the simple fact that SPR more completely explained the personal effects that WWII combat had on an individual human is one of the greatest historical contributions any WWII film has done .... Not even documentaries succeed in this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 No, the worst enemies of freedom are, the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few, and you told me that. That's like complaining that water is wet. You as person can't change this, but you can prevent to become wet. If a house is burning, do you stay inside because houses can burn, or will you get out and fight the flames? It's that simple: Slaves that do not fight for their freedom do not deserve it. Slaves that are happy with their status, or do not even recognize their enslavement, do not deserve freedom, too. Otherwise they would have recognized their situation. The escape from this slavery also lies not in consumerism. Consumerism makes things worse: Not wasting money, the most important resource in this system to buy freedom, reduces dependence on the powers that be, but becoming wealthy and financially independent increases freedom. Consumerism means the slaves are digging their holes even deeper because they are wasting the most important resource to get more freedom: money. Although financial freedom doesn't lead directly to power, at least it allows to be no longer on the losing side and it opens a lot of possibilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I prefer to think of it as a gigantic experiment in behavioral psychology. Michael I concur....squeek, squeek !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 That's like complaining that water is wet. Don't try and get me to believe water is wet, it's not, it's dry, and everybody knows that ! You can't change this, but you can prevent to become wet. If a house is burning, do you stay inside because houses can burn, or will you get out and fight the flames? I'll stay inside please, far better than trying to put the fire out with dry water ! It's that simple: Slaves that do not fight for their freedom do not deserve it. Slaves that are happy with their status, or do not even recognize their enslavement, do not deserve freedom, too. Otherwise they would have recognized their situation. Why should slaves fight for their freedom when someone else will do it for them ? I mean, imagine being a slave in ancient times, and you say to another slave, it's awful being a slave, let's do something about it, then that slave says "Spartacus will be along in a minute, so what's the point" The escape from this slavery also lies not in consumerism. Consumerism makes things worse: Not wasting money, the most important resource in this system to buy freedom, reduces dependence on the powers that be, but becoming wealthy and financially independent increases freedom. Consumerism means the slaves are digging their holes even deeper because they are wasting the most important resource to get more freedom: money. Well it's their choice, what more can you do, people should be free to become slaves, if that's what they want. Although financial freedom doesn't lead directly to power, at least it allows to be no longer on the losing side and it opens a lot of possibilities. Tell that to Mohamed Al-Fayed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 For what it's worth, the US Army uses/used the SPR Normandy landing scene to demonstrate the most realistic depiction of the chaos of war (and how to lead/function in that environment) that they could find. However, there is a big difference between verisimilitude and "reality". Reality is often boring. Entertainment is full of drama, emotional content, conflict, clash of egos and theories of life - so basically, this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I concur....squeek, squeek !!! "S-q-u-e-A-k" R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Hi, Mum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thank you Bigduke6 - bloody uneducated peasant mice - they let just anyone in the maze these days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Irked Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I really enjoy AAR's for my entertainment and they are all works of a fictional setting with many historical anomalies and "poetic licence". It's all storytelling just like the movies and Shakespeare and live theatre. These are art or forms of it and like any art it is subjective. I can enjoy a school play with bad props and costumes because its entertainment. I can imagine a friend in intermission of a professional play based in a historical setting going off in the lobby about how the sword was not exact for the year that the story was set in because the handle was not knurled properly for that time period therefore the play is crap. It would be like going to a comedy club with Mr. Spock It's an expression of human creativity and with it comes all the baggage of the creator. You want real... go to a military museum, guess what... you will find art there too. (This post is not directed at any poster.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 "S-q-u-e-A-k" R Mice can't spell, everyone knows that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 No image of a 'perfectly accurate panzer' ever brought a tear to my eye, but the butterfly scene at the end of "All Quiet on the Western Front' did. An excellent point, very well put. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Hello again, back after an exciting evening! First off, I'd like to say that when I came to this thread and saw a poster whom I perceive as always being polite and well-spoken being slandered. This ruffled my feathers in the same sense as walking into your favourite bar to have a good time and there's a fight going on. I first started reading this forum when I was, uhh, I don't even quite want to think about how many moons ago that was...When was the beta demo? I think I might have been 13. I spent a lot of time in the CMHQ chat and we played a lot of different games with voice communication. My age meant that I quite quickly assumed the role of an agent provocateur, the junior in the group. I'm not nearly as much of a rascal these days, but there's still a bit left. My postings regarding the topic were meant to touch the subject on the level of society and economics on an evolutionary scale. I read through them again and there are parts that might sound like going personal when misinterpreted and taken out of context. That certainly was not the intention. I edited in some bits as I was taken by surprise how quickly the thing spiraled to the personal level and felt I had to mount a forlorn defense in order to maintain credibility. I'm certainly not insulted in the slightest, merely amused and a wee bit surprised. EDIT: I'd like to add that I love SPR. I was very young when I saw it and it had a powerful impact and certainly changed my view on things. I'm not advocating that everyone should be watching silent Swedish art noir war flicks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Steiner14, I suppose it was inevitable, but JonS and I are on the same side of the argument re following orders. Not only only are there times when you don't have to follow orders but are specifically required not to! Please see here. http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm Bigduke6, I wasn't saying Slavs generally had double chins. I was saying their faces were more rounded, might therefore read as fat to people not up to speed on Slavic ethnic features. Sharpe is, in my estimation, the right way to produce officers, and the Bundeswehr agrees. That is why officer trainees go through a crash version of starting in the mailroom, starting as a Landser and rapidly passing through feldwebel, before ever being allowed to command anyone as an officer. In this way, the officer corps knows what it's like for the enlisted troops. The British Army in the Peninsular Campaign in Spain was full of officers who had the means and connections to buy their commissions, even if they knew nothing of leadership or war. This is stated explicitly here, page 1. www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/history_of_rmas.pdf All, I forget who initiated the discussion about passively consuming media. My friends and I were way on the other end, more like hyperanalytical. We went to see "The Light Horsemen," and throughout the film there was a low murmuring going back and forth among us (yes, bad behavior I wouldn't exhibit or tolerate today) in which the film buff critiqued the cinematography, another the set design and such (freaked over an in frame mic), and myself the weaponry, which was pretty impressive. I find myself doing a running dissection of most things I watch, applying all sort of criteria on the fly. Technically right? What agenda's being advanced? What mood are they trying to create in me and why? How does this track with what I already know or believe to be true. Layers upon layers of this, unless I simply want to be mindless, given that my brain gets practically worked to death with what I do now and needs a break eventually. Marcus Aurelius, the great philosopher and general, said "The unexamined life is not worth living," to which my corollary is "The overly examined life is no life at all." Restated, it IS possible to be too switched on, to the point where it actually saps the enjoyment one would otherwise get from certain experiences. Am sick unto death of Dauntlesses endlessly bombing Battleship Row, of gun camera footage showing the wrong kind of MiG, of France 1940 Panzers pouring forth from the Ardennes in a Bulge doc, and these aren't even the worst. For that, you have to go to the History Channel and watch Lusitania coverage. There, they repeatedly present the Lusitania lie "unarmed passenger liner torpedoed by perfidious, murderous Huns," when they know perfectly well that both period documentation and dives on the wreck have conclusively established she was carrying not only war materiel, but considerable quantities, was built as an AMC (Auxiliary Merchant Cruiser) and had the installations in place to take 6" deck guns. She was a legitimate target by virtue alone of carrying war materiel. Never mind the AMC side of things. Makes me want to scream! Care to guess what's STILL in the textbooks? Wiki has part of the story, but there's much more to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 General Lee Irked, How did you feel about the wristwatches and sneakers on some the the people in the Kirk Douglas version of "Spartacus?" Would you like Val Girl Speak in a World War II film? Frankly, I'm beyond tired of British playing Germans while sounding like British. We know perfectly well there are English speaking German actors who can sound German. Why do we see so few? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Irked Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 General Lee Irked, How did you feel about the wristwatches and sneakers on some the the people in the Kirk Douglas version of "Spartacus?" Would you like Val Girl Speak in a World War II film? Frankly, I'm beyond tired of British playing Germans while sounding like British. We know perfectly well there are English speaking German actors who can sound German. Why do we see so few? John Kettler I really enjoyed the Kirk Douglas Spartacus for what it was.(Of course we all know Spartacus Blood and Sand/Gods of the Arena/Vengeance series is pure TV from the Gods. And by Jupiters C$#k I will slay any man who disagrees ) So many films have continuity and or anachronism errors that it does not bother me for the most part. Sometimes its just too funny like the potato in Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back I suppose if Indie film makers made more war films we would see more germans being germans. I just enjoy the entertainment And Valley Girl talk in A WWII film... yes!! especially if it is a new Blackadder film. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 even bad movies can be good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Excuse me, is the the Pearl Harbor Movie Fan Club? (Ducks and runs for cover.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Frankly, I'm beyond tired of British playing Germans while sounding like British. We know perfectly well there are English speaking German actors who can sound German. Why do we see so few? One place where I give A Bridge Too Far points is that they hired German actors to play the major German characters. Of course, they also hired a British actor to play a Dutch doctor, but since Olivier could play just about anything convincingly, that didn't matter too much. Something similar could also be said of Liv Ullmann. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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