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Axis Side - 20 000 point Quick Battle DAR


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344Minute124Orders-QuietOrchard.jpg

3 Company advancing along the river. Now that the Churchill facing them has backed off the infantry can advance along the tree line supported by the Panther on the road. On the other treeline next to the field the operational Panther needs a bit of a break and its supporting infantry are fine where they are.

345Minute124Orders-BridgeHeadAdvance.jpg

1 Platoon HQ from 2 Company arrives at a spot where it can call in 81mm mortar fire on the Achilles tank destroyers on the opposite ridge. The off board 81mm mortars are out of range. Wow I have never seen that before. That is what we get for such a large map.

346Minute124Orders-CallOnAchillies.jpg

Advancing on the town starts in earnest. The lead platoon will follow the tree line towards the barns on the outskirts of the town. The Panthers and Stugs will follow close behind. The other platoons from 1 and 2 Company move forward as well. There are five platoons, three Panthers and three Stugs moving forward at once.

347Minute124Orders-BeginAssault.jpg

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The advance into town gets under way this turn.

348Minute124-123-AdvancingToTown.jpg

The barrage nets me a mystery prise…

349Minute124-123-BarrageHit.jpg

Something is smoking in there. A lucky break.

350Minute124-123-Something.jpg

Meanwhile at the other road into town I can see tanks fleeing the barrage.

351Minute124-123-Blocking.jpg

Over by the river crossing things are quiet this turn.

5 Company in the orchard manages to score a hit with its 81mm mortar on one of the Churchill tanks. Sadly it has not visible effect.

353Minute124-123-HitNoEffect.jpg

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I send a Stug armoured car hunting. They will shoot and scoot forward to try and take out the spotted armoured car.

354Minute123Orders-HuntingAC.jpg

At the river crossing the advance continues along the tree line.

355Minute123Orders-Advancing.jpg

Same thing at the town entrance 1 Company and supporting armour move forward.

356Minute123Orders-HeadingToTown.jpg

Now that the main 150mm barrage is well under way I have moved the FO team to a location they can get eyes on the ridge with the Achilles. Since my attacking force is getting close to the town it is almost time to call a cease fire for the first battery. Once they are freed up the FO will sick them on the Achilles position.

357Minute123Orders-Shift.jpg

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On the approach to the barns at the edge of the town my lead squad and Panther meet an enemy tank crew.

358Minute123-122-FirstResistance.jpg

They are dispatched quickly but not quietly.

359Minute123-122-Deltwith.jpg

The Stug that moved forward to cover the open ground near the barn was not protected from the Churchill like I thought it would be. Down another Stug.

360Minute123-122-AnotherLoss.jpg

The trailing Panther spots some scouts in the barn my men are heading towards. A couple of HE rounds later the barn is quiet.

361Minute123-122-TargetInBarn.jpg

Meanwhile on the far right flank the Stu42 crews are trying to seek cover in the nearby barns. They do not make it.

362Minute123-122-RightFlank.jpg

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Meanwhile over near the river, confusion reigns. My lead element find scouts in the trees and a fire fight ensues.

363Minute123-122-RiverResistance.jpg

During the fire fight the enemy ends up surrounded. Note German soldiers on the far left and right.

364Minute123-122-Surrounded.jpg

The guy on the left throws two grenades back toward the enemy. Both skip past the target and end up dangerously close to his own buddies. There were no Blue on Blue casualties but the team is pinned and cowering. I am going to guess someone will be taking out behind the wood shed after this is over.

365Minute123-122-AlmostBlueOnBlue.jpg

The rest of the platoon advance.

366Minute123-122-AdvancingAlongRiver.jpg

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Over in the orchard the Stug that was armoured car hunting comes under fire and gets hit. Thankfully it is still operational. The question will be can it get out of the line of fire before it gets hit again.

367Minute123-122-StugDestroyed.jpg

Enemy scouts approach from the river and the shooting starts.

368Minute123-122-ScoutsAppoach.jpg

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I order a Strummel forward to throw some HE at the approaching scouts and their supporting armoured car. Just briefly though then back to cover.

369Minute122Orders-ShootScouts.jpg

The river crossing force continues its advance.

370Minute122Orders-AdvancingAlongRiver.jpg

At the town entrance the first soldiers have orders to start clearing buildings. Meanwhile their supporting Panthers go Churchill hunting.

371Minute122Orders-AttackChurchillAndBarn.jpg

Overlooking the town, since the artillery has scared a few Churchill tanks out of the town I order some Stugs to reposition to protect the flank.

372Minute122Orders-FaceTheFlank.jpg

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The assault on the town is progressing. The lead Panther spots and destroys a Churchill after coming under fire itself.

373Minute122-121-LeadPantherScores.jpg

Shortly thereafter two more Churchill tanks are spotted. The Panther is hit multiple times but is undamaged. The crew however is a bit freeked out and show as pinned.

374Minute122-121-LeadPantherFindsMore.jpg

Right behind the Panther the lead infantry meet no additional resistance as the move to the edge of the tree line.

375Minute122-121-RightBehind.jpg

The rest of the company move up behind them.

376Minute122-121-RestOfCompany.jpg

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In over watch of the town the Stug that moved forward to protect the flank is successful. First it gets a penetrating hit on one of the Achilles on the opposite ridge.

377Minute122-121-StugFindsAchillies.jpg

Then it turns its gun on the Churchill that escaped the barrage and gets a penetrating hit on it as well.

378Minute122-121-AndThenHitChurchill.jpg

Near the river crossing the infantry continue to advance alongside their armour support. They meet no resistance this turn.

379Minute122-121-MovingForward.jpg

In the orchard the Stug that was hit last turn manages to retreat to safety.

380Minute122-121-Safe.jpg

The Strummel comes under fire from the scout team but scores a direct hit on their position and silences at least part of the scout team.

381Minute122-121-ExchangeFire.jpg

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I order the Strummel to move forward again and put one more rounds on the scout team’s position for insurance purposes.

382Minute121Orders-BackIntoFight.jpg

The advance along the river continues along the tree lines.

383Minute121Orders-AdvanceUnopposed.jpg

At the town entrance the infantry are now ready to make a break for the barns. Now that additional Churchill tanks have been spotted forward the other two Panthers will move up to engage. Meanwhile the Stugs will stay in the tree line and protect the Panthers’ flank in case a threat appears from the town.

384Minute121Orders-EnemyFound.jpg

At the other entrance to the town the Stug will pause for a few seconds to fire the round already chambered and then back out of trouble.

385Minute121Orders-OneMoreShot.jpg

The barrage on the town ended before I wanted it to. I am not really sure what happened there. The plan was for the first barrage to end and allow the infantry to enter the town while the second barrage continued on the right side of the town. But both barrages ended already and the guns still have amo. I am not really sure what happened there but the FO is heading back to his over-watch location to bring the fire back on the far side of town.

386Minute121Orders-BackToOverWatch.jpg

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I just came across this thread. Could become an interesting battle.

Thank you for sharing this with us. But besides all the praise of your work, i hope tactical critics is allowed?

Here are my 2 ct.

The beauty of big mechanized forces on big maps is, that they allow realistic movements around enemy positions, since the forces are big enough for combined warfare. But you are playing like a typical Alliied commander, who have been attracted most of the time by enemy forces like a magnet, seeking every frontal shootout, in trust of endless reinforcements but less like a German commander who must keep his losses at a minimum and therefore needs to hit the enemy in his flank or - even better - get in his back. Your force composition is great for this kind of tactics and this town in the east could offer a great opportunity, not many maps offer.

Why did you split your force already west of the river, instead splitting at the east side? With the main force waltzing as fast as possible in the far south eastward, then turning sharp north and passing the eastern town in the east as fast as possible while leaving the enemy probably expecting you frontally from the West, while you move into his back in the NE.

Afterwards turning west into the rear of your oponent, while the smaller left force plays the bait and has the objective to threaten the bridge in the north and tie enemy forces until it is too late for them when the Panthers stand in their back.

What seems also a problem to me, is that your plan seems very inflexible to such a degree, that it could become even dangerous:

You plan to split your forces before you know anything about the enemy. But even worse: you split in front of the river. If the enemy would already be on the western side and maybe even stronger than expected, then your left group could get stuck and could not support your eastern group!

Your forces could be in danger to become split with very minor enemy forces, if you can't get over the bridge(s) fast enough.

I'm really thrilled to read how you are doing, but i wanted to get my thoughts shared before i dive into the action. I don't know the map, but if you put the StuGs on the western side, and once it becomes day, i could imagine you also could run out of space to maneuver with them appropriately if there are no undulations. In the worst case when it becomes day, he could deny you to pass with the StuGs because he has LOS until the map edge. You could get nailed down on the west.

keepmoving.jpg

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I just read now through all 20 pages. Great work, great pics, great DAR.

Good attack on the Churchill from behind - but with StuHs? :eek: The heat ammo is for emergency situations but not for being used in combined attacks where Panthers are available.

IMO that situation was tactically the best so far, where you tried to grab bigger. And with the correct weaponry it would have worked great and completely different to the rest of the tankbattles. IMO that's how it should be done and not like a bullterrier running with the head through the wall.

My impression is, that you are too hastily although you have enough time. As if the devil was hunting you. :D

You could take much more time to maneuver with your tanks and plan their movements more generously. They have distance weapons!

It takes some routine in CM to cancel an attack, or to delay some hopefully cool action since players tend to keep the tension and excitement high. A running game is like a drug and cancelling or delaying cool action takes the virtue of patience. Don't become a action junkie. They are doomed. :D

And before maneuvering with the tanks for a tankfight, it is good to know where the enemy has his tanks.

Don't use your Panthers lonely on too many locations, use them in close formation and knock out one enemy after the other and begin with the strongest opponents.

And never attack 1:1 if you can't get to a much superior position (hulldown) from a good angle with surprise effect. Try to see 12 o'clock duels more as accidents, or as emergency situations, but you should not plan them, if they can be avoided.

(I just reread it and it maybe sounds a bit too harsh, since you managed to attack some Churchills from several angles)

After 10 ricochets from a StuG against a Churchill, it's maybe a good idea to cancel all future attacks and call in the more adequate Panthers to deal with the problem. And if it takes 10 minutes until they arrive, it takes 10 minutes! That's better than playing lottery with bad odds and losing one StuG after the other. The time until the cats arrive can in most cases be used for recon or repositioning for the later advance/attack anyway.

I'd also suggest to take more time to bring infantry close to the suspected enemy tanks. This allows you small arms fire at the tanks, shortly before your tanks will attack them and gives an additional advantage.

ps: the Sdkfz with the short 75mm is called Stummel (without r).

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I just came across this thread. Could become an interesting battle.

Thank you for sharing this with us. But besides all the praise of your work, i hope tactical critics is allowed?

Here are my 2 ct.

Yes, please do. I am pretty much committed to my attack now but would love to hear your thoughts.

The beauty of big mechanized forces on big maps is, that they allow realistic movements around enemy positions, since the forces are big enough for combined warfare. But you are playing like a typical Alliied commander, who have been attracted most of the time by enemy forces like a magnet, seeking every frontal shootout, in trust of endless reinforcements but less like a German commander who must keep his losses at a minimum and therefore needs to hit the enemy in his flank or - even better - get in his back. Your force composition is great for this kind of tactics and this town in the east could offer a great opportunity, not many maps offer.

I agree. One thing to keep in mind is we already played a battle on this map and sweeping wide to the right and by passing the town was exactly what I did in the first game. That game was a 12 000 point affair and this time I did not want to do the same thing. So the main attack was planned to happen on the other end of town - in the centre. I did have 3 Battery sweep wide to protect that flank. I don't like to do the same thing twice when battling on the same map.

Why did you split your force already west of the river, instead splitting at the east side? With the main force waltzing as fast as possible in the far south eastward, then turning sharp north and passing the eastern town in the east as fast as possible while leaving the enemy probably expecting you frontally from the West, while you move into his back in the NE.

Afterwards turning west into the rear of your oponent, while the smaller left force plays the bait and has the objective to threaten the bridge in the north and tie enemy forces until it is too late for them when the Panthers stand in their back.

What seems also a problem to me, is that your plan seems very inflexible to such a degree, that it could become even dangerous:

You plan to split your forces before you know anything about the enemy. But even worse: you split in front of the river. If the enemy would already be on the western side and maybe even stronger than expected, then your left group could get stuck and could not support your eastern group!

Your forces could be in danger to become split with very minor enemy forces, if you can't get over the bridge(s) fast enough.

Good points.

I'm really thrilled to read how you are doing, but i wanted to get my thoughts shared before i dive into the action. I don't know the map, but if you put the StuGs on the western side, and once it becomes day, i could imagine you also could run out of space to maneuver with them appropriately if there are no undulations. In the worst case when it becomes day, he could deny you to pass with the StuGs because he has LOS until the map edge. You could get nailed down on the west.

Sadly the LOS from one edge to the other is not very good. This is a very hilly area and the AT gun I have setup on the on edge has seen nothing across the valley. The town has ridges on either side of it and those ridges have LOS to each other. My opponent has taken control of one ridge and is keeping me off the other.

Thanks for your thoughts - keep them coming as you read.

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I just read now through all 20 pages. Great work, great pics, great DAR.

Thank you glad you are enjoying it.

Good attack on the Churchill from behind - but with StuHs? :eek: The heat ammo is for emergency situations but not for being used in combined attacks where Panthers are available.

IMO that situation was tactically the best so far, where you tried to grab bigger. And with the correct weaponry it would have worked great and completely different to the rest of the tankbattles. IMO that's how it should be done and not like a bullterrier running with the head through the wall.

Yeah that was a really bad move on my part. A -2 moment. It comes from me not paying proper attention to the forces under my command. When I setup the flanking maneuver I was not paying attention to the fact that they were StuHs and not Stugs. Really bad move on my part and my men paid for it.

My impression is, that you are too hastily although you have enough time. As if the devil was hunting you. :D

You could take much more time to maneuver with your tanks and plan their movements more generously. They have distance weapons!

It takes some routine in CM to cancel an attack, or to delay some hopefully cool action since players tend to keep the tension and excitement high. A running game is like a drug and cancelling or delaying cool action takes the virtue of patience. Don't become a action junkie. They are doomed. :D

And before maneuvering with the tanks for a tankfight, it is good to know where the enemy has his tanks.

Interesting I think I am being very careful and methodical and exercising lots of patience.

Don't use your Panthers lonely on too many locations, use them in close formation and knock out one enemy after the other and begin with the strongest opponents.

That is the plan. I guess the Panthers near the river tank are not really in close formation but I agree I should be bringing them back together. Near the town they are working closely - I know one is a bit a head right now but my last orders will bring them back together.

And never attack 1:1 if you can't get to a much superior position (hulldown) from a good angle with surprise effect. Try to see 12 o'clock duels more as accidents, or as emergency situations, but you should not plan them, if they can be avoided.

(I just reread it and it maybe sounds a bit too harsh, since you managed to attack some Churchill tanks from several angles)

Good philosophy but I am not a fan of flanking hastily without knowing it it is safe. For example my flanking of those two Churchill tanks was done after scouting that flank and then pouncing. The Panther's near the town cannot go wide right now because the town is certainly not safe and the open ground on the left is covered by his Achilles in over watch. So they have no choice but to go head on at the enemy.

After 10 ricochets from a StuG against a Churchill, it's maybe a good idea to cancel all future attacks and call in the more adequate Panthers to deal with the problem. And if it takes 10 minutes until they arrive, it takes 10 minutes! That's better than playing lottery with bad odds and losing one StuG after the other. The time until the cats arrive can in most cases be used for recon or repositioning for the later advance/attack anyway.

Yes those Stugs are officially banned from going head to head with Churchill tanks. Except when they have to protect softer targets.

I'd also suggest to take more time to bring infantry close to the suspected enemy tanks. This allows you small arms fire at the tanks, shortly before your tanks will attack them and gives an additional advantage.

That is the plan

ps: the Sdkfz with the short 75mm is called Stummel (without r).

Yeah and considering the name is right there on screen you would think I would get that one right. ;)

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I agree. One thing to keep in mind is we already played a battle on this map and sweeping wide to the right and by passing the town was exactly what I did in the first game. That game was a 12 000 point affair and this time I did not want to do the same thing. So the main attack was planned to happen on the other end of town - in the centre. I did have 3 Battery sweep wide to protect that flank. I don't like to do the same thing twice when battling on the same map.

Oh, didn't know that. Doing it for a second time would have surprised him probably even more. :P

Thanks for your thoughts - keep them coming as you read.

Will do my best to confuse you. ;)

If it's not too much work, could you give us again an overview of the current situation and where the remaining Panthers, Stugs, PAKs and platoons are now and where the enemy is?

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