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Axis Side - 20 000 point Quick Battle DAR


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Not much is happening at the bridge head. The infantry and their supporting Stugs lead the way to expand the bridge head towards the rail crossing.

213Minute138-137-ExpandingBridgeHead.jpg

Over near the orchard one of the Stugs of 1 Battery exchanges fire with a Churchill tank. They fire almost simultaneously and both connect. Neither is destroyed but I know how this mach-up ends. Not well for me.

214Minute138-137-ExchangeFire.jpg

Also this turn a 75mm Half track gets nailed. 5 Company is going to have to do a better job of finding cover in the orchard.

215Minute138-137-Lost75HT.jpg

Over on the right flank one of the Stugs is assaulted by a British crew member using nothing but his sten gun. You can see the ricochets flying. If you look closely in the bottom right corner you can see the crewman.

216Minute138-137-CrazyCrew.jpg

Another of 3 Battery is hit by an Achilles but shrugs it off. The return fire is a nice looking hit. Hopefully after surviving the hammer hit the Stug can crack the egg – and this buddy near by too. That would be nice.

217Minute138-137-SmashTheEgg.jpg

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3 Battery continues to work towards flanking those newly found Churchill tanks.

219Minute137Orders-RightFlank.jpg

The advance from the bridge head proceeds in two prongs. One along the river and one a bit wider on the right. I want to see if I can fix his forces with the river side assault and then flank and destroy them on the right.

220Minute137Orders-BridgeHead.jpg

Time to back off further into the Orchard to keep 5 Company and its supporting vehicles intact.

221Minute137Orders-LeftFlank.jpg

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Unbelievable! This Stug put a hole in an Achilles and before they could reload to finish the job this happened.

222Minute137-136-Hammered.jpg

That was one hard boiled egg. Needless to say the Stug brewed up and all the crew were lost.

In the woods 1 Company's lead platoon runs into a Scout team. After a brief fire fight and one casualty they are dispatched. He must have been wondering what my guys were up to.

223Minute137-136-EncounterInTheWoods.jpg

Over with 5 Company a Churchill rattled this crew so much they bailed and ran off.

224Minute137-136-Unhorsed.jpg

And the Stu42 on the right side of the Orchard could not with draw fast enough and is hit again.

225Minute137-136-Taking.jpg

Mean while the bridge head assault team is full of optimism and heading off looking for a fight. I hope I can lead them to some victories instead of more defeats.

226Minute137-136-MovingOut.jpg

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In the woods near the town 1 Company and 2 Company move up. Their supporting vehicles are still catching up and the artillery strike on the town has not been called yet.

227Minute136Orders-WoodsAdvance.jpg

3 Battery continue their flanking manoeuvre despite their latest loss.

228Minute136Orders-RigthFlank.jpg

The bridge assault team's two pronged manoeuvre continues. Near the top of the picture you can see the enemy tank they are trying to distract on the left and flank on the right.

229Minute136Orders-TwoProngedAdvance.jpg

Also, not pictured, 1 Platoon's HQ from 5 Company has called in a 120mm mortar strike on the group of Churchill and Stuart tanks have been harassing them.

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Overall a pretty quiet turn, as I predict the next few turns will be. Dungeon Tiger is playing a wait for me to come to him game. And he is correct that is just what I have to do. He is sitting on two of the three objectives. But I will attack when I am ready. Experience in this game shows that those Churchill tanks are nothing to mess with so my attack on the down will proceed after I shell it with 150mm, setting all that up will take some time. Also, 2 Battery took such a beating earlier they are not yet in position with 1 and 2 Companies in the woods. The infantry need armor support before they move out of the woods. So in sort there will be some quiet turns over the next while.

In the meantime 3 Company continues to expand its bridgehead in two prongs.

230Minute136-135-Flanking.jpg

In the Orchard 5 Company and its supporting elements are also biding their time but everyone is giving the burning AFVs a wide birth. The 75mm half-track offered some drama this turn – cooking off.

231Minute136-135-CookingOff.jpg

Clearly the enemy is wondering how close my men are to the town in the woods because they are probing with armoured cars now. There is an exchange of fire and the armoured car backed off.

232Minute136-135-ACInWoods.jpg

Osterhaus and his FO team have arrived in the secure area behind 3 Battery’s lines.

233Minute136-135-FOArrives.jpg

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The bridge head elements continue to advance on two prongs. I am still hoping to flank the spotted Churchill tank.

234Minute135Orders-BridgeHead.jpg

The other attempt to flank Churchill tanks is proceeding as well.

235Minute135Orders-FlankingRight.jpg

In the woods 1 and 2 Company move forward slightly and their AFV support are beginning to advance. Only a couple of the AFVs assigned to assault the town are in position. One forward Stug is given orders to move up and hunt for that Armoured Car.

236Minute135Orders-AdvanceInWoods.jpg

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This is another fairly quiet turn. The lead Stug from 1 Battery spots some scouts in a field up ahead and opens up.

237Minute135-134-EngagingMoreScouts.jpg

Osterhaus and the FO team are crawling the final few meters into position just over the crest of the hill.

238Minute135-134-FOTeamArrives.jpg

In the woods the lead elements of 1 Company spots something and start shooting. I never see anything but a contact icon but they clearly have a target to shoot at.

239Minute135-134-FireingOnMovement.jpg

Elements of 3 Battery move forward attempting to flank those Churchill tanks.

240Minute135-134-FlankingStugs.jpg

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Four Stugs from 3 Battery now have orders that will position themselves to pounce on the Churchill tanks they have been hunting.

241Minute134Orders-FlankingRight.jpg

Osterhaus sets up two artillery strikes on the town. The first strike (on the left) closest to the woods will arrive in approximately eight minutes. The second (on the right) is delayed for four more minutes and will start in 12 minutes. The plan goes like this: Once the first barrage is coming to an end, 1 Company and its Stugs and Panthers will break the cover of the woods and hop tree line to treeline towards the town. Hopefully the barrage will have cleared out some of the opposition. My hope is that as the attack proceeds more forces will move into the town and be right under the second barrage. I already know there are Achilles under the second barrage’s target area.

242Minute134Orders-ArtilleryOnTown.jpg

1 and 2 Company are both adjusting their positions and the Stugs and Panthers have path ways through the forest.

243Minute134Orders-AlmostInPosition.jpg

At the bridge head 3 Company and supporting elements move in their two pronged approach. Sadly the Churchill they were trying to flank was spooked and withdrew. On the other hand that means the left hand prong can make progress along the river.

244Minute134Orders-AdvanceAtBridge.jpg

I mentioned earlier that 1 Platoon HQ from 5 Company has called a 120mm mortar strike on one of the spotted Churchill tanks that have been harassing them.

245Minute134Orders-Orchard.jpg

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More quiet on all fronts. The only excitement is I continue to run into scouts. And I continue to dispatch them most of the time. Here the Panther shell missed but the nearby infantry took care of the job.

246Minute134-133-MoreScouts.jpg

The platoon of infantry catch up to the Panthers in the field. I am not sure what to do with here since the Churchill tank they were flanking has withdrawn. But going further to the right will leave them exposed to the Achilles on the ridge near the town.

247Minute134-133-CrossingTheField.jpg

3 Battery moves into position to pounce on the Churchill tanks.

248Minute134-133-AlmostReadyOnTheFlank.jpg

The previously unidentified contact my men were shooting at is spotted (and then lost in the woods again later). It is another scout team.

249Minute134-133-FoundMoreScouts.jpg

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First things first – time to hunt and eliminate those scouts. I have split off an assault team who will hunt along the tree line. At the same time a Stug will move up in case there is more trouble than my infantry can handle.

250Minute133Orders-HuntingScouts.jpg

Three more Stugs need to get into position.

251Minute133Orders-SettingUpTheAttack.jpg

One of 5 Company’s mortar teams has been dispatched to a location that has eyes on a Churchill tank. With some luck they too will be able to spot the enemy and send some HE his way.

252Minute133Orders-MortarForDirectFire.jpg

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One of 5 Company’s mortar teams sets up but does not see the Churchill.

253Minute133-132-MortarCannotSee.jpg

In the woods the lead Stug spots and dispatches a loan scout.

254Minute133-132-NailedTheScout.jpg

On the right flank elements of 3 Battery are ready to pounce on the Churchill tanks they are trying to flank.

255Minute133-132-InPosition.jpg

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A team from 1 Company are ordered to sweep the woods where the scout team were spotted to clear out any other enemy scouts.

256Minute132Orders-ClearArea.jpg

Slight change of plans: It looks like the flanking members of 3 Battery can get behind the Churchill tanks. There is no one near their current position. Two Stu42s are sent to the rear of the Churchill tanks and the Stugs get ready behind the crest of the hill.

257Minute132Orders-ChangePlans.jpg

5 Company’s mortar team shift over to see if they can get eyes on the Churchill.

258Minute132Orders-MortarTryAgain.jpg

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Two Panthers, pictured here, heading towards the woods to bolster 1 and 2 Company’s strength, for an eventual assault on the town. The artillery is 5 minutes out still which should be enough time for them to arrive.

259Minute132-131-PanthersInWoods.jpg

Hunting forward to check for scouts, my teams found no additional enemy scouts in their neck of the woods.

260Minute132-131-HuntingScouts.jpg

Minute 1:31 Orders:

The Stu42s are almost in position. Next turn I will likely order that they pounce.

261Minute132-131-SneakingUpBehind.jpg

5 Company’s mortar team still cannot see that Churchill. Try repositioning one more time.

262Minute131Orders-MortarRepositionAgain.jpg

Advancing through the field.

263Minute131Orders-AdvancingArcossField.jpg

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One more quiet turn; things will heat up again next turn. There is some excitement this turn.

One of my Panthers advancing from the bridge head spots an Achilles and puts a hole in it. They see some crew get hit but the AFV is still operating as it backs behind the railway track and disappears.

264Minute131-130-HitAchilles.jpg

Meanwhile on the other side of the map The Churchill tanks 3 Battery have been working to flank spots my scouts and takes a pot shot. The Scouts are saved by a tree.

265Minute131-130-SavedByTree.jpg

Shortly after that the Shreck team trailing the scouts takes a shot. This time it is the Churchill that is saved by the tree.

266Minute131-130-SavedByTree.jpg

This is a good thing because those Churchill tanks are no paying attention to the wrong thing. While they are focusing on my infantry they are about to be surprised by two Stugs and two Stu42s from 3 Battery. Next turn is going to be interesting.

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5 Company’s 1 Platoon HQ tries again to call in some 81mm mortar fire on top of a Churchill tank. They tried to call off board 81mm but it was out of range. I have never seen that before but I guess if you are playing on such a large map it can happen. Anyway calling it from one of 5 Company’s own mortars is in range.

267Minute130Orders-ArtilleryTryAgain.jpg

One prong from the bridge head is set to advance to the nearby tree line.

268Minute130Orders-HeadForTreeLine.jpg

Here is the Churchill trap. On the left you can see the infantry moving up in the tree line. I have them being fairly aggressive but staying in the trees. With any luck the Churchill tanks will focus on them. While the two Stu42s on the right will break the tree line behind the Churchill tanks and then 10s later the two Stugs will crest the hill and come at them from the side. I really hope this goes well.

269Minute130Orders-Trap.jpg

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The trap has been sprung. I am not a happy commander. The two Churchill tanks took multiple hits – none penetrating. None penetrating – again! The ambush looked flawless. The Stu42s came out of the woods and hit both Churchill tanks from behind.

270Minute130-129-Suprise.jpg

The first one hit moved away – towards my Shrek team but the other one stood its ground and took a pounding while it dispatched one of the Stugs.

271Minute130-129-StugHit.jpg

The Churchill tank the moved forward came very close to my scout team but the Shrek team behind them did not get a shot.

272Minute130-129-ChurchillClose.jpg

Meanwhile over by the bridge more hell was unleashed on my platoon and Panthers moving to the tree line. The Panther took two penetrating hits with little damage and no casualties. Good thing some of my AFVs can take a pounding. The Panthers did manage to take out a couple of more armoured cars.

273Minute130-129-PantherHit.jpg

The platoon took quite a few casualties but two squads almost made it to the tree line before the minute ran out.

274Minute130-129-AdvancingUnderFire.jpg

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At the bridge head the platoon will finish their advance to the treeline while the other prong of the advance will move to the other edge of the field.

275Minute129Orders-BridgeAdvance.jpg

Since that mortar team still cannot see anything useful – reposition them again.

276Minute129Orders-MortarRepo.jpg

Tighten the noose on those two Churchill tanks. The nearby Stugs are going to move to a hull down position behind a rise in the field while the Shrek team moves through the trees.

277Minute129Orders-CloseIn.jpg

At the same time the remaining Stug will move forward to avoid falling prey to the Achilles on the other side of the valley plus they will hug the treeline and try to get some protection.

278Minute129Orders-CloseIn.jpg

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At this point I am very concerned. I ambushed those Churchills almost perfectly and dealt them 6 or 7 hits. Not a scratch. Sure, I killed a tank commander who did not button up fast enough but I cannot win this game killing one crew man at a time.

I do not get it what do I have to do to put down Churchill tanks!

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At this point I am very concerned. I ambushed those Churchills almost perfectly and dealt them 6 or 7 hits. Not a scratch. Sure, I killed a tank commander who did not button up fast enough but I cannot win this game killing one crew man at a time.

I do not get it what do I have to do to put down Churchill tanks!

The reason your Stugs could not knock out the Churchills is because the Stug 42 has no AP rounds, only a couple of HEAT, then the rest is HE, it's the Stug IIIG that has the AP.

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Yeah, I'd think that.d be the reason. HEAT rounds get used up very quickly. I used to love taking Priests with me as Allies but quickly found that the 105 HEAT rounds got used up very quickly and then your just pinging big HE rounds on the sides of German armor. Doesnt seem to bother them much even in Pz IVs.

Also keep in mind churchills are probably one of the best armored tanks the brits have. If not the best armored. I used to hear a lot of great things about the Cromwell, and I admit I havent played them that much, but when I did take them out with me I was shocked at how quickly they'd get KO'd. No, the Churchills are the beasts. I like the 95mm variant a lot too. The 57mm 6lber has great AT ability too.

you know reading back through this thread I saw mention of, and remembered it mentioned during release the FI handles graphics better and gets better frames. However my experience has actually been the opposite. I dont know why, obviously I know it's true for everyone else, but for example even playing a modest sized scenario against Slysniper (gateway to palermo) halfway to 3/4s of the way through it was completely unplayable. Im talking one frame a minute if that. Very strange. Other scenarios are fine, but take noticeable longer to load. CMBN meanwhile, with similar or larger scenarios loads a lot quicker, and runs smoothly. Also looks better too, I dont get the graphical shimmering effect. =(

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The reason your Stugs could not knock out the Churchills is because the Stug 42 has no AP rounds, only a couple of HEAT, then the rest is HE, it's the Stug IIIG that has the AP.

Oh I know. They each had two HEAT rounds. All four used up to no effect - except a TC kill. I was hoping for a HEAT kill since the Stugs 75mm guns have had so much trouble with the Churchill tanks. That's why I sent the 42s around to hit them from the rear.

My Stugs have been pounding Churchills and not getting KOs. If you look back in the thread you will see an earlier encounter where a Churchill survived 22 hits from Stugs before finally being destroyed by the 23rd.

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Also keep in mind churchills are probably one of the best armored tanks the brits have. If not the best armored. I used to hear a lot of great things about the Cromwell, and I admit I havent played them that much, but when I did take them out with me I was shocked at how quickly they'd get KO'd. No, the Churchills are the beasts. I like the 95mm variant a lot too. The 57mm 6lber has great AT ability too.

Yeah I have a lot of respect for Churchill tanks and even more now. I have to admit I a feeling like I brought a knife to a gun fight though.

Regarding Cromwells: I agree they die easily. But they are amazingly fast. I have a few in a QB I am fighting now. They raced a head of my Shermans and took up an excellent position that surprised my opponent. They did a lot of damage by being in the right place fast. That is there advantage.

you know reading back through this thread I saw mention of, and remembered it mentioned during release the FI handles graphics better and gets better frames. However my experience has actually been the opposite. I dont know why, obviously I know it's true for everyone else, but for example even playing a modest sized scenario against Slysniper (gateway to palermo) halfway to 3/4s of the way through it was completely unplayable. Im talking one frame a minute if that. Very strange. Other scenarios are fine, but take noticeable longer to load. CMBN meanwhile, with similar or larger scenarios loads a lot quicker, and runs smoothly. Also looks better too, I dont get the graphical shimmering effect. =(

Interesting I am starting the gateway right now - I hope I fair better. In this game I sometimes get down in the 8-10 frames per second range when there are a lot of ground and lots of vehicles in view. The way I usually watch the frame rate usually stays in the 14-20 range which is reasonably playable.

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Gateway was a fantastic scenario to play. You wont be disappointed. I mean really, the variety of units, tactical options, and surprises it was a great battle. It was just really unfortunate, by the end it was unplayable to me I wouldnt even watch the movie, I just hit go. =( insanely choppy.

So wait. You shot HEAT to the churchills rear to no effect? Thats.. bizarre. I thought you had used your HEAT up and were pinging them with HE. HEAT to the rear should have destroyed them... Very weird. Though the Churchills are fantastic at taking damage. Plus even if they're not KO'd they may be a mess inside - damaged/destroyed sub systems etc etc. You should be commended for taking a realistic force mix. A lot of people hesitate to use Stugs unless they're in a time period they know the Stugs will rock in, or if they're in a defensive position and are gonna keyhole you to death. It's nice to see some other armor used that isnt uber.

Yes, Cromwells are super fast. I think they're the fastest tank in the game. Still never got over how quickly I lost them in that QB. Tainted my view of them...

If the Commonwealth mod taught me anything it was that I had greatly underappreciated my Sherman tank. For one, the Firefly is probably hands down the best Allied tank availible in the Mod. Churchills come close but I think all around the firefly is the best. If it had a .50 cal for the TC i'd be in heaven. Thats my major beef with CW armor, the loss of the 50 cal is noticeable after using American armor for awhile. the 50 is fantastic for all manner of uses.

I also often hear people mention the high velocity 75s poor HE performance, whether in talking about the Panther's gun or the Sherman Firefly. At least in my wargaming experience I've never noticed that at all. Obviously an 88 or 105 does the job better, but all the high velocity 75s Ive seen used against me or used myself butchered infantry just fine. And forget about tanks. The only thing more impressive than that Panther gun is the long 88 on Jagdpanthers and KTs. That thing is downright scary.

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Gateway was a fantastic scenario to play. You wont be disappointed. I mean really, the variety of units, tactical options, and surprises it was a great battle. It was just really unfortunate, by the end it was unplayable to me I wouldnt even watch the movie, I just hit go. =( insanely choppy.

Good - hopefully I will not run into frame rate issues but it is not as big as this game I am playing now so hopefully I'll be OK.

So wait. You shot HEAT to the churchills rear to no effect? Thats.. bizarre. I thought you had used your HEAT up and were pinging them with HE. HEAT to the rear should have destroyed them... Very weird. Though the Churchills are fantastic at taking damage. Plus even if they're not KO'd they may be a mess inside - damaged/destroyed sub systems etc etc. You should be commended for taking a realistic force mix. A lot of people hesitate to use Stugs unless they're in a time period they know the Stugs will rock in, or if they're in a defensive position and are gonna keyhole you to death. It's nice to see some other armor used that isnt uber.

Yeah I just had coffee with Dungeon Tiger - man we talk to much sometimes - but it is fun to talk about the game. And you are right the tanks have taken crew casualties. As for HE vs HEAT. I think one of the Stu42s had two rounds but the other might have been out. Anyway the one that did have HEAT did connect with one of them (first shot was high) and it did *not* get a penetration. According to DT it was the shrek round that caused the most damage. He let slip that an Achilles had eyes on my ambush force - not good for me.

One of the best parts of this game is how little you know about the shape and make up of the other guys forces. Don't tell your opponent stuff after all - loose lips sink ships.

I really like Stugs, whenever I face them they shrug off so many rounds and they have such a low profile that they are hard to hit sometimes. They have served me well many times too. And I am not really having a problem with their survivability in this game it is there inability to kill Churchills that is causing me concern.

Yes, Cromwells are super fast. I think they're the fastest tank in the game. Still never got over how quickly I lost them in that QB. Tainted my view of them...

If the Commonwealth mod taught me anything it was that I had greatly underappreciated my Sherman tank. For one, the Firefly is probably hands down the best Allied tank availible in the Mod. Churchills come close but I think all around the firefly is the best. If it had a .50 cal for the TC i'd be in heaven. Thats my major beef with CW armor, the loss of the 50 cal is noticeable after using American armor for awhile. the 50 is fantastic for all manner of uses.

I also often hear people mention the high velocity 75s poor HE performance, whether in talking about the Panther's gun or the Sherman Firefly. At least in my wargaming experience I've never noticed that at all. Obviously an 88 or 105 does the job better, but all the high velocity 75s Ive seen used against me or used myself butchered infantry just fine. And forget about tanks. The only thing more impressive than that Panther gun is the long 88 on Jagdpanthers and KTs. That thing is downright scary.

I agree regarding the Firefly and the Panther's 75 HE and those 88s *are* damn scary. I have occasionally seen Shermans take a one or two hits form 75s but I have never seen one survive a hit from an 88.

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