Infantry AT weapons

[Scrummage]

What kind of German infantry AT weapons does CM:FI feature? Operation Husky does seem a bit early for the Germans to be equipped with the "usual" amount of fausts and schrecks. Will we see some form of anti tank rifles?

[womble]

According to Wikipedia, there'll need to be an interesting new model for any 'Shrecken in Sicily, with a poncho and gas mask, since the things didn't have blast shields til October. And I'm not even sure the Faust was in service til the very end, at best, of the Sicilian campaign.

[mjkerner]

Oh, I'd love anti-tank rifles. Do the Italians get them, at least?

[MikeyD]

Only anti tank rifle is the Solothurn gun, and that's only mounted on the AS-42 truck and not man-portible (Solothurn weighs about as much as a .50 cal Browning). But its mighty pretty nonetheless.

[ChrisND]

No Panzerschrecks or Panzerfausts. Too early for them to be available in combat, I believe that the earliest versions of them at that time were only undergoing limited trials still.

Instead the Germans get a lot more rifle grenade launchers, one per squad.

[MikeyD]

One 'not an anti-tank weapon' that causes armor much grief is the little italian Brixia 45mm mortar. Surprisingly accurate and with a murderous rate of fire. Your halftracks especially are vulnerable to plunging attack. Tanks are kept buttoned and after the 7th or 8th roof hit tend to back away.

[A Canadian Cat]

Excellent question @Scrummage

No Panzerschrecks or Panzerfausts. Too early for them to be available in combat,

Wow, I had not thought of that at all. That will change the battle field dynamics quite a bit.

[Scrummage]

No Panzerschrecks or Panzerfausts. Too early for them to be available in combat, I believe that the earliest versions of them at that time were only undergoing limited trials still.

Instead the Germans get a lot more rifle grenade launchers, one per squad.

Only rifle grenades, no panzerwurfminen or Hafthohlladung?

[ChrisND]

Only rifle grenades, no panzerwurfminen or Hafthohlladung?

No mines of that sort. The Germans can buy tank hunter teams armed with rifle grenades and demo charges for close defense though.

[Fizou]

I miss the panzerwurfminen and grenade bundles. Are they simulated by ordinary grenades when assaulting tanks?

[MikeyD]

armed with rifle grenades and demo charges for close defense though.

'Demo charges' seems to be a somewhat generic term in the game. Nowhere in the CMBN manual does it state that it is a 1 pound block of TNT, or dynamite sticks, Westfalite, nitrostarch, Composition B, Tetryol M2, Amatol or British P.E. no2. No mention either of the means of detonation - a lit fuse? So if you want it could represent any of those or perhaps even a grenade bundle!

[womble]

IIRC, units in CMx1 other than Tank Hunter teams had things like thrown mines and grenade bundles, at least some times, so it's fair, I think, to say that they could either be subsumed into grenade use while attacking AFVs, or the magical morphin' moonbeams the Engineers use to demo hedges/walls/wire/tanks (but not hedgehogs )could represent them too.

[MG TOW]

I have seen pics of falschirm squads and Heer with Panzerbüchse 39 Granatbüchse Modell in italy. But this was strictly in a grenade launcher role. The numbers were rare enough that likely one was shared between a whole company. At 40,000 manufactured it is rare enough that some regiments didn't even have or want access to these. But they were in use through 1944. Italy acquired 800 Polish AT Rifles, but at such a small number, and its lack balistic punch it isn't worth going down that road IMO.

[John Kettler]

The Geballte Ladung http://www.gd-uk.org/images/research_pages/pznkacker_images/bunchedgrenade_a.jpg was in the German inventory from the beginning of the War. The Panzerschreck didn't appear in combat until the breakout at Anzio--where it did in one flail tank after another. Luftwaffe ground troops got the Panzerwurfmine in May 1943. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerwurfmine

Haven't the faintest why, given their widespread use in the East, the Germans would NOT have Teller mines as go to antitank weapons in Sicily, and the first magnetic antitank mines were debuted in Russia in May of 1942, per the info presented by "Kurt Steiner" here. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=40063

Regards,

John Kettler

[Shorker]

I'm doing a lot of CMFI PBEM matches at the moment while playing a long campaign as the Germans (www. thefewgoodmen.com --> http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/the-rico-shorker-war.18952/ )

and I must say that the AT weapons for the German infantry are insufficient.

Satchel charges can only be thrown at tanks by lucky occasion (happened only 1x in 5 defences

and the AT team died afterwards) and the rifle grenades have no effect - absolutely no effect to British Shermans (opponent always plays Brits).

So I get regularly steam rolled by his Shermans and even Stuarts while my German infantry has NOTHING against these tanks.

There should be the possibility of just buying an "untypical/ or rare" AT rifle team that costs a lot of rarity points.

This would help against the Stuarts and maybe destroy the optics, machine guns, chains etc. of the Shermans.

And after I have read the other comments, I also plead for implementing the "Panzerwurfmine" into CMFI for to add some more balance to the game.

[Skwabie]

i don't understand... if i set date to may 1944, some german squads do carry fausts?

the HTs don't have them in stock but 1~3 of the squads in the platoon have pzf 30/30k automatically.

[womble]

...I must say that the AT weapons for the German infantry are insufficient.

That's just the way it is. It's why Shreck and Faust were developed and deployed.

So I get regularly steam rolled by his Shermans and even Stuarts while my German infantry has NOTHING against these tanks.

Yes, they do. They have ATG. They have close assault.

There should be the possibility of just buying an "untypical/ or rare" AT rifle team that costs a lot of rarity points.

Which would still do nothing whatsoever to Shermans, and be mostly ineffective against Stuarts. And it would be ahistorical. ATRs had been withdrawn from service by then.

And after I have read the other comments, I also plead for implementing the "Panzerwurfmine" into CMFI for to add some more balance to the game.

That's what close assault abstracts out.

Sure, Sicily is pretty poor terrain for sneaking up to grenade range on tanks, but as you're defending you should be able to get some mileage out of ATGs; the terrain is open enough to allow long shots, and hilly enough to generate some good keyholes.

[Shorker]

i don't understand... if i set date to may 1944, some german squads do carry fausts?

the HTs don't have them in stock but 1~3 of the squads in the platoon have pzf 30/30k automatically.

LOL! That's the solution!

@Skwabie: Thanks a lot for your response!

Somehow I was not aware that 1944 technology is also available in CMFI already.

[Gamer58]

I'm doing a lot of CMFI PBEM matches at the moment while playing a long campaign as the Germans (www. thefewgoodmen.com --> http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/the-rico-shorker-war.18952/ )

and I must say that the AT weapons for the German infantry are insufficient.

Satchel charges can only be thrown at tanks by lucky occasion (happened only 1x in 5 defences

and the AT team died afterwards) and the rifle grenades have no effect - absolutely no effect to British Shermans (opponent always plays Brits).

So I get regularly steam rolled by his Shermans and even Stuarts while my German infantry has NOTHING against these tanks.

There should be the possibility of just buying an "untypical/ or rare" AT rifle team that costs a lot of rarity points.

This would help against the Stuarts and maybe destroy the optics, machine guns, chains etc. of the Shermans.

And after I have read the other comments, I also plead for implementing the "Panzerwurfmine" into CMFI for to add some more balance to the game.

Agree. Game needs thrown mines, tellers, nade bundles, magnetic mine etc. Only real AT weapons are the pioneer satchels and normal nades, which is disappointing.

[A Canadian Cat]

Agree. Game needs thrown mines, tellers, nade bundles, magnetic mine etc. Only real AT weapons are the pioneer satchels and normal nades, which is disappointing.

Our normal grenades, as used attacking tanks, are an abstraction for those other things you mention. So when you see your infantry up close and personal with a tank they *are* using thrown mines, tellers grenade bundles or magnetic mines we just get to see the grenade animation.