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A quick way is to hold down the SHIFT key then click on Target Arc NOT Target Light ... Target Arc after holding down on shift key.

Then move the mouse when the yellow circle pops up .. move the mouse to give it the range you want.

They will watch 360 but be careful cause I have had a group like this that is getting shot at and they do not return fire cause I had a small arc set using Shift + Target Arc.

This may be a quicker and easier way to accomplish what you are trying do rather than drawing the elaborate triangle each time.

This is covered at page 84 in the manual First Paragraph under the heading "Target Arc" mentions using the Shift key.

Cheers

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Not wasting time, a "hold fire" command is something that very much needs to be added. Yes, you can work around it by using small covered arcs, but thats very unintuitive and not quite the same thing.

It pretty much is the same thing. What's the difference? A circular 1m CA says "do not fire at anything more than a metre away." Almost everything will be more than a metre away, so your unit will hold their fire.

Apart from when they think there's an existential threat they simply cannot ignore. And I think you'd want a Hold Fire command to have that feature, more often than not. Certainly, as the developer, I'd be happier to have people moaning about troops ordered not to fire opening up prematurely than about troops not reacting to obvious threats (like a squad appearing to their rear at short range.

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People report on these forums, however, that the small circular arc (or any short range arc) used for the purposes of creating an ambush, does not appear to work as enemy have reportedly walked right up to them and killed em while your guys are still holding fire.

If this is accurate, it is a puzzle, since the arc/ambush method worked very well in CM1.

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People report on these forums, however, that the small circular arc (or any short range arc) used for the purposes of creating an ambush, does not appear to work as enemy have reportedly walked right up to them and killed em while your guys are still holding fire.

If this is accurate, it is a puzzle, since the arc/ambush method worked very well in CM1.

Not that I've tested it out, but that only seems to happen if it is combined with a HIDE command.

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People report on these forums, however, that the small circular arc (or any short range arc) used for the purposes of creating an ambush, does not appear to work as enemy have reportedly walked right up to them and killed em while your guys are still holding fire.

If this is accurate, it is a puzzle, since the arc/ambush method worked very well in CM1.

I just a minute ago (game time) sprang a very successful ambush when some ACs scampered, Greyhound-like into an overlapping set of covered arcs. Sure, the CAs were set to approximate the visual crest, but the first volleys came in just about as soon as the vehicles crossed that yellow line.

As Ser Kerner says, it's people misusing Hide that get CAs a bad name :)

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I ordered a MkIV, as a test, to point its turret in covered arc broadside and off-board and the tank was facing an on-coming Sherman that was firing at it. This travelled from over nearly two kilometres to roughly 400 metres when it finally nailed the MkIV

At no time did the turret turn to fire. I had assumed at some stage the driver or commander may have noticed/ mentioned they were under fire and decide to fight back. I was told that this ignore imminent threat was because the high crew quality meant it would always follow orders. I believe it was under version 1.01. So the answer might be don't get too "good" troops.

I have not tested the behaviour under Version 1.10.

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Using the Shift key gives a circle so I think it makes them look 360 so perhaps a slower response time when enemy comes into the arc whereas in theory if the units are all facing one direction they may do better responding to units in the arc.

"Spotting is computed for each unit individually, and is not only based on actual

lines of sight, but includes many other factors such as: what the spotter and

target are doing (facing does matter!), the equipment they have available

(scopes, binoculars etc.), skill levels, visibility based on climatic effects and

the time of day, even sounds (units can “hear” nearby enemies!) and so forth." page 73 (Red added for emphasis.)

Therefore perhaps the reason why the enemy could walk up on dudes doing a circular arc is maybe because the only unit that will see them is maybe 1 unit depending on how many you have doing the arc and then ya go skill levels, blah blah blah all that other stuff.

Oh Like my squad can shoot at an enemy but then if I don't move them but press split squads then I have 3 groups and most of the time only one of those groups can now still engage the enemy even though none of them moved.

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Using the Shift key gives a circle so I think it makes them look 360...

No, no it doesn't. Infantry teams maintain 360 awareness anyway, but their spotting is best in the direction the eyes are pointing. Give a team a 360 arc and watch them not go into "all round defense". They remain pointing the way they were oriented when you gave them the arc and spot exactly as if you've given them a Face order in that direction, or a narrow covered arc with its centre point in the direction they're already looking.

So...

...slower response time...

... is a shibboleth.

...(facing does matter!)...

Indeed, and I mention this only to show I see what you're saying, rather than browbeat: circular CAs don't change the facing of the troops.

Oh Like my squad can shoot at an enemy but then if I don't move them but press split squads then I have 3 groups and most of the time only one of those groups can now still engage the enemy even though none of them moved.

If you take a squad in that position and watch what it does, you will see that none of the troops in the 2 teams, which, when split cannot address the target were shooting at that target before you split it. The manual means what it says when it says individual LOS is counted. If even one man of an element can engage a target, that whole element is "shown" (by higlighted icon) as being able to; how else could it be? If subunits once split cannot, they won't be show as being able to. Again: how could it be otherwise?

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Lots of times for realism I play with my reading glasses off to simulate fog of war so I have not been noticing all this stuff thanks for the info.

rotflmao!!! Wait I was supposed to be wearing my glasses... holy crap no wonder I thought there was a vehicle bug, those are bulidings!

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The comments at the top of this page show that I was not the only one to think that a Covered Arc influenced where a unit looks/spots.

Artofwar has now also learned that it only applies to engagement distance.

If his troops had seen the enemy coming up behind them, they would only have engaged within the covered arc.

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The comments at the top of this page show that I was not the only one to think that a Covered Arc influenced where a unit looks/spots.

An easy misunderstanding, I think, since wedge-shaped CAs do influence the direction of where they look. It's just the circular ones that don't.

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mj: Yes, in CM1, you could HIDE and have a covered arc and it would make a lovely ambush. For some reason in CM2, if they are hiding, they don't ambush (is what I am reading on these forums).

"For some reason". Yes. The reason being that the default behaviour for all troops is always to hide, as best they can while maintaining situational awareness, from observers in the direction they are facing. If you tell them to Hide, they are being told to prioritise keeping their heads down, face-in-the-dirt down, over everything else, including keeping an eye out. So they "Hide", and are much less often seen "Spotting". The status text in the bottom left corner isn't just for pretties. If a unit (an individual pTruppe) isn't "Spotting" it's unlikely they'll see anything. The status text for an individual with "Hide" instructions will say "Hiding" 90% (a figure of speech; I don't know the exact proportions) of the time, whereas the status text for an individual in a static unit will say "Spotting" 90% of the time. This also explains why units with movement orders are less likely to see their stationary enemies than vice-versa, and why suppressed units (spending their life "Cowering") also don't spot as well.

There is absolutely no need to end every movement order with a "Hide", and an ambush is better if you don't give the ambushers "Hide" orders, just covered arcs. Hide is for keeping your troops' heads down whatever happens. It's good for helping them ride out bombardment, and it will help them not get spotted if they're in good concealment, since they do present a smaller, lower sillhouette, but you will have to unhide them yourself, since they won't know when to, and that makes using Hide very tricky in an ambush situation.

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I understand that womble.

You don't seem to be showing any evidence of that.

I think we're all just saying that it's better to ambush from a hiding position...

Which is what all stationary infantry adopt in Cmx2, as in real life combat.

And CM1 did that well, and CM2, well...

Does it perfectly well, because the pTruppen are modeled to do what liveTruppen do: seek the best cover and concealment available. They are hidden, and ambushes work just fine (so long as you set your cover arcs where the enemy actually go...)

The problem is that CMx1 players assume that Hide behaviour in the new game is identical to the old game, and it's not sufficiently clear, or they are not prepared to accept that this is not the case. If you think of hiding troops as going so far as to shut themselves in cupboards they can't see out of in order to hide, then you'll be getting the right picture of their behaviour.

To have them more concealed without reducing their spotting would be silly and lead to redundancy. Everyone would just tack a Hide onto the end of every movement and Hide would become default, at which point you might as well hard code it and use the command slot for something else. Which, effectively, is what has been done. "Hide" now means "Don't show anything, not even an eyeball, to the enemy, whereas in x1 it meant "get into cover instead of standing around like numpties", and the default movement command includes what used to be a Hide at the end.

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Even when they're Hiding the dialogue shows that some members 'peek'. In CM1 they would, given decent troop quality, spring to life when the Cover Arc was breached hiding or not. This has changed.

You can Hide a unit and still preform an ambush in CM2 provided they can still get LOS to the approaching enemy. Which is possible, for example, when looking down slope or through light cover on flat ground. Low Walls don't work. But even having a non-hiding unit like a HQ nearby doesn't help- and it should, I think. On balance I prefer the earlier routine but maybe BF had good reasons to modify it.

More minor anomalies come in to play when Armor Hides. One assumes the driver cut the engine to eliminate the sound signature. Shouldn't there be a penalty in reduced turret speed when in this state, as well as a brief delay when firing back up? Or are talking frivolous details?

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