billcarey Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 It would seem to me that in controlled withdrawl situations (Sarge says, "fall back to that wall and dig in there" not the "Run in circles, scream and shout!") troops would be more likely to withdraw while still firing (especially LMGs or BARs) to cover their butts. Not at full firepower, but still shooting. I would like to see another move (definitely a CM2 or 3 feature...) to withdraw while still facing towards the enemy and laying down fire. This would really help overextended squads live longer... I have no idea whether a firing withdrawl is standard practice... anyone in the know on this? - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 I would assume that a fighting withdrawal does not really mean guys walking backwards while shooting A fighting withdrawal means more that, e.g., one platoon is giving cover, while another moves back to new defensive positions. Then the covering platoon withdraws, while the other fire etc. So it's more a tactic to be used by the player than a game command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Capt_Manieri Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 Yeah!!! Why don't our troops in CM do that!! Fire and run. That's what they should do. But instead they turn their backs and run like pussies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted December 28, 1999 Author Share Posted December 28, 1999 Moon, I don't mean walking backwards and shooting per se - rather, the BAR lays down some fire while three guys run back 20 feet. They turn around and shoot while the BAR runs back and so on and so forth. Probably at 1/3 or 1/4 firepower and a little slower than move, but still something. I do use the other squads as support fire, but sometimes this is not an option (the other 2 squads arent there ) - Bill [This message has been edited by billcarey (edited 12-27-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 A unit must remain intact for game play reasons. You can split a squad in half if you like, but generally you can get out of more situations in better shape if you pull out the unit as a whole. Basically, CM is *not* supposed to be a sub squad level simulation. So if you find one squad in a tough spot, with NO friendlies in covering positions, your single squad might (and I stress the MIGHT part) be penalized unfairly. You shouldn't be getting your guys into such tight spots in the first place Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 billcarey, Because CM models squads I don't think the "Bar lays down fire for 3 guys in the same squad as they retreat using bounding overwatch" thing is possible. Manieri, Hmm, if you tried that in a war I'd love to see how long you'd last . What you are suggesting is not smart in modern battles and not conducive to a long life . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 A single squad on it's own is toast no matter what. The only way in which to retreat, intact, is to supress the enemy with HMG's farther back in your line, or other units nearby, along with a wack of artillery. Then, you send your troops in the direction offering the most cover from the attacking forces. Actually, having retreats like this under such heavy fire is usually the cause of bad timing. You should never wait such a long time to withdraw. If you know that overwelming forces are coming your way and you want your troops to survive is to only stick around before your enemy has time to plan their assault. Indeed, if you should never move around your troops when under fire, it is just going to give you a bloody nose no matter what. Best bet if you are ever in a situation like this is to keep put, you will be wiped out either way, but, at least you will take out more of his troops in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 all I know is, when I play quake2, i can run backwards and jump, and still maintain forward fire accuracy with my rail-gun, so there....top that people... hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 I'll I know is that when I'm in a real firefight if I get up and try to run backwards and jump I'll fall on my ass and probably kill the one or two guys saroiund me as wel as hurt myself. And there is no accuracy in that situation... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 "And there is no accuracy in that situation..." Pun intended? LOL. Accurate, no, but a real-life limitation, yep. In my own case, I wouldn't just hit the friendlies around me, I'd end up shooting off my own legs too. I wouldn't mind some form of "fighting withdrawl" feature in CM, but it should be added that only the most well-trained, veteran soldiers could pull it off----to "pull out the sock" by falling back firing. So if it were to be added as a feature, only veteran soldiers & above should be allowed to have this in their pop-down order menu. Anyway, a fighting withdrawl is possible in CM already, if you are able to apply "local" reserves. For example, if one squad (or half-squad) is initially in "reserve" position relative to the other platoon units, and the platoon needs to withdraw, then the reserve squad can provide cover fire while the forward units fall back behind it. And if the reserve squad is now "forward" as a result, the other units can then stop and provide cover while the reserve unit pulls out in turn. Basically, reversing the roles. BTW, Los, regarding the earlier topic on artillery/mortar spotting that you responded to, I just want to mention now that your later comments on actual artillery fire direction were very informative, and I appreciated reading them. I just don't care to resurrect that topic again, because my points weren't really being directly addressed (in regards to specific application to CM), but my points were very trivial anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 Major Tom has hit the nail on the head. The key to a fighting withdrawal is support from other units and/or timely orders. Trying to wait for that "one last shot" is generally a bad thing. I just was reminded of this in a small battle I played last night. My platoon was modestly supported and was holding out OK. Not fantastic, but OK. I decided to give them one more turn before falling back to a second line. Bad idea During that turn the number of enemy squads firing at me doubled, and a freaking pair of HMG42s sprung into action. Two of my units broke and then suffered massive casualties while running for the rear. If I had pulled back the turn before I would have done so largely intact, but I waited too long and things got really messy Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 Hmm... that somehow reminds me of a PBEM game I played not long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 28, 1999 Share Posted December 28, 1999 The Norwegian doctrine for "fire&movement" is easy considering every standard infantry team consists of an MG3. Either you place a "firebase" with the MG3 supressing the enemy while the team (5 men) moves out or they cover each other on the move. The common factor is that the team always splits up though. Either the MG runs or cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts