umlaut Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 I was just wondering if this was the tank in question the pic is from from mid-lat 43 and tanken at Rådhuspladsen(city hall square) copenhagen(sry for small pic in bad quallety) Well, it certainly looks very similar. But the one I mentioned was in a film clip - and as far as I remember the town hall square was quite deserted. This picture looks like it was taken at some sort of parade (?). Perhaps the clip I´ve seen was from the film you mentioned? Thanks for proving beyond doubt that there was indeed Pz IV F2/G/H´s in Denmark at the time. But could you provide any sort of explanation for why they where here? I don´t get why a tank with a gun with very good anti tank capabilities would be stationed in Denmark. It seems like a waste of valuable equipment. Tanks in Denmark would only see action when fighting riots or the resistance. And it seems to me that in that case a pz I, II or III would do the job just as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 There is this one video clip that I have seen used very often in WW2 documentaries to describe all sorts of situation. It starts off showing a view down a canal or waterway of some type then all of the sudden a massive explosion occurs and a bunch of debris is thrown toward the camera. The video quality was sort of poor and grainy and of course black and white. For some reason I seem to remember the origin of this clip was from German propaganda footage of some early war assault (maybe the Maginot Line?). Anyone else remember the one I'm talking about? I've seen this clip labeled as being from the German Assault on Fort Eben Emael in Belgium in 1940. I don't know if this is actually true or not, though. Considering that the initial assault on Eben Emael was a coup de main attack by less than Glider troops, it would surprise me if these assault troops brought a movie camera along. Then again, the Nazis always did set a high value on propaganda. It's also possible that footage is from Eben Emael, but it was not taken during the first hours of the assault, but rather later on after most of the defenses had been neutralized. The initial attack succeeded in driving the defenders away from the surface guns and largely neutered the fort, but the fort didn't actually surrender until the next day, when a larger German force arrived. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 YankeeDog, I seem to recall hearing that some of the assault was reenacted for taping and propaganda purposes after the fort was captured. Wasn't the assault also notable for the early use of shaped charges to take out the heavy fortified turrets? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Don't know offhand myself, but a reenactment is certainly possible and is definitely the sort of thing the Nazi propaganda office was known for doing. And yes; shaped charges were used by the assaulting troops to knock out the heavy casements of the fort, a technology and technique that was very new at the time. I've seen this cited as the first military use of shaped charges, in fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don´t get why a tank with a gun with very good anti tank capabilities would be stationed in Denmark. It seems like a waste of valuable equipment. Tanks in Denmark would only see action when fighting riots or the resistance. And it seems to me that in that case a pz I, II or III would do the job just as well. Units recovering from a longer turn on the front and training units usually trained on the real equipment. You would find older equipment just in the very basic training. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.B_Martinsen Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Same place as whit the Pz.IV taking in juni 43 so there you go there was allso panzer IIIs dunno what Ausf however the front one i cant even see if its even a pzIII, the text to the pic says its panzers belonging to the 233rd reserve panzer division under generalleutnant Max Feremerey, the pz IV from other pic cud be from same unit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Don't know offhand myself, but a reenactment is certainly possible and is definitely the sort of thing the Nazi propaganda office was known for doing. I definitely recall reading that they had filmed a re-enactment. Hitler was quite thrilled with the success of the operation; even had himself photographed with "the boys". Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Same place as whit the Pz.IV taking in juni 43 so there you go there was allso panzer IIIs dunno what Ausf however the front one i cant even see if its even a pzIII, the text to the pic says its panzers belonging to the 233rd reserve panzer division under generalleutnant Max Feremerey, the pz IV from other pic cud be from same unit Mystery solved then. According to "German Order of Battle volume 3" by Samuel W Mitcham Jr, the 233rd Panzer division: Established as a special purposes motorized division on May 15, 1942. It's mission was to control motorized replacement and training units in the III military district. It was reorganized as a reserve panzer grenadier division on July 7, 1942. On August 10, 1943 it became the 233rd Reserve Panzer Division. It was sent to central Jutland shortly therafter. It remained in Denmark, headquartered at Horsens training panzer crews and motorized troops until the end of the war. Although it officially became a panzer division on Feb 22, 1945 it never saw combat. It had only 34 tanks in any case. Max Fremerey took command on June 7, 1944 and remained in command until the war's end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerfest Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I definitely recall reading that they had filmed a re-enactment. Hitler was quite thrilled with the success of the operation; even had himself photographed with "the boys". Michael According to 'After the Battle #5' the footage is legit. "At 7:00am the next day the 51st Sapper Battalion managed to cross the canal and the well-known pictures of the dinghy crossing the cutting were taken at this point. They then advanced on Block 2 which, if it could be silenced, would leave the north of the fort defenseless and enable the whole battalion to enter the fortress. The observation dome had already had a 50kg charge exploded on it by men from Glider 3 and later a 12.5kg from Glider 9. A German cameraman was on hand to record the attack on this blockhouse, led by Feldwebel Portsteffen which he began with a flame-thrower attack. A 50kg charge was exploded against the embrasure , killing one Belgium soldier and wounding six others and the position silenced." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 According to 'After the Battle #5' the footage is legit. "At 7:00am the next day the 51st Sapper Battalion managed to cross the canal and the well-known pictures of the dinghy crossing the cutting were taken at this point. They then advanced on Block 2 which, if it could be silenced, would leave the north of the fort defenseless and enable the whole battalion to enter the fortress. The observation dome had already had a 50kg charge exploded on it by men from Glider 3 and later a 12.5kg from Glider 9. A German cameraman was on hand to record the attack on this blockhouse, led by Feldwebel Portsteffen which he began with a flame-thrower attack. A 50kg charge was exploded against the embrasure , killing one Belgium soldier and wounding six others and the position silenced." Ah. So there we go. Not filmed during the initial Coup de Main by the glider assault force, but filmed the next day before the fort had completely capitulated, and when other German forces began to arrive via overland means to finish off the reduction of the fort. Makes sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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