Bridges Grrr

[sonar]

Hi, I thought this was fixed? in the last two games I've played, that had bridges in them, I have lost tanks to them. The tanks go down into the water under the bridge, when attempting to cross, then just sit there. I can give them waypoints at the beginning of a turn, but by the end of the turn the have not moved and the waypoint is gone. This is very annoying and should be fixed if possible. Cheers.

[slysniper]

I have yet to loose a single thing to a bridge other than a person or two.

I just make sure that the path points are selected that gives me a line right over the center of the bridge from end to end. Every once in a while it will want to snap me to a point that does not show it that way. I go back and do it again until I get the perfect point.

I do not let the AI create the path by just placing the wanted end point.

[sburke]

Tried CW air attack which is a bridge builders wet dream. Over all my units crossed just fine...until of course they ran into the enemy, but that's a different story. However I had one little pixel trooper who apparently really likes playing by the water as he fled an attack to the water's edge and then refused to leave there for the duration of the battle despite being fully rested and recovered. I got the rest of the section to join him and see if they could encourage him to move on, but nope. Water is cool, artillery bad, me stay here. eh (yeah he is Canadian)

[IanL]

I recently had this problem to and asked about it. Other than @slysniper's advice the other thing I do now is increase my elevation level and tilt the camera down. Once I am looking almost straight down and am high enough to see the whole bridge plus some of the land the way points will drop where I want them.

Then I plot the movement orders close to one end of the bridge and I make sure one way point is on land right next to the bridge centred on the bridge. Then I plot the next way point on the land on the other side of the bridge so the path runs right down the middle (this is @slysniper's advice from above). Then continue the your pathing as normal on the other side of the bridge.

In my case I was having trouble getting way points to drop on the land near the bridge and the tanks ended up in the water instead of on land.

[IanL]

Water is cool, artillery bad, me stay here. eh (yeah he is Canadian)

Smart guy. Probably saved his life and those of his buddies be being so suborn.

[sonar]

Hi, yeah I know about plotting the waypoints, but it still happens.

[Tashtego]

Saw your post. Did a little test on my proving grounds and these vehicles crossed ok. I made sure my path went right down the middle of those bridges and did not touch the water at any point. Mike.

[General Lee Irked]

Happened to me with the Huzzar map. CMBN-CW It did not help that there was a destroyed enemy recon vehicle on it. Bridge ate 2 of my Shermans, which was 1 more than the Germans could claim.

I sent a half track across it later just to test and the halftrack slowly crossed, disappeared by clipping through the bridge then reappeared as it continued across.

Did I plot those two Shermans perfectly...? Well I thought so but the burning enemy unit probably had something(everything) to do with it, and due to Huzzars large map and multitude of units I simply did not give it my full attention. I am " mentally gifted" with my own special AI... it is called Absent Intelligence.

I chalk it up to mechanical breakdown due to negligence from the mechanics who apparently tied one on with some "misappropriated" wine and champagne.

So the "bug", is still there, however it does take some negligence on the player for it to occur IMO and experience.

[GhostRider3/3]

Happened to me with the Huzzar map. CMBN-CW It did not help that there was a destroyed enemy recon vehicle on it. Bridge ate 2 of my Shermans, which was 1 more than the Germans could claim.

I sent a half track across it later just to test and the halftrack slowly crossed, disappeared by clipping through the bridge then reappeared as it continued across.

Did I plot those two Shermans perfectly...? Well I thought so but the burning enemy unit probably had something(everything) to do with it, and due to Huzzars large map and multitude of units I simply did not give it my full attention. I am " mentally gifted" with my own special AI... it is called Absent Intelligence.

I chalk it up to mechanical breakdown due to negligence from the mechanics who apparently tied one on with some "misappropriated" wine and champagne.

So the "bug", is still there, however it does take some negligence on the player for it to occur IMO and experience.

Yes, I have noticed if there are vehicles destroyed on the bridge.. the pathing sometimes gets all crazy. Vehicles try to pass the knocked out vehicles on the bridge.. but sometimes they never go to the bridge but try and find another route.

By the way can demo teams blow bridges?

[GhostRider3/3]

Saw your post. Did a little test on my proving grounds and these vehicles crossed ok. I made sure my path went right down the middle of those bridges and did not touch the water at any point. Mike.

I would say try this again with a knocked out vehicle or two on each bridge.. then see how they path? I think this problems is still not 100%. but bridges are normal choke points anyways..

I mean lets face it.. if a ATG, or tank has coverage of the bridge and already has knocked out a couple of vehicles, you would not send your entire company over there, but try and find an ALT route.

That being said, i always design maps with alternatives when including bridges.

[Tashtego]

I would say try this again with a knocked out vehicle or two on each bridge.. then see how they path? I think this problems is still not 100%. but bridges are normal choke points anyways..

I mean lets face it.. if a ATG, or tank has coverage of the bridge and already has knocked out a couple of vehicles, you would not send your entire company over there, but try and find an ALT route.

That being said, i always design maps with alternatives when including bridges.

I tried it again as you suggested. The 2 Shermans on the left are knocked out. The 2 vehicles to the right have been given move commands to the other side of the bridge.

They passed thru the dead tanks ok.

However, then I had them reverse back across the bridge, I made them stop on the bridge. The next turn when I clicked on them. Nothing. They simply were stuck on the bridge. In the image below the original knocked out Shermans are in the foreground. In the background, are my 2 new dead vehicles.

[womble]

By the way can demo teams blow bridges?

No, but artillery and other explosions can. A couple of Shermans cooking off on a bridge left it only needing a modicum of encouragement from 75mm HE near-misses to collapse in a recent scenario I played. It seems relatively common for the heavy mortars in School of Hard Knocks to drop the bridge.

[Chris Ferrous]

Yes, I had a single Sherman cook off and blow up on a short bridge, and that brought the thing toppling down. Another Sherman which had just taken the risk of passing the burning tank using a smoke screen then fell backwards off the very end of the bridge and became immobile halfway down the rubble. I thought that was quite neat.

As regards the guy reported earlier to be just paddling and not moving I think this is another rare and minor bug not necessarily related to bridges. Rarely, I have noted that one team member can go AWOL and apparently act entirely independently of the rest of the group. Sometimes it's just that individual that remains under command (maybe if the individual is the leader) and sometimes only the rest of the squad can be moved. But it really does seem to be extremely rare and only under extremes of battle stress.

The worst example I had of the above was when a MG squad behind bocage took flanking fire and I asked them to pop smoke and flee. They didn't. Then I realised the number of troops at the location didn't match the number of weapon icons, and initially assumed two pixeltruppen were superimposed. However when I spotted a random smoke cloud about 150m away, I looked back through previous turns and realised one team member, I think the leader, had gone beserk and charged towards the enemy. The smoke erupted from the 'mean position' of the unit (e.g when you unit lock during an assault order and the squad splits up) and the unit was immobile until the 'beserker' was gunned down. All squadies then being together in one action spot, the unit became under my control once more. Weird.

[slysniper]

I tried it again as you suggested. The 2 Shermans on the left are knocked out. The 2 vehicles to the right have been given move commands to the other side of the bridge.

They passed thru the dead tanks ok.

However, then I had them reverse back across the bridge, I made them stop on the bridge. The next turn when I clicked on them. Nothing. They simply were stuck on the bridge. In the image below the original knocked out Shermans are in the foreground. In the background, are my 2 new dead vehicles.

There is issues, no mistake about that, but they are different ones.

You have to learn to avoid the different ones.

Here is the problem on this comment. You stopped the tanks on the bridge. Advice, never do that. I found this is a thing the program does not like. It will not let you give commands to the unit from that point onward sometimes. So that is not good, not good at all.

Also once the units are in water (not the bridge issue, just water issue) they may decide to never leave. Everyone has been reporting this with the bridges because men get into the water at the bridge point where they should not. But I have noticed on some of the scenarios with beaches, Men will also find themselves in water hexes that are not crossings and they will stay there for the rest of the battle and you cannot get them to move.

[sburke]

Also once the units are in water (not the bridge issue, just water issue) they may decide to never leave. Everyone has been reporting this with the bridges because men get into the water at the bridge point where they should not. But I have noticed on some of the scenarios with beaches, Men will also find themselves in water hexes that are not crossings and they will stay there for the rest of the battle and you cannot get them to move.

Yeah BFC has been pretty blunt at times about the difficulties water represents in programming and likely why it never showed up in CMSF. It's fine for a board game or a 2D computer game, but the mechanics it represents in the 3D world are apparently really really difficult to iron out.

I have started paying more attention to scenarios with bridges and lots of water and avoiding them. I can usually get around the issues however it is an item I find distracting having to worry about. That and having my butt handed to me 3 times now trying to figure out bridge assault tactics.. I need a change of scenery. Maybe I'll go get my butt handed to me in an urban setting...