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Combat Mission ww2 Africa?


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I was just talking to a mate who really wants a good ww2 African game. This game with its history of shock force would be perfect. Modders could do it now but I believe the models are locked.

Is this engine slated for Africa at some point. IIRC Its going to all the usual places first... western front, western front, eastern front?

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Well I must say its a bit annoying that almost every game under the sun that does ww2 always misses France, Africa and Italy.

I know they have done it before. But how easy would it be. Almost everything including models and terrain is already in for the desert.

I'm afraid that CMAK and that entire series was lost on me because of the infantry abstraction and representation. CMx2 is what I want.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104048&highlight=modules

"Eastern front won't be a module - modules are much more limited in scope. It will be a new 'base game' which will have its own modules. Actually it will be several new base games for different parts of the war. Much as in the west, we have CM:BN, which with modules will eventully cover up until September '44 and Market Garden. Then there will be a new base game for the Bulge with modules to extend that through to the end of the war.

So, each base game covers part of the war in a given theatre, and gets expanded by 2-3 modules that add in extra equipment and formations (and nationalities).

The last general statement by BFC on the east front was that the outline plan was for one base game to cover each year of the war (very roughly speaking). So the entire front would be something like 4 base games, each with 2-3 modules. Which at current release rates means the entire eastern front will just about be ready in time for the 100th anniversary of Barbarossa in 2041..."

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I know BFC have said they won't go back to Africa but I do find it a bit puzzling. I never played CMSF but I assume they got the desert environment nailed, so wouldn't a WWII Africa module be an easy win? Or is it that they can face modelling all those Italian vehicles?

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It didn't sell that well. And the CM1 engine was getting rickety.

It appears the best selling titles are those which:

1- Include Americans

2- Feature dazzling and potent vehicles

3- Enlist the Waffen SS

4- Showpiece two mighty nations in an apocalyptic war of survival.

Early WW2 misses 1,2 and 4

N. Africa misses 2 and 3 (yes, the Tiger made an appearance towards the end)

The War in the East covers 3 of the 4. So, that's the one.

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From my understanding, the MTO has never been good "box office" in the wargaming industry even going back to the cardboard days. Games set during the Desert War and/or Sicily/Italy have never sold anywhere near titles set in the ETO 1944-1945.

Apparently Battlefront found this out when CMAK didn't sell anywhere near as well CMBO. (Sadly, CMBB also didn't come close to rivaling CMBO's sales figures. It appears that not even the titanic struggles of Stalingrad, Kursk, and Berlin could overcome the provincialism of American and British PC gamers who may take a chance on wargames set in Normandy, Market-Garden, and the Bulge, but not much else.)

There are just not enough of us WWII gaming junkies to justify the expense of a Desert War module. Even the much desired CMx2 version of the East Front will be a tougher sale for Battlefront than CMBN and the planned for Bulge game. The realities of our "niche" hobby and running a profitable business are not always a happy marriage.

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(It appears that not even the titanic struggles of Stalingrad, Kursk, and Berlin could overcome the provincialism of American and British PC gamers who may take a chance on wargames set in Normandy, Market-Garden, and the Bulge, but not much else.)

Well I must be in the minority...I love Normandy and the Bulge, but think I am played out of Market Garden, maybe even the Bulge. (How many Bulge games have I had over the years? 3-4 in cardboard, at least as many with pixels.)

The western front lasted less than a year...there's four years of eastern front battles to draw from. Finnish Front! Sebastapol!

With CM2 or better I would love Barbarossa; Summers of 42 / 43 / 44, anytime. Give me the wide open steppes...

I didn't find CMBN til late last year. I was still playing TalonSoft's Eastern Front...a game engine well past its prime. But those divisional level battles were awesome...

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North Africa I suspect is doable now subject to a restricted palette of tanks. Shermans, MkIV's, Tigers etc. And if it is the scenery then Tunisia is also probably fine for representation. I am talking countryside as I know there is not the buildings currently.

Think of the benefits of fewer trees and hedges : ) More tanks . open flanks, light vehicles scurrying from cover to cover. Ok restricted maybe but what a pleasant change from the claustrophobia of Normandy.

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Company of Heroes 2 coming out next year is going to be set entirely on the Eastern front, so I would expect it's popularity to rise among among strategy gamers. I think there is more interest now than when CMBB came out, if only because people are tired of fighting the same Western front battles over and over. Also, games like Men of War and Call of Duty have often ventured there over the last few years. There's also Red Orchestra, and that new mod/game for ARMA 2 that is entirely on the Ostfront.

So, now that I think about it, Germany vs USSR is probably more popular now than it has ever been.

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Company of Heroes 2 coming out next year is going to be set entirely on the Eastern front, so I would expect it's popularity to rise among among strategy gamers.

You may be right. War in the East, Grigsby's 2nd magnum opus, shows 108,000 posts in the Matrix forum.

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You may be right. War in the East, Grigsby's 2nd magnum opus, shows 108,000 posts in the Matrix forum.

Well, I was referring more to the general strategy gaming population, not people are already playing strategic level wargames. :P For most of them, a game like Men of War is the height of realism.

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Must say that I'm rather fed up with the Western Front 44-45. Playing the Brits makes a change but I'd rather do the Eastern Front or even the Med. The desert itself can be a bit dull but I'd still like to see it in CMx2. That's after 35 years or so of wargaming both cardboard and pixelly. Models and figures even.

I've never had a proper PTO wargaming experience though. Never got hold of the ASL PTO modules back in the days of having the time on my hands to actually play them. I think Uncommon Valour is the only real go I've had at PTO.

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Apparently Battlefront found this out when CMAK didn't sell anywhere near as well CMBO. (Sadly, CMBB also didn't come close to rivaling CMBO's sales figures. It appears that not even the titanic struggles of Stalingrad, Kursk, and Berlin could overcome the provincialism of American and British PC gamers who may take a chance on wargames set in Normandy, Market-Garden, and the Bulge, but not much else.)

I think there may be a flaw in your reasoning. One of the biggest reasons CMBO did so well in the market was that it was a sensational innovation. Although CMBB incorporated real improvements in the game engine, it wasn't the kind of quantum leap forward that the earlier game was, so had less appeal for the naïve gamer who wasn't already committed to squad level WW II gaming. Also affecting the naïve gamer was the lack of recent box office smashes about the Eastern Front. SPR and BoB to a certain extent primed players for a game like CMBO.

But over the history of wargaming as a whole for the last 40-45 years, the Eastern Front has always had a huge audience, perhaps the largest.

And North Africa has been a steady draw, if less so in recent years. I think the problem there is that game companies have lacked the knowledge and imagination to tap into what is actually a very intriguing situation. I predict that whoever comes up with an original reading of the combat in that theater will make a mint.

Michael

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As much as I understand that early war themed games aren't as profitable as the more typical late-war and especially ETO-based games are, it's still very unfortunate. I would love to see an early war France/low countries based game with the CMx2 engine. There has never really been any good games similar to Combat Mission that feature the early war battles and it would be an absolute treat to play them, especially so with a Combat Mission title. I wouldn't know what to do with myself and the sheer amount of time it would take from my life to play a series of CM titles that featured Poland, France/low countries and Denmark/Norway.

tl;dr: Combat Mission early war = a wet dream come true.

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I don't think this will happen. Maybe the terrain stuff already has a head start due to the CM:SF stuff, but there would be a huge need to add new units: Matildas, Crusaders, all that Italian stuff, Lee/Grants (with the dual main gun issues), portees... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head, sure I'm leaving lots out.

It took almost 11 months to get the CW module out with a nice enough but hardly enormous set of new vehicles and units, I just think that North Africa's demands would be far more substantial and not worth it time wise for them.

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The turnaround would be faster if Battlefront stopped fretting about getting the interiors right.

Aye, that'd be right near the bottom of my priority list if it were me doing the game, and while it is awe-inspiring what they've done, it wouldn't have changed my buying decision had the vehicles been solids or hollow, whichever's easier to handle, code-wise. Then again, I never had any problem with playing tabletop wargames with unpainted figures, which makes me a heathen and subject to righteous burning to some of the people in the wargames scene :)

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Well CMSF and especially CM:A did great with the desert. While I beta WWII titles as well as the modern ones, I very much prefer CMSF because of the increased lethality of the battlefield. I dream about upgrading them to the newer engine though LOL.

But instead of them someday making African/Med theater, I wish they would start working on a PTO game, especially with the improvements over the x1 engine that we have now. Infantry-centric battles hold my attention far more than combined arms. Plus the Japanese of that era are just fascinating, and actually beach landings not being abstracted would be amazing. Maybe I will start buying Steve some books and send him some uniforms of the players there. Maybe he will soften, what you guys think?

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I would love to see an early war France/low countries based game with the CMx2 engine. There has never really been any good games similar to Combat Mission that feature the early war battles and it would be an absolute treat to play them, especially so with a Combat Mission title. I wouldn't know what to do with myself and the sheer amount of time it would take from my life to play a series of CM titles that featured Poland, France/low countries and Denmark/Norway.

The closest thing I can think of would be Crescendo of Doom from waaaay back in the cardboard days. It was probably my favorite SL title.

Michael

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...PTO game, especially with the improvements over the x1 engine that we have now. Infantry-centric battles hold my attention far more than combined arms...

To me, that's missing one of the major points of the conflict. Infantry-only fights just change in rate of casualty infliction per trooper between the Indian Wars and Vietnam. Either that, or they're musket line v. musket line (though at least those usually have cavalry and artillery involved). The attraction of ww2 for me is that it's the first conflict where armour is a standard feature, and the combination of foot, mounted and gun troops in infinite variations. For me, infantry only fights stop being interesting above the platoon level, so CM isn't the appropriate tool to play with them.

Plus the Japanese of that era are just fascinating...

What's particularly fascinating/unique about their infantry warfighting though? The culture and background, granted, are interesting, but I'm curious as to the main points of interest that you'd see in a CM-scale game.

...beach landings not being abstracted would be amazing...

I don't know what's interesting about being shot to bits on open sand...

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Plus the Japanese of that era are just fascinating...

What's particularly fascinating/unique about their infantry warfighting though? The culture and background, granted, are interesting, but I'm curious as to the main points of interest that you'd see in a CM-scale game.

The banzai charge! A tactic to which no sensible Japanese commander would resort in CMPT.

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<SNIPPED>

And North Africa has been a steady draw, if less so in recent years. I think the problem there is that game companies have lacked the knowledge and imagination to tap into what is actually a very intriguing situation. I predict that whoever comes up with an original reading of the combat in that theater will make a mint.

Michael

I concur. To me, North Africa computer gaming has long lacked both a game engine and campaign scenarios suiting my taste at company grade / kampfgruppen levels. CMx2 is a perfect engine for such. It's a platform which would do real justice to Rick Atkinson's narrative "An Army at Dawn" as well as the earlier Italian, British, and German campaigns preceding Operation Torch and all that followed; the north African campaigns created combat operations of the purest forms. I'd buy a Combat Mission Afrika game! I'd certainly play such mods!!

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