HTML Mapping Tool V 1.1

[StoneAge]

HTML Mapping Tool version 1.1

The tool now has the ability to place bridges and a few other minor updates.

I have started to change the links on buildings to match the way I do it on bridges with a linked image for each building (will take some time if anybody wants to create these images for me it will get done quicker)

All you need to do is download the zip file

http://www.dnnspecialists.com.au/CMBN/HTMLMappingTool-v1.1.zip

and then extract it to your computer. When this is done you can view the help.htm in the help folder. This should tell you almost everything you will need to know and the current process I use.

This tool is desgined to give CMBN map makers the ability to take full advantage of Google Earth, other arial photography, maps or anything that can be turned into an image. The tool allows you to place your image on a background layer and then build up the ground, roads and trees on layers. Each layer can be turned on and off independantly allowing you to still see the background image. Once completed the map is exported to a file to later be turned into a "click map", this click map is then processed by the "auto clicker" to build the map in the CMBN Editor.

This is the first test release of this tool. (so it does not have all features completed yet i.e bridges, Modular buildings above 5 levels or flavor objects).

HTML Mapping Tool runs locally in a browser (I use Firefox, have had it working in IE, have not tested Chrome or Safari) the other processing tools CMBN Click Map Maker and Auto Clicker are (PC only sorry mac guys)

Next mission is to build a tool that will allow for the adding of Flavour Objects to the maps. I have been testing with the CMBN Click Map Maker and I can place flavour objects onto a map. The problem is that you can have 14 flavour ojects per sqaure of the map (I placed head stones). The other problem is that there is no way to set the direction without going into the 3D preview.

Moon if your reading this can we get a compass built into the editor to set the direction of flavour objects in the map section.

Hope you all enjoy the tool

[Redwolf]

I'm torn between thinking how cool this is and at the same time how sad it is that wargame developers are so uncooperative that you had to program a remote control utility to get the map into the game via mouseclick emulation

[Thomm]

I'm torn between thinking how cool this is and at the same time how sad it is that wargame developers are so uncooperative that you had to program a remote control utility to get the map into the game via mouseclick emulation.

I am sure that he had a lot of fun doing it. Sense of achievement, you know.

As for being "uncooperative": I once wrote a tool that read map data from Eric Young's Squad Assault maps and ran it through a ray tracer to produce shaded ground textures with hand-tuned contrast enhancement on maps that were almost flat. The results were pretty nice.

The situation was the following: I was on the beta team. The developers were fully aware of my intentions. The implications for the optical appearance were remarkable.

Yet I had to reverse-engineer the binary format of the map files all by myself, measure the buildings and objects myself (for building corresponding raytracer objects) and so on. In full view of the developers.

And why all this: Because (wait for it!) obviously they had MORE IMPORTANT things to do than to support a volunteer who got the job done anyway.

Reality hurts sometimes.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Redwolf]

Reality hurts sometimes.

Reality also is that e.g. Panzer Command does support map import from XML files.

[Thomm]

Reality also is that e.g. Panzer Command does support map import from XML files.

Good for them.

Made me take a look at the Matrix Games forums.

The Matrix Scenario Center does not even have an entry for Panzer Command. I think I found one new scenario during the five minutes I spent there.

I can extrapolate how many maps were imported from XML files.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Redwolf]

I can extrapolate how many maps were imported from XML files.

How? I can't.

In any case, they have import of base maps from public sources like google maps for a long while, with the support of the developer.

I really don't see how trying to lock people into doing only click-click-click in some dogfood style provided tool is supposed to keep wargaming as a hobby (much less industry) alive.

[Thomm]

How? I can't.

Certainly you know more about PCO map making than me, if only for the fact that the game did not attract me when I played the demo and I therefore did not follow the forums. But I assume that you are talking about the support of modding by enabling map data import. And I did not see a lot of signs of map making by the PCO community when I checked today.

In any case, they have import of base maps from public sources like google maps for a long while, with the support of the developer.

Most definitely true, and the corresponding demonstrations by Mad Russian were impressive for sure. But did it help to support interest in the game in the long run?

I really don't see how trying to lock people into doing only click-click-click in some dogfood style provided tool is supposed to keep wargaming as a hobby (much less industry) alive.

I grant BFC the right to think first and foremost of what fills their bank accounts and after that of the future of wargaming as a hobby.

Best regards,

Thomm

[StoneAge]

As a developer I agree with you Thomm but the player in me just wants a xml map import. Then I could do away with the clicker and impove the process.

[Thomm]

As a developer I agree with you Thomm but the player in me just wants a xml map import. Then I could do away with the clicker and impove the process.

Of course!!

I just checked out your program and it is very clean and impressive! Kudos to you for pulling through something as involved as this!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Redwolf]

I think PzC has too many shortcoming in technology and other areas to use it to judge how important or unimportant this feature is.

I also don't see how not providing a XML interface increases their revenue when people actually do write mouseclick emulation tools. That is specifically addressed at Thomm, I don't think anybody else would use that kind of hyperbole.

[Thomm]

That is specifically addressed at Thomm, I don't think anybody else would use that kind of hyperbole.

Whatever.

Best regards,

Thomm

[A Canadian Cat]

Driving the GUI to provide "out of program" enhancements is an inherently fragile design. Even a slight change to the program can break the added value community. This is why software companies do not support tools of that nature. They need to be able to fix things and redesign problem GUI components as needed.

The right way for "out of program" tools to be created is with a public (or private) interface of some kind. That can be a programming interface (API) or a file import interface or even a command line interface. When a company designs such an interface they are also offering support for that interface and an assurance that changes to that interface will be managed some how so that supporting programs will not break without notice.

The business advantage for companies doing this is that it helps create and expand a community of users. Part time developers add value around the edges of the vendor's product and the customers get additional features or other benefits. An excellent game related example of this is Eve Online. They have a API interface that has been used by many out of game developers and even players themselves. In their case the "out of program" developers are adding a lot of reporting applications (players can track important events in the game - your kills for example plus trading information that can rival stock exchange's reporting) and some design applications (ship design assistants).

An example that might be relevant here is map and scenario design. Clearly BFC's current map editor is doing its job. Lots of scenario are being created and people are really enjoying many of them. Well done everyone. But there are people out there who would like to design scenarios but feel there is a barrier to their entry. I am one such person (see item 1 on my wish list). There is a long list of features that designers would like to see in the map editor. Those items go on a back log of things BFC would like to do and they have to prioritize them.

Lets be clear. 1) Prioritizing features is the right thing to do. 2) BFC has show, in my opinion, that they are excellent at doing that. 3) I mostly agree with their choices. 4) I back them in their decisions even when I don't agree. (After all it is there game)

What that means is that if BFC spends their time on non map scenario editor capabilities there is a group of people who will not create scenarios. And the simple fact is that might be just fine. You never know I might suck at creating scenarios:-)

Here is where having a map creation API or file import capability comes in handy. There is a cost to them for giving me my top feature in a future game. There is a cost to them for giving other people their top feature. An alternative is to declare the current editor good enough and instead spending the cost of developing several new features towards creating a way for out of game developers to enhance (or replace) the map / scenario editor. They pay that once and then essentially forget about making new enhancements to the editor.

If there are enough people willing to spend some time working on this area new tools can be made that provide a kick start to map editing just like @StoneAge has done. Apps using a supported interface become more reliable because they will be supported from release to release. It means that @StoneAge can work on new features he wants with confidence that his program will last long term. It also means that BFC can see what features really are used by designers. So in future games they can incorporate some of those ideas into the game. Or better yet they can look at the what features are hard for out of game developers to do and provide support for those areas in the game editor.

More clarity: 1) I am *not* saying anything bad about @StoneAge's work. My opinion is quite the opposite I am very impressed and I would like to see more such work and for that work to be easier. 2) Click driving the GUI is not a good design choice in general terms. Currently there is no other choice for a tool like this: therefore saying that is in no way a criticism of @StoneAge for for that matter BFC.

OK I'll stop now - long post.

Just my 4c worth.

Ian

[sfhand]

Bringing this back to life to add...

A benefit to BF would also be reduced development time. They ship a lot of maps with their games and I'm guessing any improvement in the editor that speeds up the mapmaking process would shorten their development time and put those $$$'s in their accounts sooner.

Hopefully if/when they do something like this there will be a CSV for each tile that addresses flammability

[76mm]

And I did not see a lot of signs of map making by the PCO community when I checked today.

I can't speak about PzC in particular, since I don't play it either, but for many Matrix games their forum is not the most active forum, in fact it can be totally dead while the forum of the developer or some other forum might be very active. So I don't think you can necessarily judge the popularity of this feature by checking Matrix' forum.