Hunt Command suggestion

[HarryB]

I had a tank going around a hedge to kill some infantry that was there. He spotted one of the soldiers and promptly lost sight of him. That didn’t prevent him from coming to a complete halt and just sitting there waiting to be killed by the infantry he had just spotted and lost; to him they didn’t exist, they just popped into reality and disappeared once he couldn’t see them anymore. I wish the ‘Hunt’ command would allow units to continue on the path you had set if they see an enemy and then lose sight of them. I don’t know how many times I have seen where a tank I have issued the ‘Hunt’ command to has seen an infantry soldier running between cover off in the distance and stopped and just sat there for the rest of the minute doing nothing.

[Erwin]

CM1 used to have "Move to Contact" which would have that effect on a vehicle when it saw inf. But, HUNT ignored threats other than armor IIRC. Sorry we lost that in CM2.

[Bradley Dick]

Yeah, I miss hunt armor and move to contact. That horse is beaten all to **** by now.

[sburke]

Might wanting try using slow if your intent is to not stop completely.

[skogtroll]

No! Using slow command isn't an equivalent of old hunt command. This should be corrected in new patch (IMO). I also think that a few another new commands should be created. I am thinking that we need new arc's (armor and light) and 2nd target command. Now your tank is firing the whole minute before you can use clear target. With new target command tank should only fire 1-3 times (Marder III for example has only a few HE rounds).

[Hister]

I agree - I also miss such a command.

[TheVulture]

CM1 used to have "Move to Contact" which would have that effect on a vehicle when it saw inf. But, HUNT ignored threats other than armor IIRC. Sorry we lost that in CM2.

Nope, HUNT would have units stop while there was any enemy visible (or they were taking fire) and start moving again once contact was lost. You could you runits ignore anything apart from armour by combing hunt with a covered armour arc (they would only stop for units inside the arc for a normal cover arc, and only vehicles inside the arc with a cover armour arc).

And yes, covered armour arcs and the old hunt functionality are probably the two most commonly requested features to makea re-appearance on these forums.

[Sakai007]

I have adapted to losing the old commands. I really don't think they would work as well as we think in this setting anyways. It feels like the requirements to spot an enemy unit are far more demanding now then they were before. You need to be at a stop to spot anything worth while (AT guns for example) so I use slow movements with pauses of 30 seconds at waypoints. The last leg of the movement order will generally be the hunt command since that is where I will expect enemy contact. I think an armor cover arc is something really needed, but I can get by without it. These types of things are where guys that have played CMSF for years will have the advantage over folks that have only been with the CMx2 system for a year since CMBN was released.

[Lanzfeld]

No! Using slow command isn't an equivalent of old hunt command. This should be corrected in new patch (IMO). I also think that a few another new commands should be created. I am thinking that we need new arc's (armor and light) and 2nd target command. Now your tank is firing the whole minute before you can use clear target. With new target command tank should only fire 1-3 times (Marder III for example has only a few HE rounds).

Why dont you just use a target command with a 30 second pause then put in a very very short move command and at the end of that and add a face command (to stop the target command)? They shoot 30 seconds and stop. Simple.

[skogtroll]

No, because this is only a substitute. There aren't many other things in CMx2 which was in CMx1 (I know there are many news). Hunt command was in this series and used to work well.

[sburke]

No, because this is only a substitute. There aren't many other things in CMx2 which was in CMx1 (I know there are many news). Hunt command was in this series and used to work well.

That's exactly the point, we are trying to suggest a substitute. Maybe BFC will consider adding in a different command, maybe they won't, but right now it isn't there. Figuring we have all been over this ground many many times over the past year (dang has it been that long already?) maybe it is time to figure out how to use the tools you've been given to try to achieve the results (or something close) you are looking for. Just a thought as your original post didn't refer back to CMx1 at all.

[Childress]

Or BFC can, in response to this incessant request, re-introduce the Armor Arc for the human player only. That's how it worked in CM1. I find that those obsessed with this feature underestimate the targeting smarts of the TacAI in the current engine.

[Brindlewolf]

I find using slow with a 180 target arc for the whole map infront of the tank more than adequate.I've seen my tanks confronted by both infantry and tanks and seen my tank fire the main gun on the enemy tanks and used the bow Mg for infantry.I was quite impressed with that.

As far as close quarter tanking goes,there should always be an infantry umbrella of sorts screening it anyway,either scouting or building clearing.

Using slow,the tank will still stop and engage for a fraction of a second before moving on.

[HarryB]

I haven't played CMx1 for a number of years so I don't recall how everything worked. I do seem to remember the tanks continuing on their path if they spotted something and then lost it. I wonder why BFC changed the order? There must be some reason, but it really seems to me that the current 'Hunt' command is far less useful than the old one, and can easily get you into trouble. It is definitely frustrating when your tank spots an infantryman who pokes his head out of cover for a second and then disappears. It messes up your entire order and can often leave your tank in a vulnerable position.

[Childress]

I wonder why BFC changed the order? There must be some reason...

Good game design? If they implemented everything we clamor for, every command, we might end up enjoying it less than we thought. That doesn't necessarily mean that at some point they may decide to re-insert some feature or option from the past.

[HarryB]

Good game design? If they implemented everything we clamor for, every command, we might end up enjoying it less than we thought. That doesn't necessarily mean that at some point they may decide to re-insert some feature or option from the past.

Good game design...really? Do you really think it is a good decision to take the Hunt command and nerf it so that vehicles stop and don't move any further once they catch sight of any enemy troops, no matter how far away? I don't think so. Still, there must be a reason, and I would love to know what that reason was; unless it was "Oops, we messed up here, but it would be too much of a pain to correct our oversight now".

[sburke]

and they're off! It's "they nerfed the game, those idiots, what do they think they know about game design" in the lead followed closely by "you are not yet ready for the great mysteries to be revealed young skywalker"!

Have I characterized the two positions correctly from each other's perspective? I think so and I can pretty much guess how the next few pages of the thread will go.

[Childress]

Good game design...really? Do you really think it is a good decision to take the Hunt command and nerf it so that vehicles stop and don't move any further once they catch sight of any enemy troops, no matter how far away?

Yes. And you can endow the the moving units with a limited Arc that will prevent those halts.

The game already teeters on the edge of over-complexity. Esp for new players. Maybe not for us. I have a list of minor bugs I'd like to see addressed. For example should we really *know*, playing on Elite, that a spotted enemy unit is detachment C of squad 2? But on the whole, the CM2 system comes together as a well thought out, even elegant design. The creators are grogs, too. Some experienced users want to weigh the game down with their own pet additions. Part of the art is knowing when to prune.

BFC also cares about aesthetics which is why command lines or player-resizable units won't be re-appearing. But they've already intimated they'll be adding a new command or two for the next major release, not to mention a slicker UI.

[HarryB]

I am not saying that the people at BFC are stupid. Life has taught me though, that even the brightest people are sometimes idiots and everyone, even so called 'experts' make plenty of mistakes. Being fallible is part of being human.

Making it so that units issued the Hunt command continue on their assigned path does not make the game more complex in any way that I can see.

If someone at BFC would say why the Hunt command was altered from CMx1 to make units stop after they had spotted an enemy and not continue after contact was lost, that would put this discussion to rest. We could then debate the merits of why that decision was made, but we would at least know why.

[Childress]

Fair enough. The rightness or wrongness of their decisions of their decisions can be determined by the number of units they sold, the volume of posts on this forum and the contributions of modders in support.

Hehe. We're fulfilling sburke's prophecy from the above post.

[skogtroll]

Good game design...really? Do you really think it is a good decision to take the Hunt command and nerf it so that vehicles stop and don't move any further once they catch sight of any enemy troops, no matter how far away? I don't think so. Still, there must be a reason, and I would love to know what that reason was; unless it was "Oops, we messed up here, but it would be too much of a pain to correct our oversight now".

I agree with this words . I also know that I forget about one question. This only a mod to CM:Afghanistan(?)/SF. Are there any new options? This is WWII without AA guns, flame throwers, AI, normandy-looking buildings and so on. Sorry that I'm grumbling , but this was my favourite game series.

[HarryB]

Fair enough. The rightness or wrongness of their decisions of their decisions can be determined by the number of units they sold, the volume of posts on this forum and the contributions of modders in support.

Hehe. We're fulfilling sburke's prophecy from the above post.

In general, yes, specifically, no. I think that there is no question that CM:BN is the best game of its type out there. In fact, there really isn't another game like it out there; that doesn't mean that it doesn't have warts, and I think we can all agree on that. In my opinion, the way the Hunt command is set up currently is one of those warts.

When I make a complaint like this I am not trying to flame CM:BN. If I didn't care about the game I wouldn't be wasting my time checking the forum or making a post. The fact that I take the time to post on this forum shows that I care about the game. I am not a frequent poster on internet forums, in fact, there are only two games other than Combat Mission that I have ever bothered to make posts on, and the other two were actually mods that I found to be far superior to the original games.

So, just to be clear, I'm a big fan of CM:BN, but when I like something a lot I'm going to give it some 'tough love', because I want it to be the best that it can be .

[Lee_Vincent]

Seems to me the new Hunt command was re-worked to be a better fit with RT

[HarryB]

Seems to me the new Hunt command was re-worked to be a better fit with RT

If that is true I think that was an unfortunate decision. I play pretty much 100% WeGo because I only really enjoy playing against human opponents and PBEM is the way to go for that. I also like playing large battles and if I tried that in RT I wouldn't have a clue as to what is happening on most of the battlefield. I am currently playing the NorMons scenario, which I think is pretty fun btw, and I find that I am watching each turn 5-6 times from different angles because so much is going on.

[cool breeze]

My 2 cents.

I think they changed it to better fit the new system. Even in the scenario described in the first post the new behavior is better. The tanked stayed put to try to see and engage the enemy infantry instead of, as some of you suggest, continuing toward the enemy with reduced spotting ability and busy crewmen. The tank didn't just drive past the infantry exposing its back because the enemy was ducking. Old hunt worked in CMx1 because you usually wouldn't lose sight of an enemy until it was out of action. Its doesn't work anymore because spotting is more realistic. There are already commands that cause units to stop to fire but continue moving. Infantry even stops to fire while moving quick.