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So what you guys think?


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Those of you who have downloaded and played it, whats your take on it?

I played a few scenarios and i really think its done about as good as it can be done on this platform. While it's not even in the ball park as far as CM Normandy goes on a PC, it's got some beautiful graphics at the lowest levels, especially the trees. If you also look at the soldiers uniforms, they look mighty nice as well. Gameplay is not too bad and I absolutely LOVE the path finding lines that show you the exact route and I feel like CMBN really needs this as a toggled feature. Also the slider bar for replay is far superior to what we have in CMBN as well.

A few gripes I have though are that there are no unit bases. I rarely if ever use them in CMBN but find myself wishing they were included, especially during playback. Artillery needs more of a CM type interface with maybe a drag and draw triangle or box over the point target that is currently used.

Biggest gripe will be about the number of scenarios included. In 30 second intervals with 30 turns or less, it wont be long before people are done with them and moving on to the next game.

But I think overall for an iPad game that isnt Angry Birds, it's a 4 to 4.5 star game. Think all they need is someone to refuse to stop playing it on a plane for it to hit the mainstream.

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I like it. It's really different to CMBN ... but kinda not. I mean, it's familiar, but different. There's some neat innovations too - the slider (obviously), and the full game replay (!), plus the path finding (that was a big surprise). The scenarios are very nicely constructed and scaled for the interface. Good sized maps, a manageable number of units, and short! I don't really want to spend much more time than I did on one of these scens in one sitting.

It's pretty easy to learn, too - I watched the tute video yesterday, and was able to play tonight with no problems. Well, almost no problems :) There was one UI thing that tripped me up (cancelling an order) but I figured that out by blundering about some more. Oh, and the AI handed me my ass :P

Jolly good fun. I'm looking forward to getting into the rest of the included scenarios, and seeing what new scens the design team can create. I'll also have to convince my Significant Other that I need an iPad too now :D

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Well, I just bought it for my iPad3, not because I'll ever play it, but I wanted to support Battlefront for their continued development of CMBN and other excellent games.

The entertainment factor of their products for me over the years has been far more than what they charge for their individual products.

Thanks Battlefront .. :)

Regards,

Doug

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After 2 very quick half games to get the sense of the game, it looks great for the device it is on. As Sixxkiller mentioned, it feels enough like CM and that general sense of the game play is what I was looking for. Know what- CMBO/BB would also be great for the ipad.

Positives:

-CMBN on a tiny device

-The sound is great

-It looks surprisingly good close up

Needs work:

-Icons aren't shown during playback- I lose track of who is where- this is the biggest issue for me

-No bases, these would help with the above

-Landscape colors are too bright (no mods happening here!)

-AFV movement seems very fast

I'd agree- a 4.5 out of five for me. Fix the icons issue and it's a 5. Let us mod that grass, and I'll mod you an extra star on the app store to make it a six out of 5.

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So, I plunked down my $4.99 first thing this morning. I've bought every game/module of CM to this point. So, how could I pass this up?

As everybody has said, this is certainly not CMBN on the iPad but it is fun. As an iPad game, I give it high marks. It gives me a CM fix without needing to be at my computer. Given the amount that I travel for work, this is a nice bonus.

The terrain graphics look better on the iPad than on the PC. I'd love to know why but the building and hedgerow terrain seem more realistic. There are some very innovative UI features that I'd love to see brought to the PC. Top of the list is the ability to drag forward and backwards in time during turn replays.

Personally, I hope this is a huge commercial success for Battlefront. It's not the idea game platform but if it can fund more CM it will be good for all of us fans.

BTW, I have to admit that I laughed out loud at the tutorial. It does a good job of explaining the how the game works, but the commentary and the bleeped-out cussing was hysterical. I wonder how many complaints Battlefront is going to get on it.

Bob/Lt. Smash

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To be honest, I'm not liking it at all unfortunately. The biggest problem is there is no feedback during the playback phase. Unless you're zoomed waaaay in, you don't know where your guys are, where the enemy is, who is shooting at who, if a unit is pinned/suppressed/etc...there are just funny looking little sprites (are they tying their shoes?) floating across the terrain.

And the camera controls need mucho work also, which adds to the frustration as it's either bouncing, stuck or moving too far from the "inertia".

CMx1 with Retina graphics and this UI would have been a fantastic port to the iPad no question. This might also get there with some work, but I'd call it a beta release at best as it stands right now. I was just lamenting on TA about how great it would be to see CM on the iPad, but probably never would. Now that it's finally and actually here...meh.

And here's my post from Touch Arcade:

Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of this after a few turns playing the first scenario. Granted it's been a while since I played CM so I could be misremembering a few things but here's my quick and dirty list:

Pros:

Graphics are ok. Terrain, units and vehicles are nicely done when zoomed in.

Sound is good.

UI seems alright so far. Quite easy to issue and modify order strings.

The terrain model is very nice.

Cons:

- Camera controls have way too much inertia and bounce.

-There is zero, and I mean zero, feedback during the playback phase. No idea what a unit is shooting at, if its morale state changed, if its being targeted, just nothing. Kinda leaves you wondering just what is actually going on, which may be a design decision too (fog of war and all that). Oh, just noticed you get Penetration notices against armour (my tank just died-a-lot).

- No animations for vehicle running gear.

- Everything seems to float above the ground somewhat.

- No information whatsoever about enemy units. May also be a design decision with FoW in mind.

- No save system?

- Some commands missing? Button/Unbutton for example.

- No terrain/cover/concealment info that I've found. I'm guessing (hoping) it's WYSIWYG on a per soldier/vehicle basis.

No doubt this is a simplified CM. There doesn't seem to be any command delays, and I'm not sure if this is using relative or absolute spotting rules either. Hopefully BFC will pop over here to clarify a few things, and let us know what else we can expect from this.

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I just see money making over here. It's an embarassment because it's obvious that the launch of the game has been made (with great genius) to show a beautiful ''war finger'' to the old grogs... who made them.

I wish they made CMx1 with France, Poland and Balkans campaigns. I'll never get over it.

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Thanks for your feedback, Harv. It's going to take several more new iPads by Apple before we will be able to play a copy of CMBN in it. We're pushing the envelope with CMTouch as is (and will keep pushing with future updates).

You are listing quite a few important Pro's in your post for not having liked it "at all"... :)

Martin

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I just downloaded and played the Crossroads Scenario. As a long time amateur player of the beer and pretzel variety, I think this could be just the game to bring a new crop of players to the CM world.

It is also remarkable how far this game has come from its humble beginnings 12 (gulp) years ago.

Good:

* The camera and unit controls are pretty easy to master, although I had a dickens of a time trying to respot my artillery fire. I finally had to stop the unit and then start all over.

* The graphics are pretty impressive for an iPad. I would say they are nearly as good as the PC version and SO far above the original CMBO, it's tough to believe this is on an Ipad.

Bad:

* I got my ass totally whupped. Okay, that's not the games fault. ;) I didn't start my artillery fire soon enough and got run over by a wave of Panzers. On the other hand, I will be replaying that scenario many times, I suspect.

BEST

* Battlefront is BACK FOR THE MAC. or Apple, you know what I mean. I am very, very happy that CMSF and CMBN are available for the Mac, even if I am still playing my PC versions cuz I have an old laptop with the crappy x1600 video card and I am afraid to upgrade to Lion....for now. The commitment of the gang to bring these awesome games to OS X and now iOS portends a great future for Mac gaming. I hope to upgrade to a new iMac later this year and play these games on a HUGE screen with a state-of-the art graphics card in the Mac version....no more Boot Camp for me.

* The price for the iPad game was absolutely unbeatable. I will most definitely be purchasing endless scenario packs for $2.99 or less. The iTunes store is a pretty darn good business model and I wish the gang all the financial success they deserve for bringing this game to us.

OH, and nice April Fools Joke...I was really convinced Moon or someone was screwing with us big-time...then I was even more shocked that they pulled this off completely covertly with NO HINT that it was coming....the Osama Raid probably didn't have this good a cover story.

WELL DONE, Battlefront. Keep up the good work.

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Hey Moon, long time no see. :)

I thought I'd better toss a couple of Pros in there so it didn't look really bad, but sadly none of them actually make it a fun game to play. I may try another scenario or two, but without some significant changes it'll just be another inexpensive App Store "could've been" that'll disappear from my iPad in a few days.

As the old saying goes...expectation leads to disappointment, and I was hoping for/expecting CMx1 in all it's fantastic gameplay glory, and all I received was a neutered CMx2 something instead.

Ah well, I'm but one fish in a vast sea of customers.

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Thanks for your feedback, Harv. It's going to take several more new iPads by Apple before we will be able to play a copy of CMBN in it. We're pushing the envelope with CMTouch as is (and will keep pushing with future updates).Martin

So what's the roadmap for CM:T improvements? Harv listed several concerns - and there's a thread going on Touch Arcade and other pros & cons. I think we'd all be interested in learning what the future may hold.

Also, out of curiosity, the new iPad seems to have some reasonable horsepower in it. What is the limiting factor for a game like CM:T (and CMBN for that matter)?

Thanks!

--DotComCTO

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As the old saying goes...expectation leads to disappointment, and I was hoping for/expecting CMx1 in all it's fantastic gameplay glory, and all I received was a neutered CMx2 something instead.

That's probably the problem right there. Now if those expectations are realistic, compared to what else is out there, is another question :)

Martin

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So what's the roadmap for CM:T improvements? Harv listed several concerns - and there's a thread going on Touch Arcade and other pros & cons. I think we'd all be interested in learning what the future may hold.

Also, out of curiosity, the new iPad seems to have some reasonable horsepower in it. What is the limiting factor for a game like CM:T (and CMBN for that matter)?

Thanks!

--DotComCTO

I will let Clay respond to that as I don't know the technical details. What I do know is that 1.1 which is in the works will provide some performance improvements, some multiplayer changes. Maybe some other stuff, not sure. Clay should be posting more info about this later tonight or tomorrow.

The only firm roadmap we have is that, just like the desktop series, CMTouch will be expanded and improved over time. We're in this for the long haul, as usual.

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That's probably the problem right there. Now if those expectations are realistic, compared to what else is out there, is another question :)

Yeah, to chime in here too... if someone expected this game to cure cancer and get us to Mars by 2020, they would also be disappointed :D The fact is there is no way, and I mean NONE, that CMx1's level of detail could be on any current iPad. Probably not even iPad 8. Although the iPad is becoming a fantastic base for 3D type games, it is going to be a long while before such a tiny device can pack the power of a PC or laptop. Even one from 10 years ago.

Putting the technical limitations aside for a sec, there's the philosophical angle to look at. If we wanted to make an iPad wargame that only a wargamer could possibly love, we could do that. It still wouldn't look anything like CMx1 (not to mention CMx2), but certainly it could be "groggier". We didn't want to go that route. It would be like forcing a round peg into a square hole. Instead we went for a happy medium. Well, for some and not others, of course :D

Steve

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That's probably the problem right there. Now if those expectations are realistic, compared to what else is out there, is another question :)

Martin

Oh no you don't...the reason I haven't been here for five years is because of comparisons, so please don't start down that road already with CM:T.

Either it stands on its own with fun and engaging gameplay or it doesn't. No comparing to Battle Academy, Great Little War Game or anything else currently on or nearing the App Store. Make it good and it'll sell itself, no comparisons required.

Don't you just miss having an overopinionated Canuck around. :)

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Yeah, to chime in here too... if someone expected this game to cure cancer and get us to Mars by 2020, they would also be disappointed :D The fact is there is no way, and I mean NONE, that CMx1's level of detail could ever be on an iPad. Probably not even iPad 8. Although the iPad is becoming a fantastic base for 3D type games, it is going to be a long while before such a tiny device can pack the power of a PC or laptop. Even one from 10 years ago.

Putting the technical limitations aside for a sec, there's the philosophical angle to look at. If we wanted to make an iPad wargame that only a wargamer could possibly love, we could do that. It still wouldn't look anything like CMx1 (not to mention CMx2), but certainly it could be "groggier". We didn't want to go that route. It would be like forcing a round peg into a square hole. Instead we went for a happy medium. Well, for some and not others, of course :D

Steve

Hi Steve. :)

Waves

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Hi Harv (waves back!)

:D

The jury is still out on whether CM Touch has hit the right balance of elements. Early indications are definitely very positive, though. And of course it always comes down to the eye of the beholder. Wargaming is considered a "niche" because almost nobody likes 'em. Doesn't make those of us who do like them wrong in any way, of course. It just means that "success" is not determined by any one person's standards.

And of course there is the reality of technical limitations. Honestly, I was really surprised how much got into CM Touch. I was thinking iPad 1 and not iPad 2 :D

Steve

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Speaking as someone who most would probably consider fairly groggy, I'm not sure I'd often want to play an iPad game as complex as CM (either the original series or CMx2).

iPad and iPhone games are generally things I play fairly casually, either as time-wasters when I'm waiting for someone or something, or as a little break from some other (usually less enjoyable) activity. They're interlude entertainment -- I enjoy them very much, but I don't get very deeply involved in them.

In contrast to this, The PC versions CM are very intense and involved for me. I do not play CMBN casually. When I play CMBN, I PLAY CM. Nothing else intervenes. Same was true for CMBO, CMBB, CMAK, and CMSF.

There's a time and a place for both; I don't necessarily expect or want one to be exactly like the other, even if it were technically possible.

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Speaking as someone who most would probably consider fairly groggy, I'm not sure I'd often want to play an iPad game as complex as CM (either the original series or CMx2).

And this, gentlemen, was exactly our thinking behind CM Touch :D We already have PC games which are extremely involved and take a long time to play out. They also work on decent laptops. There's no reason, even if we could, to have the same experience on mobile devices as well.

I rarely go to the movies. When I do it is to experience something I can NOT experience at home on my puny TV. If the theaters around here started playing episodes of Castle or Psych, I wouldn't go. But Prometheus... I'm going to be there opening night with bells on.

Steve

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True. But you said yourself, you went in with expectations different than that.

Aye, you have me there, and I'll be the first to admit that definitely clouds my view to a certain extent. However, there is one other expectation which I also had but didn't state, and that was that it be fun/entertaining. And as with CMx2 when it first came out...I guess I just didn't/don't get it.

Give some player feedback during the replay, fix up the camera controls, get it looking better when zoomed out a bit and it'll go a long way to adding some entertainment value. Right now it might be exactly what you had envisioned, but for me it's just too sterile and lacks...I dunno...personality?

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However, there is one other expectation which I also had but didn't state, and that was that it be fun/entertaining.

"Fun" is a very, very personal evaluation process which is impossible to quantify. But yup, you know it when you experience it. And if you didn't experience it, then it's likely not a game for you. Just as CMx2 apparently isn't. No harm, no foul. There's just no way we can make a game that appeals spot on to every single person in the world equally.

Just remember that the vast majority of gamers out there think wargames OF ANY TYPE are about as fun as having their eyes painted over with lead paint and then being forced to watch it peel off for 50 years. Doesn't make them any more right or wrong as you. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

This isn't to say that CM Touch is perfect and therefore will never evolve. Quite the contrary. Look at our track record... CMBO had it's problems and rough edges so we spent 2 years improving it to make CMBB. We spent 3 years improving CM:SF when we made CM:BN. If the support for CM Touch is there, improvements are a sure thing. Early indications are the support is very much there.

And for the record, the doomsayers in this neck of the woods don't have a very good track record of being right. If they were, we would have been out of business 6 years ago instead of being twice the size we ever were.

Steve

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And this, gentlemen, was exactly our thinking behind CM Touch :D We already have PC games which are extremely involved and take a long time to play out. They also work on decent laptops. There's no reason, even if we could, to have the same experience on mobile devices as well.

I rarely go to the movies. When I do it is to experience something I can NOT experience at home on my puny TV. If the theaters around here started playing episodes of Castle or Psych, I wouldn't go. But Prometheus... I'm going to be there opening night with bells on.

Steve

I think that's a very dangerous mindset to have with regards to the App Store (or any market). There is every reason, if you can, to have the best experience on every device.

The App Store is probably one of, if not the, fastest growing and most innovative sectors of the gaming market, so why limit yourselves just because of your perception of what it is? There are full bore MMO, RTS, TBS, RPG, FPS and probably every other three letter acronym on there now, with more and greater things just around the corner. Sure Angry Birds catches all the attention, but that doesn't mean people want or expect every game to be "dumbed down" or casual. In fact you'd be amazed at the number of people (me included) who don't even own/use traditional computers any more since the sophistication of App Store games has increased exponentially over the last couple of years and made the iPad into a serious gaming device for "serious" games.

Don't sell yourselves short just because of what you think the App Store market is. If you can make it work, don't hold back!

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