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A poignant shot here; 2 IJA squads pinned and outflanked in a muddy depression and then systematically massacred by grenades. It took 20 minutes and a dozen US casualties out of a platoon to achieve this bloody victory; all the US units were Rattled or Broken by the end of the fight and ammo was gone.

PTOMassacre.jpg

Regrettably, the TacAI doesn't provoke Fanatic units in such a hopeless position into a last ditch Banzai charge; they just slug it out and die in place.

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The landscapes are really looking unique. Great job with making the banana leaves. If I had CW, I would definitely check it out. I did download the voices to check them out, and I thought that was clever using the voices from war movies for the IJA. I wouldn’t mind seeing a war movie voice mod for USA in CMBN. Lot’s of great movies to draw from.

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LongLeftFlank,

Here's my contribution to the PTO war effort--Japanese infantry weapons & artillery (clickable thumbnails)

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJA/HB/HB-9.html

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/ww2-japanese-guns.asp (clicking pic gets a complete article on the weapon)

Oh, and here's your Sten thingy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_100_submachine_gun

If you can find it, the Military Channel had a show in which the various Japanese infantry weapons were shown up close and live fired, to include the type 100 SMG.

You'll love this, and all the goodies in the sidebar!

Regards,

John Kettler

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The PTO terrain mod hasn't really changed much since v1. I swapped in the taro plant for the other broadleaf but that shouldn't matter much. I am still hemming and hawing over my high Bocage mod-- still worried that it misleads players into thinking they can see or move through the tiles when they can't. Plus the base embankment looks really ugly.

I'm also still hoping to do something with the haystack object and make the ocean horizon water tile blend in a little better. That stuff all takes time as I'm not a photoshop wiz.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Still trying to do something interesting with the haystack doodad. After several unsuccessful attempts to create a bushy Sago palm, I tried to render a "tropical" haystack of cut cane grass. Unfortunately, I think it's a Fail; the original object isn't too pretty either though.

Cane_Stacks.jpg

The Type 4 crops don't make very convincing cane grass either.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've got to confess, as I playtest platoon-sized actions on my PTO test map, I am starting to understand the extreme hatred the two sides felt for each other in that conflict.

Unlike Normandy, the fight isn't ultimately won by ranging in heavy weapons; the terrain simply doesn't allow that. You can't shoot the enemy out of his holes at range. There is just one way to kill him -- slowly and systematically, with small arms and grenades at close range.

My GIs hit the beach in thinly armoured vehicles (I'm using Universal Carriers for Alligators, although I'm also playing with halftracks) and all hell breaks loose as they come under heavy fire; vehicles bog, stop, retreat, dumping men out into open spaces.

5 minutes in, virtually every fire team has taken a casualty and is Rattled or Shaken. All semblance of unit order is lost; groups of 3-4 GIs crawl forward on their bellies into the jungle, seeking vantage points to fire into the "Jap" positions; the incoming doesn't seem to let up. They just don't seem to stop shooting until they're killed.

15 minutes in, finally! enough rifles and -- critically! -- BARs are on target that the fire superiority balance tips in my favour. But sniper and Nambu rounds keep snapping in, friendly casualties continue to mount, and occasionally a fire team simply breaks and bugs out. However, a few guys have now managed to crawl into grenade range of the holes and the retributive massacre now begins. I find myself taking a grim satisfaction at killing every last one of those f&&kers. I wiped out the 35 Japanese defenders at a cost of 5 KIA and 15WIA.

btw, I'm not huge proponent of adding blood and gore to CM, but whenever we do get flamethrowers, I feel it's going to have to have a slightly nastier impact; perhaps the victims simply roll over and turn black (dead, of course).

Well, I wanted to be in the boots of the guys on the beach. Can't wait to try this out on Makin, which is a lot flatter and more densely vegetated.

PTOMassacre2.jpg

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That, sir, is why I play only this amazing game - as a 3d augment to reading history.

Some of the brutal hedgerow and urban fighting in Europe resulted in a similar no quarter mentality (why don't those bastards give up?). With lasting ill feeling. (Witness that Red Devil vet kicking the sh*t out of some SS guys in 1985 mentioned in the Arnhem thread). But once you add the racism factor, plus the pestilential and alien combat environment, you can definitely see why most PTO combat vets openly confess hatred today and will not be reconciled with their former enemies. Sad -- the Japanese people, especially servicemen, paid a heavy price for their behaviour -- but understandable. Some wounds run too deep.

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Well, I, among many I'm sure, eagerly anticipate future developments in this area. I'm hoping BF will eventually get around to the PTO, but it's gonna be awhile, after the eastern front, africa etc etc.

I wish the best to all who are working on this project and thank you

for your efforts.

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Well with the exceptions of (1) flamethrowers (2) treetop sniper platforms (3) some kind of "banzai charge" TacAI trigger in Fanatic units (4) caves, all the tools are already there.

Even amphib assaults can be reasonably simulated right now; you just need shallow Ford "channels" for the vehicles to follow inshore.

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That, sir, is why I play only this amazing game - as a 3d augment to reading history.

Some of the brutal hedgerow and urban fighting in Europe resulted in a similar no quarter mentality (why don't those bastards give up?). With lasting ill feeling. (Witness that Red Devil vet kicking the sh*t out of some SS guys in 1985 mentioned in the Arnhem thread). But once you add the racism factor, plus the pestilential and alien combat environment, you can definitely see why most PTO combat vets openly confess hatred today and will not be reconciled with their former enemies. Sad -- the Japanese people, especially servicemen, paid a heavy price for their behaviour -- but understandable. Some wounds run too deep.

Couldn't agree more. Same thing for me.

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  • 1 month later...

Been looking for an excuse to bump this thread. Broadsword56 asked me a question offline, and here is my response: prickly pear. Once I release my Makin scenario (this month I hope), I will also upload a comprehensive .brz PTO modpack for players to drop in the Z folder with all my terrain mods, including "alternative" bush types like this one. I am actually tempted to make this the Bush 3 © default.

Bush2-PricklyPear.jpg

P.S. Is CoonDog still active out there? The existing Japanese army uniform mods are reasonably fit for use, and the absence of webgear is no problem (they're usually defending) but were designed to fit the Commonwealth infantry uniform wireframe, so they no longer fit the better looking German LW uniform wireframe precisely, especially lapels and belts. Uniform/people modding has always been well outside my competency.

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LongLeftFlank,

If you were, at some point, to use the Italians, or maybe just their weaponry, for a CMFI PTO mod, then you could, if you wanted to, do the Matanikau River battle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actions_along_the_Matanikau

This was the combat debut for the M1, the U.S. had MGs, 37mm antitank guns spewing canister and M3 Stuarts. All the requisite U.S. gear is there, and the Japanese had a 6.5 mm rifle, as did the Italians. The LMGs are similar, the Italians had some artillery which could reasonably substitute for the Japanese kit, and so forth. Of course, if we had illumination rounds in the game, that would help, for this was a night battle.

Did the prickly pear cactus grow on Makin, or did I miss something in the discussion? I am definitely no PTO horticulture grog.

Regards,

John Kettler

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John, I have mooooooore than enough on my plate right now, but you go ahead and give it a shot if you're so inclined.

If we had flamethrowers, I'd tackle Betio (Tarawa) for a Galvanic back-to-back, but we don't -- hopefully some USMC worshipper will give it a shot. I am personally tempted by the well-documented Buna operation, which features some of the worst terrain of WWII -- pestilential mangrove swamps (I'm a maps guy, and what ALL my scenarios have in common other than painstaking historical research, is an otherwise dominant attacker having to slog through brutal terrain). Buna also isn't flamethrower-driven and you have Aussies in the mix for the delectation of my Commonwealth brethren. But that will depend on the reception I get for my Makin scenario. I do like my work to be enjoyed by others by myself.

More likely though, I will return to the brutal bocage to build at least a few CMBN battles on my gigantic La Meauffe-Le Carillon map; one (Tiny Recon) has been sitting on the shelf 99% ready to go for 6 months and the other (Company Village Assault) is about half finished. I look forward to the upgrade to see what it does for playability of large CMBN maps.

For that reason, I have also decided against trying to do PTO using CMFI as the base game. Italian forces are highly suitable in certain respects, but the huge unsplittable "half squads" isn't one of them; regardless of TO&E or doctrine, Japanese forces largely fought in practice as isolated teams in small bunkers and spider holes. But most important, only a subset of players own CMFI -- I'm not among them -- and I want all CM2WWII players to be able to play PTO if they want (well, they've got to buy the CW module of course!).

P.S. No, Broadsword56 is trying to expand the horizons of CMFI to prickly-pear abundant Tunisia and this, together with palm trees, was my contribution. Took me all of 20 minutes. Although cacti are/were by no means unknown in the drier parts of Pacific islands, where they're used as an organic fence to keep cattle out of gardens; former Spanish colony the Philippines, for example, and I think also Bougainville, anywhere cattle were raised.

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LongLeftFlank,

Considering I can barely play the game, and never built a CMx1 scenario, let alone a mod of any sort, not to mention have no skills with any of the required programs and am not an artist, I'm afraid I must decline your suggestion.

Am very grateful there ARE people who can do the fantastic things you do. I can write scenarios, having done it for numerous wargame battles, professionally in military aerospace, and, most recently, in Chaos Games' "Steel Typhoon," which depicts the second half of the naval war in the Pacific for naval war in minature. I worked on that with my brother, Ed.

The bocage IS brutal, and well do I know it. Or, you could ask what's left of 18 Platoon. Probably a good thing the British practiced LOB (Left Out of Battle), since it provides some basis for rebuilding a platoon I got shot to pieces.

The Italian squad limitations were why I suggested the possibility of just using their weapons, rather than the line infantry units per se. Was also thinking their armor was a pretty good substitute for the Japanese AFVs, making all sorts of interesting possibilities. Of course, both sides have 47mm antitank guns. I've actually seen the Japanese 47mm, at Ft.MacArthur, San Pedro, California.

Before I close, I should tell you that I loved your Japanese player briefing.

Regards,

John Kettler

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I haven't heard from CoonDog in some time, so while uniforms modding is not at all my core competency, I took a swing at retailoring a couple of his IJA mods -- which were designed to fit the British infantry wireframe (short tunic) -- to fit the more Japanese looking cut of the German LW uniforms. I also added a rikusentai lapel badge. The results are far from perfect but are fit for use. If anyone else wants to give this a shot, let me know.

Rikusentai.jpg

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I haven't heard from CoonDog in some time, so while uniforms modding is not at all my core competency, I took a swing at retailoring a couple of his IJA mods -- which were designed to fit the British infantry wireframe (short tunic) -- to fit the more Japanese looking cut of the German LW uniforms. I also added a rikusentai lapel badge. The results are far from perfect but are fit for use. If anyone else wants to give this a shot, let me know.

Rikusentai.jpg

Do you realize what you are doing to me LLF? The Gamers had two Guadalcanal based games. I have been trying to put something together for the MG game, but these two keep whispering over my shoulder (he's got the game modded- if you build it they will play...)

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Not quite following you. The Gamers?

Another company, their Screaming Eagles game is what I am working on for an Campaign OP layer variant. Their scale is platoon units and usually a regiment or two in a battle which I think gives lots of potential. Anyway the point is I went from one Op layer game I am tinkering with for when the MG module is released to 2 more for your mods. LOL too much..... And what's worse, they are both on vassal..

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So here's a question for whoever's listening. I am putting together a comprehensive "PTO mod pack" to release together with my Makin scenario, and I have two different choices as to how to represent the dense jungle (High Bocage, though crazy-quilt instead of "walls", with plentiful "gaps") that covers the interior of the island.

It appears that some special rules apply to the bocage .bmp files, because all my attempts to "thin out" the vegetation on the lower storey (boccage.bmp) without removing it altogether have failed. I've tried both Photoshop and GIMP, but these particular models seem to ignore all my attempts at alpha channeling. Has anyone else had better luck?

Choice 1 is to show it "as it is": I added some banana leaves to the lower storey and left the upper storey (boccage2.bmp, which is also Hedge) using the CMBN default.

Advantage: WYSIWYG. Drawback: total pain in the ass to navigate, Target, etc. There's no toggle for Bocage the way there is for trees.

Dense_jungle2.jpg

Choice 2 is to make the lower storey invisible: i.e. only "sticks" appear except in odd cases, like on either side of "gaps". Sometimes you get "all sticks" like you see here in the foreground; sometimes you get a little shrub that actually looks quite tropical without any further modding (upper left of screenie).

Advantage: a hell of a lot easier to see where your guys are. Drawback: visually appears that they have a LOT better LOS than they actually do; for example, that mortar team in the background actually can't see through the second hedgerow.

Dense_jungle3.jpg

Oh yeah, my question is: I can release both these mods with my PTO pack, but which one should be the default? My inclination right now is option 2: Makin is a battalion scale attack and is going to be chaotic enough to manage as it is. On the other hand, having that extra "Fog of War" is extra authentic given the theatre.

My ideal solution would be for those "sticks" to have a little bit of foliage on them, but to be generally see-through. I have a nice bamboo leaf mod all done, but alas, as I said before it's all or nothing, it seems, and my alpha channeling attempts have been all for naught.

BTW: this is a small quicker-loading PTO test map I use, not my Makin map; there are no hills that size on the latter.

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Wow, the Sniper strikes again. 1 star.

I'm really curious: who the hell are you, dude, and why do you dislike this undertaking so much? Do you think the quality is bad? You can PM me if you like; I won't share publicly.

Do you think we're all a bunch of racist rednecks who are getting our jollies killing Asiatics or something?

Nothing could be further from the truth, for me anyway. Sure, I despise the Tojo regime almost as much as I do the (white) Nazis, but I am also really interested in accurately recreating how the Japanese army and SNLF prosecuted the war after 1943, even though their overall cause was hopeless owing to US industrial might and strategic warfare (e.g. subs).

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Wow, the Sniper strikes again. 1 star.

I'm really curious: who the hell are you, dude, and why do you dislike this undertaking so much? Do you think the quality is bad? You can PM me if you like; I won't share publicly.

Do you think we're all a bunch of racist rednecks who are getting our jollies killing Asiatics or something?

Nothing could be further from the truth, for me anyway. Sure, I despise the Tojo regime almost as much as I do the (white) Nazis, but I am also really interested in accurately recreating how the Japanese army and SNLF prosecuted the war after 1943, even though their overall cause was hopeless owing to US industrial might and strategic warfare (e.g. subs).

? Not sure what that was about, I must have missed something.

Wtf is the difference between gaming the european scene and gaming the pacific? Meh, somebody has an issue and i don't think it is you LLF.

To be honest I hate the Tojo regime more. Japanese society back then was driven by a social dynamic that was in many ways still feudal. Whereas Hitler went out and got the German vote to take power and the backing of the nation to make war, the generals in Japan didn't give a flying f**k what your average Japanese thought. They had a term for new recruits that was essentially the postage cost for the draft letter.

This also probably why I have a more gut wrenching reaction about the bombing campaign in Japan vs Germany. There is just no way I accept that the overall German population didn't know what was going on with the camps.

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