Crender Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm disappointed at the effort BFC have put into this. The quality isn't there and yet more new bugs are in. I think this is my last purchase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 He's kinda right, still, the module contains a whole bunch of new scenarios and the map quality has increased compared to the base game by a wide margin. Also it's nice to have the new formations, even if their uniforms suck or are incorrect Also, the number of new vehicles is substantial, especially considering the relatively short time in which it was developed by a small team. Even if there are quite a few things that bug me I'm still considering to buy Market Garden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 akd, I see what is going on with the Waffen SS pioneer sections now: they're wearing the assault gun uniform textures, which of course have a mix of officer ranks on them. I assume they should be wearing the standard infantry camo uniform instead? We do not have specific textures for specific ranks. That's something we want to work into the game in the future, but honestly... it's a really low priority because it is a tiny visual detail only. But we are working towards more flexibility with uniforms in general, so this is being worked into the plan. Armored Pioneers wear the Assault Gun crew uniforms. This is technically correct because they were specifically authorized to wear such uniforms by the High Command. However, due to uniform shortages this wasn't always true. We don't have the sort of flexibility we need to make this a bit more varied. See previous comment. All other forms of Pioneers should be wearing standard infantry uniforms. I can live with a bit of blurred texture mapping on a soldiers uniform - but heavens above - the Wespe and Lynx look really crude!! No comments from Battlefront yet either...... hopefully they're really busy updating these awful models for a patch. We're really busy, yes, but with bigger things than the details of a couple of models. Though we are paying attention. Even to people like this... I was seriously disappointed with this module. I will not be buying another one. $35 is just a rip off! Reskinned german infantry, and reskinned with sucky textures. Hmm... are you aware of the Commonwealth Forces in the Module? We figured the "Commonwealth Forces" title kinda gave it away, but maybe you've still not figured that out? Waffen-SS is just the regular flippin' WH infantryman, but with low-res erbsenmuster texture. BFC said that smocks could/would be done, but hey, why increase the work load and quality? They were done, but due to code limitations we couldn't work them in. Yet. We have to do a major recoding of how Soldiers and their models/textures are assigned. The alternative was to have the average unit contain a mix of M43, Smocks, and M-44 camouflage (Peas-44) uniforms. Which is completely wrong, so we didn't go that route. I will not recommend this heinously overpriced piece of DLC to anyone (maybe if it was $5). You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'm entitled to mine. The difference is I'm not going to pollute the Forum with mine. We welcome well reasoned criticism that is presented in way that indicates the person has some sense of perspective. The rest is discarded as a waste of time. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We do not have specific textures for specific ranks. That's something we want to work into the game in the future They were done, but due to code limitations we couldn't work them in. Yet. We have to do a major recoding of how Soldiers and their models/textures are assigned. The alternative was to have the average unit contain a mix of M43, Smocks, and M-44 camouflage (Peas-44) uniforms. Which is completely wrong, so we didn't go that route. Wow, my eyes just got wet So, does this mean modding a smock in at least as a texture (on a wrong 3D model) is in vain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 So, now eye candy is important? BFC should just give us green 3D boxes for the allies, and grey 3D boxes for the axis. People would still pay $60 for it. I was seriously disappointed with this module. I will not be buying another one. $35 is just a rip off! Reskinned german infantry, and reskinned with sucky textures. Waffen-SS is just the regular flippin' WH infantryman, but with low-res erbsenmuster texture. BFC said that smocks could/would be done, but hey, why increase the work load and quality?New german tanks look like crap. WTF? Are you for or against? That was a bi-polar moment, man. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The poster dismisses players who obsess over graphics while demanding better graphics. Priceless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think he was going for sarcasm there, but it got lost crossing the language barrier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think he was going for sarcasm there, but it got lost crossing the language barrier. Well that's the charitable explanation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think he was going for sarcasm there, but it got lost crossing the language barrier. Good sarcasm is an art. Unfortunately most people deliver it in rants that lose the fine mix of truly wonderful verbal play for a really good smackdown. He should spend more time on the PENG thread. And then ending on a note like this makes it really go flat. but this one just filled the glass 2-girls-1-cup style. WTF does that mean? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I guess the camo smocks will be available for Market Garden, given a British para with ape tail untied is wearing something quite similar to a German smock. I do find BF a little disengenious, as regards the models. Before CMBN they boasted about screen shots showing intricate exteriors/interiors, and how it was evidence of their care and attention to detail, now criticism of sub-standard models is dismissed as something relatively unimportant. Which is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 It's a famous German video involving nastiness in a cup...if I remember correctly. And NO I've never seen it...only heard about it. It's too disgusting to even think about. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think he was going for sarcasm there, but it got lost crossing the language barrier. THAT was funny! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Everyone's talking about the KT but nobody mentions the Cromwell, White Scout Car, the Firefly, the 6 pounder gun, the uniforms, etc ,etc. Its like there's a pretty girl with a birthmark in front of you and all you're able to focus on is the birthmark. The module isn't just the KT. In the grand scheme of things the KT is practically superfulous to the module. You'll use it in 3-4 QB, get bored with it and move on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 We're really busy, yes, but with bigger things than the details of a couple of models. Steve That is such a tease. Not even a hint? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Its like there's 2 pretty girls in a cup with a birthmark in front of you and all you're able to focus on is the birthmark. Fixed that for ya and no I am not going searching for that video Mord despite being in Germany for the next few weeks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 So, does this mean modding a smock in at least as a texture (on a wrong 3D model) is in vain? You can do it, but it's going to look like crud. And you'll have the same lack of control over where the texture winds up as we faced as the developers. To put the problem in a nutshell for you guys... Each Soldier is assigned a Model category (Soldier, Tank Crew, etc), which in turn references a specific Model. The Model in turn references a single Texture. By adding more Textures with a slightly different name you can get randomly used variations for that particular Model. Works fine. Internally we can hardcode a particular Model category to randomly select between different Models. For example, we have some Germans with jack boots and some with ankle boots, some LW Infantry have wool uniforms and some have camouflage jackets. These are all different Models, which of course have their own Textures. I bolded "randomly" because that's the problem. There's no coding to give specific instructions that dynamically determines if Unit A should have a particular mix of Models, while Unit B should have a different mix of Models. To put it into real life terms: 12th SS pretty thoroughly had Peas-44 camouflage uniforms, while 2nd SS pretty thoroughly had mixes of Wool and Smocks. When you go into the Editor and purchase a Waffen SS Panzergrenadier unit... which set of uniforms should it use? Without being able to make a designation the system is forced into going with a single choice. Conceptually this all sounds quite simple. And it is. But it's quite complicated on the coding side of things. We had hoped to get this into CM:BN, but there wasn't time. We then hoped to get it into Commonwealth, but we still didn't have time. It's always this way. If we held up a release for every requested/sensible feature we'd still be 10 years away from CM:BN. All I can say is we do understand that uniforms are an important aesthetic aspect of the game and therefore we will get it in sooner rather than later. Well that's the charitable explanation. That's the way I figured it too. Clearly a rant and by someone speaking English as a second language. If you view his post as a rant that allows one to smooth out the logical errors. I have to do that even with rants by native English speakers, so I'm used to it. Let's face it... rant's generally aren't good examples of well balanced logic and counter arguments Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 That is such a tease. Not even a hint? Sure... it's big and you'll probably like it Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 My money's on it being Bagration and I will like it, but I hope it won't stop improvements from being eventually made to CM:BN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Except they've already said that the Ardennes Offensive is the next game. And they still have the Market Garden module and maybe another one after that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRMC1879 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I dont get the freaking moaners in this thread - just dont get them. Interiors of tanks - so what - who even looks at them - to be honest I dont know why BF even bothers with them. Half the stuff you are moaning about I dont even notice. Jeez do you ever actually play the game ? I have seen the models people seem to be complaining about and whilst they do look a bit less detailed again I hardly see it is something to be worried about - after all - any proper player of the game isnt playing with a single original skin BF did for the base game as they have likely loaded up aris' mod in any case - and even as is they are hardly CM1 throwbacks. As for the module not being worth the measly 20 quid I paid for it - personally - I sit here amazed that I get so much for so little. This game is a dream for me - there isnt another game that comes close to giving me what this one does and not another game that I return to or spend as much time with as this one. So BF please ignore the petty - OMG he has got the wrong lapel badge freak outs and add things which are important to the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You can do it, but it's going to look like crud. And you'll have the same lack of control over where the texture winds up as we faced as the developers. Well, I have done it, and it looks ok kinda, despite being to short and having incorrect sleeves. Problem is, camo patterns don't look really good. The pea dot pattern is an exception due to the small size of the individual colour elements. But with bigger patterns you get the problem of textures being stretched, twisted, blurred and what not. Also the texture edges don't indicate how the the 2D texture gets wrapped around the 3D model. But this is a general problem with all soldier models ingame. I have also noted that for the m43 tunic model the egdes of the collar don't match. So the texture collar is bigger than the 3D model collar and is "painted" over the tunic itself. I don't know a whole lot about 2D/3D art, but it seems a little bit like there was a little too less coordination between your 2D and your 3D artists. Could be wrong though. Anyways, I like that you guys have thought about this very thoroughly and were not like "ah lets just retexture the Wehrmacht guys, that'll do it". How about a selectable customization in the Editor? So for SS-PzGr-Bn you could select their uniform with each squad or maybe platoon given the same uniform. I'd argue you on the composition of 12th SS, btw. I don't have any official documents that say X M42 smocks and Y pea dot tunics were delivered to the division, but I made a crude count on all pictures I could find of 12SS in the Normandy timeframe (I have the divisional history and a pictoral history). Smocks were predominantely shown in these, about 2:1 to pea dot '44 tunics. Last came the one-piece-overalls in Italian camo. BTW, are you aware that the waffenss-gear texture is unused in the module? It is there, it looks beautiful, but it doesn't get applied 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Except they've already said that the Ardennes Offensive is the next game. And they still have the Market Garden module and maybe another one after that. I know but I'm still betting on Bagration done mostly by a Russian team with basically a CMBN 1.10 engine. It'll take us by surprise just like CM:Afghanistan did except with a much bigger interest base. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 "They were done, but due to code limitations we couldn't work them in. Yet. We have to do a major recoding of how Soldiers and their models/textures are assigned. The alternative was to have the average unit contain a mix of M43, Smocks, and M-44 camouflage (Peas-44) uniforms. Which is completely wrong, so we didn't go that route." Thank you soo much for not doing that.... also the 12th SS wore Italian smocks, and full jumpsuits, but even this was rare. I just also want to say thanks for creating games like you have for all of us die hard WWII historians. Keep up the good work, we have faith in your team to work out all the trivial little bugs, and keep producing fine quality work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 after all - any proper player of the game isnt playing with a single original skin BF did for the base game as they have likely loaded up aris' mod in any case - and even as is they are hardly CM1 throwbacks. I actually prefer most of the stock vehicle texture to mods, since I'm not a fan of the dirtied-up look most mods have. Outside of the few mentioned in this thread BFC has done an outstanding job on the vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRMC1879 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I actually prefer most of the stock vehicle texture to mods, since I'm not a fan of the dirtied-up look most mods have. Outside of the few mentioned in this thread BFC has done an outstanding job on the vehicles. Well - to qualify what I said - a lot of players have it loaded. To be honest - personally I like the mods but they (apart from some of the sound mods) are never really game changers for me. Honestly - as you say, the originals were outstanding in any case. As for the "Big thing" I reckon it is market garden - its been secretly worked on while CW was running and it will be released tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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