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The Japanese were up for it, and they got hit twice.

Hmm...The Japanese surrendered because of it, they hesitated after the first one but the second convinced them.

Also the Japanese had a totally different mentality to any of the American\European countries.

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...and what about a uboat type XXI, sent on a "secret" mission?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_XXI_submarine

Off course it would have been a suicide mission. The crew would be unaware of their secret mission and the attached NSFO (Nazi version of russian commissar) would push the trigger once the target is reached.

How were they gonna get it into the sub? It's a might bit bigger than a torpedo and exploding underwater wouldn't quite have the same impact. You also gotta hope you actually make it to target.

If we are gonna kill time with what ifs, can we pick one that doesn't require 50 thousand conditions for it to come true? How about the US gets wind of Pearl Harbor and lays a big ass ambush ala Midway? Or Stalin doesn't try to reorganize Russian defenses forward just prior to Barbarossa? Or the Allies sit up and take notice of hints of a push through the Ardennes in 1940 and prepare a nice welcoming party.

I know we all would in our secret gaming hearts never want the war to have ended sooner - What no Normandy? No CMBN?!! The what ifs that are most likely to have affected the war and not have a ton of preconditions to work usually (in my addled mind anyway) mean the war is shortened and Germany is even worse off.

How about Chamberlain grows a pair and the allies declare war earlier. Or the UK and France sieze the moment and attack Germany during the invasion of Poland and the Russians jump in as well.

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If Germany had and used a nuke I suspect the US would have stood back, fielded their own weapon, then systematically destroyed each and every German political center. Then after the gvernment was literally obliterated they would have continued to advance. Thier original intent had been to use the bomb on Germany but the Russians captured Berlin and the 3rd reich fell first.

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I'd imagine even if Germany hadn't collapsed before the bombs where ready the USA would have used them on Japan first. Lets face it they where far more of a threat to amercian lives at that time in the War than Germany. Germany was already on it's knees. There was a long and bloody struggle still left in the Far East.

How Europe would have reacted to Nuclear Fallout would I'm sure have ended up with alot of questions and blame on the USA.

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Ok, one 'what if' that has just one precondition: good weather in Munich on the 8th of November 1939.

This guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_Elser) had succeeded and Hitler would have died on that day.

France 1940 wouldn't have happened for sure. Would France attack Germany? Would England? Would Russia sooner or later? WWIII without nukes? Or sudden outbreak of common sense?

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How about Chamberlain grows a pair and the allies declare war earlier.

Best suggestion so far. And the best time to do it would have been in 1936 when Hitler moved to remilitarize the Rhineland. All he had available was a handful of battalions that were little more than armed police. France at that time had the largest army in Western Europe. The provisions of the Versailles Treaty allowed for them to reoccupy the Rhineland if Germany violated any part of the treaty, so the legal foundation was already there. That is what the German High Command expected to happen and there were already plans to arrest Hitler if it came about that way. That would have ended the whole mess right then and there, but the Allies did nothing and Hitler came off looking like a god-sent hero.

Michael

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If you dismiss any 'what if' questions because it didn't happen then this discussion is unfortunatly not for you.

The idea that Germany could have had the bomb is not very far fetched. I don't want to sound like Steiner here, but the top notch physicists of that time were german. And AFAIK the uranium for the first russian bombs was mined in Saxony. So Germany had the people and the resources to build it. But it was not a first priority since noone in Germany (luckily) saw the potential.

The one who saw emigrated and wrote a letter to the US president...

Germany had plenty of top-notch quantum physists until they forced them to Emmigrate. Even Heisenberg (the last topnotch physist left in Germany) had to be rescued from the Nazis by the intervention of Himmler's mother.

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IIRC the US only had two nuke bombs at that time, BIG BOY and FAT BOY. Both were experimental - being firsts. Not sure how long it would have taken to build more.

They had 3. One was used to test the Fatboy...I mean Fat Man.... method. I think production was running at about enough plutonium for a bomb every other month in 1945-46.

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Oh dear. Well, like I said, once in a while one slips by me. I don't know how that one happened. My apologies, you deserve full credit for the quote.

:o

Michael

Not necessary, just killing time here hoping the module comes out soon enough that I can at least load it before hitting the road. Time for a refill of the coffee, that will kill another few minutes.

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Best suggestion so far. And the best time to do it would have been in 1936 when Hitler moved to remilitarize the Rhineland. All he had available was a handful of battalions that were little more than armed police. France at that time had the largest army in Western Europe. The provisions of the Versailles Treaty allowed for them to reoccupy the Rhineland if Germany violated any part of the treaty, so the legal foundation was already there. That is what the German High Command expected to happen and there were already plans to arrest Hitler if it came about that way. That would have ended the whole mess right then and there, but the Allies did nothing and Hitler came off looking like a god-sent hero.

Michael

My personal favorite (and not so far-fetched) is that the Papal Coup set up by Pope Pius XII and his international spy network comes through in early 1941 as planned and Hitler and co goes to Argentina on fat pensions and the Papacy stops the war in early 1941. Very embarassing for everyone.

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I'd imagine even if Germany hadn't collapsed before the bombs where ready the USA would have used them on Japan first.

No.

There was this policy, called 'Germany First.' The US was down with that.

How Europe would have reacted to Nuclear Fallout would I'm sure have ended up with a lot of questions and blame on the USA.

Anachronistic reasoning at its finest.

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How about Chamberlain grows a pair and the allies declare war earlier. Or the UK and France sieze the moment and attack Germany during the invasion of Poland and the Russians jump in as well.

I know little of UK politics in the 1930s, but I am wondering if there was perhaps very little public support for attacking Germany in 1936, and so was not a realistic option for Chamberlain, who after all did not have dictatorial powers.

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FWW: I remember reading that Gemany was only at the point of making a nuclear reactor during the war. The state of the reactor was such that if they had attempted to fire it up, they would have created the first nuclear bomb - incinerating everyone present at the start up.

The Russians on the other hand, assembled their nuclear weapons by hand ... workers were issued paper clothing, and cleaned out the putonium chutes with rubber gloves and shovels ... the project manager's office was directly above the plutonium waste steel pipe ... all who survived were asked if they would do it again knowning what they later learned and all answered yes ...

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