Paper Tiger Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have started work on a third Red v Red campaign. The campaign, which is tentatively called 'Retribution', will have about 6 missions, all of which use maps that I created for the NATO series of campaigns. The idea of the campaign will be simple: The player will take the part of Government forces attempting to put down Free Syria Army rebels in three locations in Syria. You will have one group of core units that will appear in each mission of the campaign: two companies of a Syrian Airborne Battalion. They will act as a Fire Brigade, assisting local forces with suppressing the rebel forces in As Hasakah, Allepo, and Hama. Almost all of the action will take place in built up areas and as a result, unit density will likely be very high in these missions, especially the player-controlled forces. The player will need to have both the MARINES and NATO modules to play this campaign as it features the Syrian Airborne and RED airpower as well as the Shilka and other improvements to the UNCON OB There may even be a platoon of T-90s but we'll see how that pans out. I'm sorry if you don't have these modules guys but I really want to use them and inspiration is what will keep me working on this until it is finished. CAMPAIGN OVERVIEW The campaign will be divided into three series of missions, each with a main event and either one or two preludes. Each series will feature a different opponent and friendly supporting forces. In the opening series, As Hasakah, the action will be Infantry-only. 'A' company of the Syrian Airborne will be choppered in before dawn to assist a Reserve Motorised Infantry battalion with the assault on UNCON forces in As Hasakah. The player will have a lot of air and artillery assets at his disposal but he will have to be careful how he goes about winning the mission. More about that later. The player will take what is left of his force into the second mission, the assault across the rail lines into the centre of As Hasakah. Once again, this mission will be Infantry-only. From there the action moves to somewhere around Allepo. In this series, 'B' company will be assisting part of a Reserve Mech Infantry Battalion with some Reserve Tanks in support in assaulting the enemy forces near Allepo. I have a map that I crafted for the German campaign that never got used so it will appear here for the first time. This may be a one-mission series as I don't have any more Allepo maps. I want this series to be a bit more open so it's possible I might use an early German campaign map or a Dinas map that didn't make it into that campaign. (Shame, as it's a nice one too, but fictional and so might look out of synch with the other maps) The third, and final series will return to the dense urban jungle and will take place at Hama and will use the maps for the 'Audacity' and 'Bridge to Valhalla' missions from the German campaign. In these missions, 'A' Company will be assisting a Mech Infantry Battalion with 'good' tanks in one mission and 'B' Company, a Syrian Mechanised Airborne Company with BMP-3s in the other. This means that both core companies will fight three missions each and that's just about right. NO FREE HAND I didn't mention which forces you'd be fighting in the second and third series and that's because the opponent you face will change depending on your success in the first series. Nowadays, with the proliferation of handphones with video cameras and internet access, the manner in which you conduct yourself in putting down the rebels will be scrutinised by the world community. You CAN win the mission by plastering the city with high explosives before sending in the troops to mop up the dazed survivors. But this will outrage the International community and will result in western forces launching an air campaign to support the Rebels. The most obvious effect will be to remove all of your heavy artillery and air support from your future OBs and give the Red forces air support instead. Victory conditions in missions will be carefully crafted to disallow a BIG win (i.e. a Major or Total Victory) to the player who is too free with his artillery and air assets. You will still be able to win but only a Minor or Tactical Victory at best, and the campaign script will track this and send you to a different opponent in the next series. The REAL challenge will be to put down the Rebels without offending the International community. Do this and you will continue to fight UNCONs in the next series. Otherwise, you will stir up discontent both abroad and at home and the Rebel forces will consist of Regular Army formations. In the final series, you will be fighting Regular Mech Infantry forces with tanks in support regardless. However, they may have NATO air support and I might have another trick up my sleeve;). CAMPAIGN SCHEDULE I spent a lot of time this weekend playing and replaying the first mission to get the balance of forces more or less right and I'm in the process of getting a second AI plan up and running for the first mission and will get started on the second mission soon afterwards. Although I'm using existing maps, I should have enough time to improve them. Unlike creating content for a BFC release, I have as much time as I'm willing to spend to get this ready. I'd rather get this finished in 4-6 weeks which seems realistic as long as I don't get carried away and expand on it too much (which might happen). Re-using these maps cuts down the development time considerably and lets me get right to the best part of scenario design, for me at least, which is crafting the AI. Afterthought: If I still have some time on my hands after finishing this project, I may rework the NATO Canadian campaign as a British Light Infantry campaign. While waiting for TO&Es to become stable enough to create the real campaign missions, I was using the Brit Light Infantry Battalion as core units for testing and playing it that way was a real blast. The NATO Canadian Task Force is a much heavier force than the Brit Light Infantry battalion. the Brits have those really cool Jackals and WMIKS and no tanks and I'd like to rework it so that it can be played as the Brits as well. Tentatively called "Carry On up the Khabour". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sounds great PT. Yes, take the time to get the battles right with surprises etc... or what's the point... But, don't worry about which maps... Most of us couldn't tell if it's a Syrian map or Outer Wharisitstan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mission 1 is in the bag already and I'll get the second one started tomorrow. But it looks like there will have to be at least one more completely original map crafted for this one. As luck would have it, I was scouting out locations to the south east of Allepo to find an attractive and tactically interesting place for a Red v Red fight for a stand-alone to ship with the NATO module. I even got as far as starting drawing one up. Both those locations look really good from an 'attractive map' viewpoint so I think I'll go with at least one of them. The old Dinas-style maps are utterly unappealing to me now and so I doubt I'll be using either of the two spare Dinas maps. I much prefer maps of real locations now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Any updates on this? Looking forward to playing it, for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I've had a really sh!tty dose of the flu these last two weeks and I haven't done very much, I'm afraid. I seem to be over the hump now though and will be getting back to work on this again later this week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It will be ready when its ready sir, dont worry. Ive had he flu aswell. Just up and over and go on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Being sick sucks; good to hear you're over the worst. Rest up and take your time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Smash Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I don't know how I missed this original post. Paper Tiger, this new campaign sounds fantastic. I love the idea of having the international community step in if you're too heavy-handed. I look forward to it. Bob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm doing something but I'm still not over this bout of flu so the amount of work I'm getting done is pretty pathetic. However, the ideas continue to develop in my head and when I do play it, I'm having a lot of fun doing so. The BMP-3 is an absolute beast to play with 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I had something nasty a couple weeks ago. The worst part is that you think you're better... and then it hits you again. So, if you have whatever that was, take care when you "feel better." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afreu Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 With games like CM:SF that simulate modern armed conflict there is always a fine line between the legitimate interest in military tactics and the respect for the victims of war. As civilians are still being massacred in the same places that this campaign wants to rebuild for gamers' pleasures, this line has been crossed, in my opinion. I don't want to imply that the author of the campaign had sinister intentions. However, doing such a campaign demonstrates a severe lack of awareness and sensibility! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Your sentiments and sensitivity are admirable. But, I think that barn door has long been opened. Look at all the other "shooters" that cover the same or similar subjects. Call of Duty, Arma and many others come to mind. CMSF was created prior to any Syrian problems. It isn't cashing in on a tragedy. It doesn't feature civilian contractors. And it's bloody hard to kill civilians in the game (we've all tried). There are those who would say that simulating WW2 is also in bad taste and many think there is something wrong with wargamers such as are found on these forums. (And yes, we know there is something wrong with a few lol.) For the above reasons I can't be in your camp on this. Next we'll want to not simulate or make movies about Vietnam which was a lot more bloody, and a lot more civilians got killed. Mogadishu? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 However, doing such a campaign demonstrates a severe lack of awareness and sensibility! Aw crap! I'm about a third of the way into this and already somebody has taken a big dump on it. I'm going to take some time out playing this GAME and just relax playing something else until BFC ask me to do something new for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afreu Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 @Erwin: my point is not about the killing of civilians per se. It's mainly about the recency of the events. I'm not someone who takes a dump on other people's work. I appreciate all the other campaigns and scenarios you have designed for CMSF so far (as I've mentioned on various occasions before). My post was merely a comment on your current project. It's an opinion. Take it or leave it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 @afreu: > It's an opinion No, it is an insult. @Paper Tiger: don't listen to afreu, his opinion has no value, just create your campaign for us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 PC is ruining this world... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Please complete the scenario PT... If you don't, the terrorists win... If people don't want to watch a certain TV show or movie... then plz DON'T... Let the rest of us live our own lives. Thanks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 PC is ruining this world... Seriously. Please continute with the campaign PT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Smash Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yes, PT, please complete it. Bob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Aw crap! I'm about a third of the way into this and already somebody has taken a big dump on it. I'm going to take some time out playing this GAME and just relax playing something else until BFC ask me to do something new for them. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, take it in stride and keep working on it. We are wargamers, it's what we do. If anything it gets folks more aware of what is going on. Not doing it promotes ignorance and while ignorance may be bliss, those Syrian civilians will be no less dead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Having had my family virtually wiped out by WW2 by those ^%$^German Fascists, then using your logic I suppose I can appeal for people to no longer play WW2 games? 20-30 MILLION died in WW2, and your PC concern is what exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 Well, sensitivity about PC issues aside, this has been brought to my attention again and I've identified some of the maps I was using and have opened a new folder. I expect work on this will begin quite soon. Of course, it will be for CMSF2 and not the CMSF1 game. I really couldn't go back to that again. Too much has changed for the better IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Paper Tiger said: Well, sensitivity about PC issues aside, this has been brought to my attention again and I've identified some of the maps I was using and have opened a new folder. I expect work on this will begin quite soon. Of course, it will be for CMSF2 and not the CMSF1 game. I really couldn't go back to that again. Too much has changed for the better IMO. A good result, 10 years later . My only problem with the campaign is that I don't have SF2 (yet). Easily rectified I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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