ConfusedBuyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hope this isn't off-topic and whatnot...seemed like the "Normandy" forum is the best place to post this news. Instead of eBaying unearthed militaria, two French guys actually sought out the surviving family of the U.S. PVT who'd lost his tag in the field.... http://news.yahoo.com/dog-tag-lost-world-war-returned-soldiers-son-001150115.html It'd be great if wargames got more RPG elements into it. In fact, I believe that the next mass market hit will do just that. I don't mean dragons and damsels in distress, of course, but neither do I mean simply more tactical AI or more realistic graphics. I mean whole careers and whole characters, so that each Private So-and-So has an actual history...say a part of the wargame, after each and every action (battle -- that is, game), requires the player to type out letters to the next of kin...that kind of stuff. I think this kind of a wargame would really elevate the genre to an art, with real emotional appeal. And I think wargames can be much more educational, in a "non-encyclopedic" (that is, "academic") way, too. But yeah, it'll take a budget that rivals but the most modest Hollywood production. Oh well. Surprised Spielberg and Hanks haven't gone this route already, actually...bringing (much more) story to wargaming. Anyway, these two Frenchmen returning the dog tags...made me think it'd be a fitting conclusion to the kind of idealized wargaming experience I envision. Damn, is computer programming really that hard to learn?? (I know; of course it is.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Like Squad Leader? Start with a 7-0 Sgt and try to become that 10-3 leader? Close Combat One did that. Your guy was promoted based on a variety of things; scenarios won, kills etc. . IIRC he could get wounded, but would sit out the next battle in the campaign. So when your guy gets KIA, campaign ends right then and there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedBuyer Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Like Squad Leader? Start with a 7-0 Sgt and try to become that 10-3 leader? Close Combat One did that. Your guy was promoted based on a variety of things; scenarios won, kills etc. . IIRC he could get wounded, but would sit out the next battle in the campaign. So when your guy gets KIA, campaign ends right then and there? Nah, that's the thing...more role-playing doesn't mean tactical AI and experience points. I mean really knowing what it's like being a battlefield commander -- who aren't directing automatons (such as we are, in fact, doing with our sprites or whatever these pretty graphics are called) but real people with a real history. Now Close Combat was a great first step in this area but not sufficient. There needs to be an emotional angle to things. For example, imagine if one of your soldiers in a wargame was an ardent Nazi...who one day shat himself at the sight of the umpteenth Russian tank or something (hell, imagine that he's one of your very best soldiers, oder?). Imagine if your soldiers moved through a Russian village where the scorched earth policy was graphically evident -- dead cows, etc. Imagine seeing anti-German graffiti. Imagine bypassing fresh SS Einsatzgruppen on your weary, wounded way to the rear after a hard fight. Imagine then refusing to fight anywhere where SS are present...and being threatened with being shot...only to be simply transferred to another front or back home to a training battalion (as I understand to have been actually the case in the pitifully few cases of such insubordination), ending your illustrious career and thus the game -- do you see how "educational" that would be, how much more "emotion" would result, and what an experience like no other game in any genre that would be?? I'm talking role-playing, I'm talking emotions, I'm talking educational...I'm talking art. (Screw the politically correct crowd; what do they know -- besides, the publicity would be enormous.) Patriotism? Duty? Moral dilemmas are much more challenging, never mind interesting, than what tactic to apply to which obstacle. Talk about "total" war! I know Battlefront's budget is barely there for even the mechanical aspects of what they want to do, never mind this ambitious and vague stuff I'm talking about -- but this would be a hit, guaranteed. Battlefront's servers would get deluged from a mention by the New York Times' videogame journalist. See what I mean? I think it'd even inspire the Nobel committee to create a whole new prize category! Wargaming can be about so much more than physics and tactical AI. I hope that one day it becomes as profoundly moving (and educational, in all ways) as something like "Band of Brothers" (which is why I mentioned my surprise Spielberg and Hanks haven't invested in wargaming themselves, given their apparently intense effort at preserving the memory of those times, which involved so much more than facts and factoids)...yes, I believe we should seriously consider such a development path now, given the exponential progress of computing power to come. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymru Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh, come on.......a few dragons would add a whole new aspect to the game. Maybe Combat Mission Skyrim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The closest game I've found to the role playing experience your looking for is in the Brothers in Arms series from Gearbox Software. Its an FPS but it has some of the elements that you mentioned in your post. Btw the first 2 games in the series i would recommend "Road to Hill 30" & "Earned in Blood" but the 3rd game "Hells Highway" is a dud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedBuyer Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh, come on.......a few dragons would add a whole new aspect to the game. Maybe Combat Mission Skyrim. Hey, how about one of your soldiers getting drunk and hallucinating over dragons over something. Damn, so looking forward to 2025. I think wargames will be just like what I'm envisioning by then! Not even sure they'll call it a "game" anymore.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedBuyer Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 The closest game I've found to the role playing experience your looking for is in the Brothers in Arms series from Gearbox Software. Its an FPS but it has some of the elements that you mentioned in your post. Btw the first 2 games in the series i would recommend "Road to Hill 30" & "Earned in Blood" but the 3rd game "Hells Highway" is a dud. Ach, dislike FPS (gives me a serious headache after a few hours -- and no, I can't play them for less than a few hours!)...thanks for the recommendations, though! I'll still check 'em out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Moral dilemmas are much more challenging, never mind interesting, than what tactic to apply to which obstacle. Talk about "total" war! Sort of like taking the film "Cross of Iron" and making it a first person game and having to make decisions based upon your situation, environment, etc. Life as Sgt Steiner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedBuyer Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sort of like taking the film "Cross of Iron" and making it a first person game and having to make decisions based upon your situation, environment, etc. Life as Sgt Steiner. That was the first war movie I ever liked! My father used to watch war movies, action stuff, and I was always like, ewww, it's so gross, and so boring (but no, I'm not gay okay LOL), but Cross of Iron somehow touched me and made me find all this stuff more interesting. Seriously, I'm really thinking Battlefront (or whoever) would get a Nobel Prize for such a game. It'd be like the Ultima IV of our day! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You sound like you're talking about a role-playing persistent multiplayer game... Hard to mix genres on a small budget. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You sound like you're talking about a role-playing persistent multiplayer game... Hard to mix genres on a small budget. I want a mix of CM and Dwarf Fortress - you could read up on the history of every soldiers grandpa, you would know if Henry V. had slept in this old manorhouse... And: DF is even on a lower budget than CM! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'd rather focus on tactics, though I'll go so far as to say I like immersion. Perhaps you should invest in an actual role-playing game, I just finished the second Witcher game, you should check that out, no "grinding" drudgery like most RPGs and it has a solid story. It's also "somewhat" tactical, and has a dragon! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 it's all a matter of imagination, you can already apply this if you'd like. If you strictly adhere to letting your units only do what they would be capable of doing without the god effect of your command level, you have a ready made mechanism to create your own story there....you gotta be willing to have that Tank role right into the crosshairs of that AT gun you know about but the tank itself doesn't though.... Look at campaigns like devil's descent as an example of what is possible already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat_of_war Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 i second the recomendation for the brothers in arms series. very good story, more emotional than any other fps out there, and the fact the maps are based on actual research makes it better.. hmm i wonder how a campaign based on it and the actual real events would go. the adventures of red and bullet proof matt baker.. although the latest one adds tank driving sections which is mmm very arcadey to say the least. i cant remember the name of it but i distinctly remember a game from a few years ago where you ended up with letters home to the families. it was a very sobering moment. the mockumentary "tales of virtual combat" shows what can be done as well with just a little creativity. one idea i had. some seperate files with each campaign. password protected and you get the password in a briefing or debriefing after or before a battle. things like letters from home, maps, a photo from a loved one. more detailed intelligence reports and for someone creative. maybe a short movie or two 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 some seperate files with each campaign. password protected and you get the password in a briefing or debriefing after or before a battle. things like letters from home, maps, a photo from a loved one. more detailed intelligence reports and for someone creative. maybe a short movie or two. It would be cool to have a video briefing at the beginning of a campaign/battle within a campaign, aerial footage, supposed enemy locations based on last night's patrol, etc. Here is your mission... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I want Space Lobsters of Doom...or Battle for LA with Modern vs Aliens... OR EVEN BETTER. Harry Turtledoves series where the Aliens withi 2010 weaponry land at 1942...we have all the models. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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