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Sniper test and small weapons problem


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I'm giving you the results of a litlle sniper test :

map 2100 m, 1 veteran sniper against one platoon, about11mn battle

infantry spotted at 1500 m first shot at 800 m

15 shots by sniper 5 loss for infantry.

at 270 m the mp40 guy started to open fire and my sniper detected, wounded and pin down. only 30 % hit.

on immobile infantry at 300 m 20 mn

21 kia and 16 wia in 20 mn 60 shots for the sniper.

snipers, like in cmsf shoot at medics in priority.

on vehicule : no result. Sniper can't hit a tank commander or infantry in half track. He was eliminated in less than 2 mn at about 300 m.

I think that in general in the game sniper should really be harder to spot.

There is a great difference in cmbn compare to cmx1 game concerning tank commanders. In cmx1 i used to button up my tanks when close to infantry by fear of snipers and that's not the case in the game but i have been reading that it was a bug and that BFC was looking at it.

Why is the mp40 shooting at 270 m ? I think it's a waste of ammo and that it reveals the position to the ennemy and the result is a dead team.

I have no experience with mp 40 but i had the occasion to shot with the french mat49, a 9mm mp, when in was in the army. i doubt that the weapon would be efficient at that distance. I had the opportunity to talk to a someone who used this weapon during the war in Algeria and he said that this was not a precise weapon at long distance and i guess it's the same with mp in the game.

It's a problem for small teams, Snipers, AT team etc... and that was the case in cmsf too. the mp guy shoot at infantry at too long distance, revealing the position and you can say goodbye to your team.

I also think that pistols are to accurate in the game at 100 m +.

Exemples at little more than 100 m : US tank crew, 3 shots and 2 guys down for the german and a squad pinned down. At 120 m two crew member of a panzer iv hit by a pistol of a US tank crew (compare to snipers).

It would be nice also if tank crews did not react as infantry. They attack like regular infantry when the vehicle is destroyed and i think they should stay in more defensive position and that they should be more demoralized when their vehicules are hit.

Small details, but sometimes very frustrating when playing

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Why is the mp40 shooting at 270 m ? I think it's a waste of ammo and that it reveals the position to the ennemy and the result is a dead team.

Yeah, SMGs should be opening up at no more than 200 meters, and at that sort of range the accuracy should not be that great. There's a reason, after all, why the Germans developed the MP44.

I also think that pistols are to accurate in the game at 100 m +.

Exemples at little more than 100 m : US tank crew, 3 shots and 2 guys down for the german and a squad pinned down. At 120 m two crew member of a panzer iv hit by a pistol of a US tank crew (compare to snipers).

Yep. I once lost a number of infantry to an AT gunner (Regular skill level) that was shooting at my men with a P38 from behind a hedgerow at about 100 meters distance. That's a bunch of nonsense.

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Yeah, SMGs should be opening up at no more than 200 meters, and at that sort of range the accuracy should not be that great. There's a reason, after all, why the Germans developed the MP44.

Yep. I once lost a number of infantry to an AT gunner (Regular skill level) that was shooting at my men with a P38 from behind a hedgerow at about 100 meters distance. That's a bunch of nonsense.

I've shot various SMGs over the years and hitting moving targets more than 50m away isn't practical no matter if you use the .45 or a 9mm.

Sure some of the modern weapons like the MP5 are pretty decent up to 100+ meters but it's NOT a rifle and shouldn't be used as such.

If I could I would take the weapon from the spotters in CMBN to prevent them from getting the team spotted and killed. :mad:

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I found in a few articles that for the MP 40 the max range was 200 m but effective range is 100 m.

For the thompson the range was about 50 m.

For the MAT 49 50 to 100 m.

For the MP5 100 m

For the PPSh-41 it seems about 200 m.

For the sten about 50 m.

In the game i'have seen shots at more than 200 M.

I think that they should open at 100m or less except maybe for saturation fire when the player gives the order to target a building or area target.

For pistols i think that an effective range of 50 m is the max. for soldiers who are not very well trained. So, very frustrating to have a squad pinned down at 100 m + by one or two guys with pistols.

I also think that sniper should get some change so that spotting one sniper should be much harder than regular infantry.

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For pistols i think that an effective range of 50 m is the max. for soldiers who are not very well trained. So, very frustrating to have a squad pinned down at 100 m + by one or two guys with pistols.

Really, no suppression? If a couple of guys were firing pistols at me and my friends from that distance, bullets zipping through the foliage, I don't know about you but I'd be ducking.

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Well, you are right, but i think that over 100m precision and suppression is too high.

During playing i had a experiences were a squad is shot by pistols, sometimes 1 man at 100 m or more and had 1 or 2 guys down got suppressed and unable to return fire.

Or the exemple with the tank commander of a Panzer IV shot at more than 100m in his turret by a pistol. If you compare to snipers that just can't hit a tank commander at 300 m or less.

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First of all, I want to say that the lethality shown by the sniper at range vs leg infantry is truly impressive and a great improvement over CMx1, and quite realistic. It is enough to make them fearsome weapons tactically. The morale impact of losses on that scale should arguably be higher, but hitting that often and for that long is both realistic and terrifyingly effective as a tactical achievement. Remember the average weapon doesn't take out its opposite number over its whole operational life (proof, somebody lives through the war), and clearing this level of performance for one man with a rifle is outstanding in those exchange-attrition terms. (I agree if they can hit infantry that reliably at that range, they should be more dangerous to exposed tank crewmen. 1 hit in 6 would suffice, buttoning them up on a miss).

But I also second the comment about annoyance at the helper with the SMG opening up way too soon and way too far. I'd like to be able to set a separate covered arc for the SMG - but otherwise, and SOP of only firing at 100 meters or after being spotted and fired upon, would be far preferable to the existing routines. Even then, once the SMG man has to open fire, it should be spray heavily (full mag) to suppress the enemy and then "D" immediately - the team gets out of dodge, to find a new hidden location to hunt from - even if that means tomorrow and a mile away.

On effective ranges for SMGs I second the comments above. The PPsH is notably longer range than the others, both because of the full stock for better aiming and because its bullet has a significantly higher muzzle velocity than the other pistol ammo rounds fired by SMGs. Even so, 150 meters is about as far as that one wants to fire - it isn't a carbine.

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I was also annoyed initially with the overparticipation of the sniper team burp gunner (same problem occurred with the Uncon RPG teams in CMSF, btw -- all too often they end up joining a firefight and achieving martyrdom before they even fire a rocket).

However, as I recently noted elsewhere, I've found this unit to be a very useful "budget stretcher" for chronically understrength German infantry screening a series of smaller hedgerow fields. At short ranges, the MP40 gives much of the short range suppressive value of a LMG, which seems consistent with historical accounts. And at longer ranges, you have the sniper.

So with those historical data points out of the way, here's my first attempt -- this is the German setup I playtested last night that successfully stymied 2+ US infantry squads on 5 replays.

7 landser total -- a sniper team at the near end (the MP40 was probably about as handy in this small field as the LMG), the FOO team in the middle and an LMG team at the far end. I used that trick someone discovered a while back of placing foxholes and then re-editing the map to place low bocage on top. This gives excellent protection to the defenders while allowing them LOS into the entire field.

Bocage_defense2.jpg

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