Fūrinkazan Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I've been reading threads about indirect fire with hmg and the comparison of allied and germand infantry and i wanted to show the results of a test i did a few weeks ago. The test map is 250m X 2100m. 5 Hmg in bunker against on company of 125 men all regular with average moral and motivation and command. Best conditions, no wind clear weather. Spotting : Bunker are spotted at 2100 m by infantry. Hmg spot at about 1500 m for allied and german hmg. For Lmg 42 they spot at about 1000 m (no binoculars) the Hq spotted at 1300 m Opening of fire : 800m for hmg 750 m for lmg without order. With order hmg 42 open at 850 m and 1200 m for us 30 cal. Rate of fire : Hmg 42 at 800 m 7 sec between each burst of 7 to 10 bullets :49 to 70 rounds mn at 600 m 9 bursts : 63 to 90 shots rpm at 300 m 12 burst : 84 to 120 shots rpm under 300m you can expect 9 to 12 bursts by mn Lmg 42 750 m 5 bursts : 35 to 50 rpm 300 m 10 bursts : 70 to 100 rpm 100 m 10 to 12 bursts mn : 120 rpm US 30 cal 750 m 3 bursts of 4/5 bullets :12 to 15 rpm 550 m 8 bursts : 32 to 40 rpm 300m and less about 10 to 12 bursts mn : 48 to 60 rpm Results on infantry after 11 mn of battle : Hmg 42 :27 kia 25 wia about 42% loss infantry is not stopped by hmg lmg 42 : 12 kia 13 wia 20% loss infantry is not stopped by hmg US 30 cal : 21 kia 20 wia 42 % loss infantry is not stopped by hmg Conclusion : From the German field manual we can see that Germans expected lmg in infantry squads to : shoot with accuracy 50-60 bullets in 8 burst of 5 to 8 rounds in 30 seconds, so 16 bursts mn = 80 to 128 rpm in the game I think the game represents quiet well lmg fire but not Hmg fire. While playing i have noticed that the rate of fire of hmg 42 can be of one burst by second : 360 to 600 rmp ... but only under 100 m. As we can see the rate of fire is linked to distance. My guess is that mg gunner is aiming at each burst. The longer the distance the longer de delay between each burst ( 7 seconds at 800 m). The result is a rate of fire to low. In my tests, infantry ran during 11 mn in front of 5 hmg stopped at 100m of the bunkers without pause. The hmg did not have enough suppression effect to stop them. But it's linked to the low rate of fire : the more incoming bullets = the more suppression. My opinion is that the results for both US and German hmg are not realistic and that Hmg are not well represented in the game. In real life it would be impossible for infantry to run 1200 m in front of hmg like this. We can compare to mortars : they don't target a particular man but a zone. if mortars were like hmg the rate of fire would be very low since at each shot they woud have to correct the fire to hit the target. Hmg should do the same : area fire. In real life movies i'have seen hmg shooting without pause, moving right to left and the gunner was not aiming a particular target. It's a problem when you want to stop infantry in the open when defending and when you need support at long range in the attack. 7 seconds between each burst is too long to pin down ennemy infantry at long range and HMg do not play their role in the game. I'm sorry for this long post, but i think that BFC should really take a look at this. I know that they have a lot of work and that it may be a detail but i think it's important. For exemple, when they modified the accuracy of tanks on the move, it was for me a great improvement in the game and the same with indestructible trees. I'm not asking for more accuracy for hmg but a higher rate of fire : longer bursts (2,3 seconds of firing) and less delay between each burst = more suppression for infantry and infantry pin down. I know that the game cannot simulate everything, and i'm not asking for that but i think that hmg are not well moddeled in the game and that a little change, and that's possible since hmg can have a very high rate of fire in the game at - 100 m, would improve the simulation and the gaming experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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