pagskier Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 So hum, yeah, will there be a Rolling barrage? It was a common tactic, 25pounder moving on, I haven't read much major battle that didn't had those. SO will we get those? That would be awsome! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 So hum, yeah, will there be a Rolling barrage? It was a common tactic, 25pounder moving on, I haven't read much major battle that didn't had those. SO will we get those? That would be awsome! you can do a rolling barrage by using TRPs. In the Lucherberg campaign you have lots of them in the first battle just for this purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagskier Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Right, but havingn the opportunity, to plan them area and advance would be a nice feature Just downloaded that Campaing didn`t had the chance to play it yet! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 you can do a rolling barrage by using TRPs. In the Lucherberg campaign you have lots of them in the first battle just for this purpose. Why can't you do a rolling barrage without a TRP? It's indeed a bit harder to get the schedule right, because of the longer delays... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wokelly Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Right, but havingn the opportunity, to plan them area and advance would be a nice feature Just downloaded that Campaing didn`t had the chance to play it yet! I brought this up awhile ago, the answer was no. Frankly I heavily disagree with the rationale given but regardless the answer was pretty clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagskier Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 HUm... Also having area fire in a rectangle way would be nice, probly more usefull than a circle way... I know there is this linera thing, but it`s not the same, you need to add depth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've been posting my wishes for rectangle missions since CMSF came out. They would ne very useful in many situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Too much artillery spoils the game. Well it shows up the game's limitations as to excessive casualty rates and effect in certain situations and locations, rates that were discussed forever back in the CM1 days and which still are evident years later. Sometimes I feel like grabbing the excuse for infantry that is portrayed as WW2 here and giving them a WW1 style artillery workover. Just for some reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Let's talk about how we actually might simulate a rolling barrage -- as best we can, given the way the game works now. This will be very important for the Commonwealth tactics, but can be useful right now too. My books say the standard British rolling barrage lifted and moved forward 100 yards every 3 minutes. So in CMBN terms lets say you'd want to: 1. Have a full battalion of 105mm offmap guns (3 batteries of 4 guns each), representing the standard brigade/regimental support element. As each battery takes its firing turn, the other two are cooling down. 2. Have lots of TRPs in opposite pairs, each pair stepped back 8 action spots at either side of the barrage box. 3. Have your FOs call in a new TRP target line every 3 turns. The big question is, what type of mission do you call and what duration do you set to get 3 minutes of FFE on the designated line? I've tried to estimate this from the chart that's been posted on this forum and on the wiki site, but I don't think I see a clear answer. Does anyone know? If not, I may have to conduct some experiments... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would love to see a tutorial on how to set up and conduct a rolling barrage, lifting barrage etc in Combat Mission. However, having too much artillery could, as others have mentioned spoil the game. But this does not mean that it should not be available in larger scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 How about Time on Target artillery? From all accounts I have read the effect was devastating on morale, regardless of physical destruction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 TOT barrages in WW2 took just to the left of forever to calculate. Each individual trajectory had to be calculated with a slide rule. Texas Instruments was not around to help back then. TOT barrage in CM = 30+ minute prep time. You want that? Rolling barrages are easy once you practice. With or without TRPs. Make a test battle in the editor and play with it until you have it down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Let's talk about how we actually might simulate a rolling barrage -- as best we can, given the way the game works now. This will be very important for the Commonwealth tactics, but can be useful right now too. My books say the standard British rolling barrage lifted and moved forward 100 yards every 3 minutes. So in CMBN terms lets say you'd want to: 1. Have a full battalion of 105mm offmap guns (3 batteries of 4 guns each), representing the standard brigade/regimental support element. As each battery takes its firing turn, the other two are cooling down. 2. Have lots of TRPs in opposite pairs, each pair stepped back 8 action spots at either side of the barrage box. 3. Have your FOs call in a new TRP target line every 3 turns. The big question is, what type of mission do you call and what duration do you set to get 3 minutes of FFE on the designated line? I've tried to estimate this from the chart that's been posted on this forum and on the wiki site, but I don't think I see a clear answer. Does anyone know? If not, I may have to conduct some experiments... To answer my own question -- after some experimenting: The setup is a battalion-scale battle. One full battalion (3 x 4 guns 105mm, ammo supply FULL) seemed just right to put good coverage on about the 2-company front that a this battalion would be attacking on, about 470m wide. A mission of "medium" rate and "medium" duration was just right for approximately 3 minutes/turns of FFE on each step of the rolling barrage. In this case, the delay between the FO calling in each mission and the FFE was 3 minutes/turns, so I called in the next step of the barrage on every 3rd turn. Interestingly, the heat on the barrels from 3 minutes of firing like this had totally cooled by the first turn after "end of mission," so each battery was immediately ready to receive a new mission again. Having 3 batteries just allows for more steps to the barrage (because 3 batteries bring 3 times more ammo to the party). Each medium rate/medium duration mission for the a 105mm battery used 36 rounds, so that would allow each battery to do 4 missions. That means the rolling barrage for a full 105mm artillery battalon at full supply could be as much as 12 steps deep (some 960m), if the batteries fire successively and use all their ammo. Coordinating this with infantry: From what I can find online, "danger close" for 105mm shells in WWII was at least 350m (and even there in CMBN we've seen occasional friendly casualties from the odd fragment). In the bocage, of course, the fields are often smaller than this and the bocage offers some protection from HE. So an advancing infantry wave would probably need to stay 350m behind the barrage in the open, or one bocage field/terrain feature behind the barrage in the more covered areas. That would let your troops stay on the "safe" side of a bocage field while the barrage falls on the opposite side, then Quick across the open field as soon as the barrage lifts to the next step. All the friendly mortars, tanks and MGs can area-fire on the far hedgerow to continue suppressing any enemy that survived the barrage. Next I'll try to apply this with infantry, as described above, and see what the results look like against a good bocage defense line in foxholes, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Nice work Broadsword. I bet that looked awesome! So, 24 TRPs for a twelve-step linear walking barrage? Bit pricey for a QB, and that many in the hands of a gamey player in a scenario could lead to all sorts of silliness if "mis-used". Now if you wanted to slim down to a 100m +/- linear front, you could squeak by with 6-7 TRPs in a direct line up the gut of your attack axis. Take all the TRP will give you side-to-side and as far forward, then back as it will go. Each single TRP gives two 100m linears approx 100m apart in depth. ------------- EDIT - Compromise... Staggered TRPs. Target Linears from far left/rear of left TRP to far right/front of right TRP. More TRPs, but more front covered. And still a bit less than pairs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Good points, Schultzie -- I wasn't thinking of this for QBs, but more for historical scenarios or situations where play balance isn't a consideration. I'm assuming QB players will steer clear of artillery on this scale just because it's so devastating, and as you point out, so costly to buy all those TRPs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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