Bobjack1240

Yes. The Marines were mostly using M60A1 Rises all the way into Desert Storm with a handful of M1A1HAs the Army gave them. The Army's 105mm Abrams tanks were using a mix of M-900,833, and 774 https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/141i023/us_105mm_sabot_vs_iraqi_t72m1s_1991/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 .

On the ammunition data page for the Steelbeasts wiki it states it "was the standard "go to war" round for the USMC until the 1991 Gulf War" which doesn't make sense that the Marines would keep it around for that long because contemporary CIA documents give it only a 20% chance of taking out an upper or lower bound protected T-72 compared to the 50% chance for a upper bound protected T-72 and 80% chance for a lower bound protected T-72 (US Intelligence and Soviet Armor).

Supply and readiness: The BAOR's logistics were so bad that most of the corps' supplies were merely enough to sustain the reinforced division that was the ground component of Granby in '91 let along the ~106,000 strong ground component that was the BAOR's theoretical "wartime strength" as was showcased by Lionheart in 1984 not including the RAF, West German, Dutch, and US reinforcements also sent under Lionheart. "The amount of ammunition shipped to the Gulf was almost half of the WMR held by Britain in Germany for whole of BAOR" (Never Ready by Helion). Granby had to poach manpower to ensure their formations were up to strength. Meanwhile in Germany "There were no operational Warrior AIFVs and only about 10 running Challengers left in the whole Rhine Army, not to mention a host of other equipment left useless by cannibalization." General Thompson of the BAOR. In the same manner, all RAF(G) support helicopters were deployed for GRANBY leaving none for operations on the NATO Central Front. I should also emphasize again that Granby's ground component was a single reinforced division. Technology and training: By 1989, only 50% of BAOR's armor consisted of Challenger 1s with the other half being Chieftains that weren't supposed to be replaced until the 1990s. Compare that with the US units in CENTAG who had just moved M60A3s to 2nd line units and were now working with a mix of Abrams '79s, IPs, and A1s. The US had also just started adding the A1 Heavy Armor variant with depleted uranium turret armor that could withstand the strongest Soviet sabots. In '83 (the same date as WINTEX), BAOR's armor would have been entirely Chieftains while the US was working with a 50/50 mix of Abrams '79s and M60A3s for frontline units in CENTAG. By the time of Lionheart in 1984, some Challenger 1s might have made it to BAOR but the bulk of British Armor would have still been Chieftains. The Chieftans would have been using L-15 apds in both WINTEX and Lionheart while US Armor would have been using M-774 in WINTEX and M-833 in Lionheart. Soviet tests with Iranian L-15 apds found that they could only penetrate the glacis of a T-72/64A at 1000 meters or less and the turret at only 500 meters while 774 and 833 could penetrate the glacis of a T-72M1 (Essentially a T-72A but without the antiradiation liner and with inferior sabot to their Soviet counterparts) with 16mm stopgap plate out to 3 kilometers as per tests done with captured Iraqi vehicles during Desert Storm https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/141i023/us_105mm_sabot_vs_iraqi_t72m1s_1991/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3. Note I accidently referred to the 16mm stopgap plate as Reflection 1 in the linked post. That was a typo and I was corrected in the comments. While this disadvantage could theoretically be countered out with the vast stocks of Milans, Swingfires, and TOWS, like their American and Soviet/Pact counterparts, these had to be manually guided onto their targets. Tanks needing infantry atgm support to destroy other tanks at long range engagements was not ideal. The operators could easily be hosed down with artillery or machine gun fire as was done in the October War in 1973. In Granby, the ground forces had the luxury of receiving additional training and time to up-armor their vehicles with "shoe" explosive reactive armor and other implements. In Europe, they wouldn't have had that extra time. Soviet/Pact SHORAD along with the contested airspace would have complicated the use of Lynx ATGM helicopters in any Counterstroke operations that would have been launched after absorbing the initial Soviet/Pact attack. This problem wasn't so present in Granby as the Coalition had total air superiority In Granby, the RAF had the luxury of being able to use their Tornados for ground attack and targeting runways and thus Granby didn't have to fire a single AAM. In a Hot war in Europe, the contested airspace would have made this near impossible and the attack role would have to be done with older and less effective Buccaneers and Jaguars. The Blowpipe was laughable ineffective as its performance in the Falklands showed only a 15% hit rate. While this was eventually replaced with the Javelin, it wouldn't be available in time for the hot war as laid out in WINTEX which was also the same year the Soviets almost started an actual war over Able Archer 83 hence the reason I keep mentioning WINTEX. Depending on how long the war lasted, US supplied Stingers or stockpiled Redeyes could potentially replace the Blowpipe as a stopgap since production was cut after the Falklands. This also wasn't ideal since the US would have inevitably reintroduced the draft to replace the skyrocketing casualties of a war in Europe and depending on what emergency powers Parliament and Thatcher were granted, they would have probably done the same. After 1985, the infantry were downgraded when their SLRs and Brens were replaced with the L85 rifle and squad automatic weapon which were notoriously unreliable. Performance in a hypothetical Hot War as per the scenario laid out in WINTEX '83 In the exercise from 1983 a confrontation begins with a political breakdown in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia during December and January. NATO is concerned that these will prompt a military response from the Soviet Union. Because of increasing Soviet military activity, NATO’s Military Vigilance measures are initiated on 31 January. On 5 February the US/UK Lines Of Communication agreement commences in preparation for the arrival of US reinforcements by sea and air. In Britain, Simple Alert Measures are implemented between 17 and 20 February. Royal Navy ships are positioned in the Norwegian Sea and other peacetime deployment locations. The UK Mobile Force is deployed to Denmark and all land forces exercises are cancelled. UK military installation and Key Points protection is implemented, and regular reserves put on 48 hours’ notice to move. The Government announces the introduction of Emergency Powers and the mobilization of military reserves on 24 February. Police reserves, special constables and retired officers are put on stand-by prompted by fears of rioting and problems in food shops as panic buying is reported. Many civilians begin to leave large urban areas and head for the countryside in what is euphemistically referred to as ‘self-evacuation.’ From 26 February the National Health Service begins the accelerated discharge of patients from hospitals across the country. Increased maritime air reconnaissance identifies four Soviet nuclear submarines sortieing into the North Atlantic. Soviet aircraft are peacefully intercepted around the British Isles by Phantom interceptors, but worryingly demonstrate the Soviet Air Force’s ability to attack from the south and south-west. British Airways is now fully engaged in ferrying reinforcements to the continent. On this one day some 37,000 US reinforcement personnel are in the UK in addition to the permanent US garrison. Reinforced Alert is 95 percent complete, according to the UK Government. Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces are reported gathering in the Kola Peninsula to threaten Finland and Norway; in the south to threaten Turkey, Italy and Gibraltar; and in the Central Region a build-up of forces is noted. BAOR reports that out loading of supplies is going well, and will be completed by 3 March, however until the TA mobilization is complete there are insufficient forces to guard all of the Key Points. Rationing is introduced on 27 February in order to reduce the panic buying of food. Government War Book Measures to prepare the UK for nuclear attack are now being implemented. This threat is made more acute as Russian military aircraft violate British airspace when they overfly Scotland and Northern Ireland. The problems associated with maritime supply are increased as some ports become unavailable, as in the Western Dock at Southampton where a Polish ship sinks, closing it indefinitely. The capacity of the road-freight businesses are allbut monopolized by the needs of reinforcement and supply. During the increase in tension Supreme Allied Command Atlantic (SACLANT) had requested a maritime exclusion zone be declared around Norway and Denmark, which would allow freer movement of Allied battle groups and amphibious forces in those waters. However, this was declined by the Military Committee of NATO. SACLANT would have to find other ways of protecting the ships. Yugoslavia is invaded by Soviet, Bulgarian and Hungarian forces on the 28th. As a result, the danger level increases and the UKWMO is activated as well as the main body of 1(BR) Corps deployed. Command of the national forces in NATO is now transferred to Supreme Allied Command Europe (SACEUR). The NATO Defence Planning Committee met and assessed that the Soviet Union had already taken the decision to attack NATO, and that the warning should be raised to its highest level. The Soviet Union representative at the UN proposed a conference to discuss the current tensions. Guidelines for the use of nuclear weapons are distributed to War Cabinet members in Whitehall, and the Government begins to issue ‘Protect and Survive’ advice to the public.27 At the same time, war breaks out between several Middle Eastern states as some seek to take advantage of the focus of the superpowers concentrates on Europe. Soviet naval forces are continuing to gather in the GIUK Gap and the Norwegian Sea. An amphibious group, supported by the Kirov group, has departed Murmansk.28 Finland rejects a request from the Soviets for freedom to move troops over its border. As February ends and March begins, several Soviet naval battle groups are seen approaching the Iceland/Faeroes gap, threatening the NATO carrier fleets and the amphibious groups. Fighting is still going on in Yugoslavia, and NATO detects large movements westwards of Soviet and WP units in the Central Region. The fighting elements of the UK/NL Amphibious Force and US Marine Corps (USMC) 4th Marine Amphibious Brigade (MAB) along with the Canadian Air-Sea Transported Brigade Group (CAST) are in Norway preparing for a Soviet invasion. The UK component of the Amphibious Force comprises a Brigade HQ, four Royal Marine Commandos (battalion sized units) plus organic logistics, artillery, engineers and special units. Problems with weather and congestion at ports mean that the logistic element is delayed. However, with the assistance of US helicopters the British forces are deployed around Tromsø by 2 March. The RAF has completed the movement of squadrons to West Germany and is now fully mobilized. Jaguar, Harrier and Phantom squadrons have moved to their operational airbases. Commander in Chief Central Region (CINCENT) reports that although all units have been deployed to their main positions, defensive preparations may take another four days to complete. British civilians, mainly families from BAOR, are evacuated to Britain using sea and air routes. Some 100,000 are expected to be evacuated by the end of 3 March. The British Cabinet authorises Major Policy Decision 39 which aims to prepare Britain for nuclear attack by dispersing vital services and activities and introducing the BBC Wartime Broadcasting Service. On 2 March Soviet naval activity increases with large naval groups and two amphibious groups at sea threatening Northern Norway, and the Northern Fleet’s SSBNs preparing for sea. These are seen as a direct threat to the Carrier Battle Groups in the Norwegian sea. Defensive minefields are laid in many of the main sea approaches to Britain, Ireland and the continent to protect the entrances to harbors and ports. In addition, WP transport aircraft are concentrating westwards in apparent preparation for large scale airborne operations. Early on 3 March some WP reconnaissance forces are reportedly landed on the Norwegian coast in anticipation of an amphibious assault on Namsos. CINCNORTH request additional air support, and two squadrons of Jaguars are transferred to Tirstrup in Denmark with a squadron of Harriers deployed to Tromsø. The UKMF(L) is deployed across the neck of the Danish peninsula between Hamburg and Lübeck The Soviet forces in the Kola peninsula begin offensive action against Finland. This is expected to develop into an invasion of Norway. WP troops were also reported moving north-west in Yugoslavia, approaching the Italian border. Fears are that Italy will be invaded soon. Soviet amphibious forces, supported by paradrops in battalion strength, attack the Namsos and Lyngen Fjord areas early on the morning of 3 March, but suffer significant losses to their ships in the process. Five large warships, five smaller destroyer sized vessels, and numerous diesel submarines are sunk by NATO air and sea forces in the operation. Another divisional-strength amphibious attack goes in against Andøya. There is no news about the fate of the NATO troops defending Norway. In the Central Region, WP forces cross the IGB north of Hannover in the Dannenburg salient accompanied by heavy air attacks on Oldenburg and Hameln. An attempt to take two bridges over the Salzgitter Canal are fought off successfully. Losses to 1(GE) Corps and BE Corps are heavy. The attack against the 1(GE) Corps is held by a spirited defense, although Corps reserves were already being deployed by the West Germans. 1(BR) Corps deploys a reconnaissance screen but there is little pressure in this area. The fear in 1(BR) Corps is of being surrounded as the two flanking corps come under increasing pressure from the WP. Britain is now coming under increasing attack, both from the air and from Special Forces, with nearly 3,500 casualties reported. Key Points throughout the country are attacked with varying levels of success. Many of these KPs relate to air defense, and nuclear warning and launch locations. A toll is being taken of enemy aircraft in attacks, but in the first day UK Air Defence loses four aircraft. Only profligate use of air-to-air missiles is minimizing Soviet air attacks on Britain. But, the stocks are diminishing rapidly, and the main air defense interceptor, the Lightning, has only 44 percent of pre-war stocks of Red Top missiles left. Navy losses continue to mount with HMS Andromeda and RFA Austin sunk, and HMS Yarmouth, Leander and Torquay damaged. The stocks of Sea Dart and Sub-Harpoon missiles are reported as zero. The limited number of minesweepers are fully engaged trying to keep the Clyde clear, but other ports such as Felixstowe, Hull and Immingham are mined and unusable. Air attacks persist, and the Government issues an announcement of the ‘stay-put’ policy. Transport routes are to be controlled and essential travel only is allowed. The 4th brings news of WP forces making progress in the 1(GE) and BE Corps areas, with increasingly powerful attacks against 1(BR) Corps. 1st Armoured Division in 1(BR) sector reports penetrations of up to 15km, and counterattacks have been planned for overnight. 1st Armoured Covering Force has suffered serious loss of men and equipment in delaying the Soviet first echelon attacks, however details of casualties from 1(BR) Corps are uncertain. A battle report from 1st Armoured describes an action conducted by a battlegroup comprising tanks from the 3rd Royal Tank Regiment and infantry from the 2nd Battalion Royal Green Jackets, supported by Royal Horse Artillery Swingfire units and Royal Artillery Abbots. This force was pitted against at least a Motor Rifle and Tank regiment-sized enemy force supported by helicopters and large amounts of artillery. Two enemy tank battalions of T-80s supported by Motor Rifle battalions of BMP-2s and BTRs crossed the river Fuhse and assaulted the British positions placed along the Ballenberg Ridge near Soehlde, and the Messeberg Ridge by Hoheneggelsen. The initial attack by the Soviet forces was against Soehlde with large amounts of artillery preparation. The Soviet Commander then pushed additional forces to the south of the town to outflank the British positions. This maneuver ran into two squadrons of the 3rd RTR and lost many tanks. However, tank numbers and overwhelming artillery support forced the 3rd RTR and Green Jackets back onto the Messeberg ridge. The attack was held there while preparations for a full withdrawal were made. Despite heavy losses from Lynx ATGW helicopters the Soviet forces secured the Messeberg ridge and forced back the British battlegroup with considerable casualties. 6 March showed stocks of some naval surface-to-air and surface to-surface missiles are being reported as zero. The continental reception ports had come under attack, and this was disrupting the out loading of those ships into Europe. Of the Home ports, ten of the twelve were closed until further notice through bombing and mining, and the Clyde was closed for at least 24 hours. Warship losses had reached 35 percent, which would cause serious problems for the defense of convoys and anti-submarine efforts. Norway north of Tromsø was considered lost to the Soviet invasion, and those forces were expected to push south to Namsos. 3 Commando Brigade is moving North towards Tromsø to counter this threat. Amphibious and airborne landings were made in Denmark on Zealand supported by heliborne assault and chemical attacks. 1(BR) Corps mounted a counterattack overnight against the Soviet penetration of 1st Armoured Division, but was unable to hold any ground gained and was forced back. The 1(BR) Corps reserves had been committed to this counterattack, and more generally in NORTHAG all corps level reserves were now fully engaged. More worryingly, WP forces were employing chemical weapons in increasing numbers. Two assaults, one heliborne and the other parachute, now hold the bridges over the Weser at Nienburg and over the Leine at Ahlden. SACEUR is expecting the WP forces to attempt a breakthrough on one of the main axes of advance in the next 24–48 hours. Shipping losses in the Channel and South West Approaches reach almost 75 percent. Anti-submarine operations are continuing in the Atlantic to ensure the lines of communication between the US and Britain stay open. By 7 March supplies of anti-tank guided weapons (ATGW) and Chieftain tank 120mm ammunition are reported as very low, and entirely exhausted in some places, and 2nd Allied Tactical Air Force (2ATAF) sortie rate has been reduced by up to 40 percent. Chemical weapons continue to be used by the WP in Europe and against targets in the UK. The situation is becoming desperate, and SACEUR requests nuclear release. Early on the 8th NATO launches a limited attack using tactical nuclear weapons on WP bloc targets in an attempt to stop the follow-on forces reaching the battle front. Political efforts are made to inform the Soviet command that the attacks are limited in scope, but whether this is believed or not is unknown. At this point the exercise ends.

I was reading Helion's "Never Ready" about the British Army during the Cold War and the way they describe Counterstroke seems oddly similar to Active Defense. How are Counterstroke and Active Defense different?

The devs should have made loitering helicopters like in the Wargame Series.

In most of the late 1980s footage of GSFG tank troops I've seen, they're either using T-80B/BVs, or T-64B/BVs. Did they ever get their hands on T-80Us because T-80 Standard Tank: The Soviet Army’s Last Armored Champion (New Vanguard) states that the Soviets only had about 500 T-80UDs with 350 of them still at Kharkov when the USSR collapsed, and only 410 T-80Us were operational west of the Urals by the end of 1990?

Some Soviet units were still using T-34s in Czechoslovakia in 1968. The Soviets were still exporting them to Vietnam as late as the 1980s (HANDBOOK OF MAJOR FOREIGN WEAPONS SYSTEMS EXPORTED TO THE THIRD WORLD (VOL II) GROUND FORCES EQUIPMENT, CIA Reading Room). HANDBOOK OF MAJOR FOREIGN WEAPONS SYSTEMS EXPORTED TO THE THIRD WORLD (VOL II) GROUND FORCES EQUIPMENT

Does the in-game BMPs have firing ports because motorstrelki not dismounting if they could help it is pretty interesting and I didn't know that. I thought the firing ports were just to suppress entrenched infantry to keep them hosed down before the dismount because the training videos said you couldn't really hit much of anything from the firing ports.

I've seen 1970s US training videos that stated they dismounted around 100 meters away from the target. How true was this in practice?

But I was able to port the T-72AV into Cold War and I got his as a result

They are not new vehicles. The T-80B skin is ported from Cold War. Also historically the T-80B had the same turret armor & glacis armor as the T-72A/M1.

"120mm APDS is considered capable of achieving initial perforation on the upper glacis armor at a maximum range of 1,000 meters and the frontal turret armor at 500 meters." Based on Soviet tests of 120mm apds from Iranian Chieftains provided by Iraq against T-72 Ural.

I've read a variety of inconsistent sources that state GSFG started getting them in 1976, 1977, or as early as 1972. Is there any historical documentation/records that shows when they first started arriving?

The drive has been updated so anyone who gets the link can access.

T-72M1 has been replaced with the T-80B from Cold War. The T-80B was used in the 1st Chechen War so this technically fits in the 90s-2000s Russian forces mod timeframe. The 72Av has been replaced with the 64BV model from Black Sea to serve as a T-80BV. The 72M1 Turms T has been replaced with the 72B3 from Black Sea (This was meant to be a T-72BM Obr 1989 but there's no dedicated model for it). The T-72AV Turms T has been reskined with the BM Bulat from Black Sea to look like a T-80U. The T-90SA has been replaced with the T-90A in Russian service. This is part of a WIP mod called Combat Mission Millennium. The US faction is still very much in development. Next to be worked on: The Syrian infantry are going to be given JMDECC's VSR mod. TTSKO from Black Sea may or may not be added depending on the difficulty to port over. The BMP-1P in game is going to be replaced by the Soviet vehicle model from Cold War. The BMP-2 is going to be replaced with the Soviet vehicle model from Cold War. The BTR-60 is going to be replaced with either the the BTR-80 from Black Sea or 70 from Cold War. The Stryker troop carrier variants are going to be replaced with the M113 from Cold War. The Stryker ATGM variant may or may not be replaced with the M-901 from Cold War. US M16A4s and M4s are going to be reskinned with the Cold War M-16A1 model to serve as a placeholder until a suitable A2 model can be found. The files are on this google drive. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cNgOkzIiO5tK8Jtkt7dM1wG63k_oJs8m