dbsapp
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Posts posted by dbsapp
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1 minute ago, Haiduk said:
Read at last what a difference between SS-division and Waffen der SS. And why during first enlistment 30 000 volunteers come to enlist to division "Galychyna" and come there like on holiday. Two years of Soviet occupation was enough for them to make own choiсe. Like and for citizems of Baltic states, especially Estonians.
So do you have any personal SS insignia?
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6 minutes ago, Haiduk said:
Ok, back to topic
Haha.
Can you elaborate on your respect to SS?
Do you possess and wear any Nazi insignia?
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28 minutes ago, Haiduk said:
Very sad, if you, player of WWII CM titles don't see a difference between SS-divizion and Waffen divizion der SS. No one tribunal didn't condemn "Galychyna" division in warcrimes and all personnel of division found political refuge in Allies countries - UK, Canada, USA. This is our hystory and tragedy of WWII, which we must remember despite all the ambiguity. So I understand Baltic countries, which also honored own Waffen der SS divisions, like a symbol of fight with a Soviet occupation, not a honoring of nazism.
That's pure gold.
That's Ukraine you are defending from evil Russia, ladies and gentlemen. BBC and CNN prudently hide it from you, but here it is, begging for your attention.
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5 minutes ago, CHEqTRO said:
Meh, dont know what to say, it definitively seems to be as entertaining as keep hammering the idea in the echo chamber that you guys have built, that Ukranians are just a collective brainwashed genocidal nation, and that oh poor old Russia is just constantly being martirized by the evil west, and has never done anything wrong, the poor thing. Not as nice as that sense of superiority that has to give to think that everyone who disagrees with you in the west must be because it is a brainwashed shill, thats for sure. Honestly, how envious, who could get to live in such a deluded world, it defenitively seems nice. Maybe I should watch some RT and Sputnik for some time, who knows, it might help a bit.
Ok, I got you. Russia = bad, Ukraine = good, other opinions are wrong and "echo chamber". Thank you for your useful input.
I advise you to watch more RT ot Sputnik indeed, unless they are banned in your country.
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Yeah, it's better to repeat for thousand times more how evil Putin is invading peaceful kingdom of Ukraine in your imagination, that won't contradict mass media BS that they feed you daily.
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5 minutes ago, Holien said:
usual suspects
6 minutes ago, CHEqTRO said:Okay this is just clownish at this point.
I can also put images of Russian soldiers in the Donbass wearing Swastikas and other far right wing stuff (Example: https://twitter.com/jpereztriana/status/1485703957263667209). And of course I can search for more, not only of Donbass soldiers, but also of United Russia MPs, Orthodox clerics and whatever.
I aswell have images of Ukranian civilians being hit by Russian fire during the hot phase of the war (Not going to, but you should know how easily is to find them, if you want to). Thats the thing with war, that people die. Or do you think that in case of Russian "intervention" to ""save"" the """""free"""" people of the Donbass from """"""""""Genocide""""""""", there would not be Ukranian civilian casualties?
Also, I have been keeping up with declarations from some Russian United Party officials and some are quite delightful. I remember one of some bearded dude claiming that they need to cleanse western Ukranians, among other things. And lets not forget Putin quote, that Ukraine, its beauty; is going to be raped.
The whole argument that the Ukranian goverment is in its way to genocide half of its population its so ****ing laughable that it hurts. If anything, russian speaking people in Ukraine have more political liberties in ****ing Ukraine than in ****ing Russia (Good luck getting anyone else apart from the supreme leader (And oh please for the love of god, do not bring the law to make Ukranian the main languaje of the state as genocide. You will have to explain me then why its not genocide to have the russian language as the official one in regions as Kalmykia, Karelia, Daguestan, Komi, Yakutia etc...). Holy **** you also claimed that the shut down of television close to the Kremlin was a sign of Ukranian fascistic behaviour, as if Ukranians should accept to have its agressors having a voice in its ****ing country. I mean, you literally wrote that they were accomodating the country in case Putin cames to power in Ukraine XDDDD. Why in God´s Earth any nation should accept that. Also rich that the russians in general talk about genocide considering what its hapening to the tartars in Crimea.
But you know what, the thing is that at the end of the ****ing day, this is all just ****ing stupid whatabouthism. What doesnt change, is still the fact that one nation is actively trying to undermine the sovereignity of another one, has actually occupied territory of said nation, against all international law; and is threathening with further military action, as well as creating a gigantic future loophole for nuclear proliferation (Budapest memorandum, does ring a bell?). Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, has all the right to decide its allies and economic partners, and there is no moral neither legal justification for Russia to alter this decision. That its the main issue behind this crisis, and what this thread is about. So yeah, stop muddling and derailing the discussion with ****ing propaganda, half-thruts and ****ing whatabouthism, because at this point its close to just a pathetic echo chamber.
PS: Also, the thing with democracies, is that people have the freedom to say or manifest whatever they like. Story time: Here in Spain some months ago some weirdos of the Falange party wnet and took the main street of Madrid to talk about the threat of the "Jews" and all that stupidity. There was a gigantic backlash in the media and wathever. At the end they were like 500 randoms at best which hardly represented even a fraction of our society, but they there were, the spotlight of our media for like a week, parroting their ****ty ideas in one of the main streets of our capital. There are also still a lot of people who venerate Franco, and he still has some cultural places dedicated to his image and regime. Despite all of this, I think that consider my nation as an authoritarian genocidal fascistic hellhole would be quite unreasonable, in any circles away from ignorants and ideologues, of course). I do also wonder. Considering what you are all saying, does the people of Spain deserve destruction and subjugation to a foreign power? Do I, and my family deserve that? If you find that prepostorous, as you ****ing should, then you should start looking back into your argument, because esentially you are claiming that Ukranians do, under a very similar situation)
I'm not going to attempt to read this wall text mess, but I see that you like Twitter.
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4 minutes ago, TheVulture said:
Seems like the Russian strategy now is to back off from a war for the time being and start banging on about "Ukrainians are all fascist neo-Nazis who are going to kill everyone in Donbass" toi try and shift public opinion. I've seen a sudden splurge of "Ukrainians linked to neo-fascists" articles in a variety of places today.
Those sneaky Russians want to divert our attention from innocent Ukraine SS divisions and righteousness ethnic cleansing plans! Isn't it a despicable whataboutism?
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Ukraine President Zelenskiy said in August of 2021:
"I believe that if you live in the temporarily occupied territory of Donbas today and you think that "our way is right," "we are heading to Russia," "we are Russians," then it would be a big mistake to stay in Donbas..."
No wonder they venerate SS.
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3 hours ago, Haiduk said:
Since "compatriots" cried "Putin, enter the troops!", "Donbas is Russia!", since they and Russian proxies have attacked our force structures, seized their weapon and later bagan to receive heavy weapons, ammunition, fuel from Russia, since their "people militia" became proxy-forces under command of Russian generals of 12th Reserve Corps, they are no more "compatriots", they are enemies, elements of Russian hybride war. Ukrainain Constitution, like and Constitutions of any country clearly tells what the state must do in case of territorial integrity threats.
And with whom we should have to negoitiate? With Russian citizen Strelkov, which seized Sloviansk?
So you don't want bring these people back, but you want this territory which would be clean from them, right?
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5 minutes ago, danfrodo said:
Putin is saying to Europe, Ukraine, & the US "I am a military threat and I cannot be trusted in business dealings". Does this is make it more or less likely that NATO countries will increase military spending? That Ukraine will get advanced AT & AA weap;ons from NATO?
If Putin wants to feel more secure, he might start by actually being a good trading partner and nieghbor.
Once again, you mess up miltary propaganda and reality. It's really mad to claim that Putin said it or meant it.
By the way Russia is the 2nd trading partner of Ukraine and the 5th trading partner of EU.
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10 minutes ago, Haiduk said:
And how much nukes were deployed in Baltic countries, bordering with Russia throughout years of their NATO membership?
I don't know. Do you know?
Modern nukes can be deployed in many types of missile warheads or large calibre artillery shells.
There is virtually no way to check it.
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3 minutes ago, danfrodo said:
DBSAPP: Yes, Ukraine, backed by NATO, is going to attack Russia. Do you even hear yourself? I've been avoiding this but that is so F-ing stupid it's unbelievable. How can there be 'discussion' when someone lives in a fantasy world? Are you so brainwashed that you think Ukraine is going to attack Russia -- it's suicide! How can that make sense to anyone?
What other fun, totally ridiculous conspiracy nonsense do you have? This one has gotten kinda stale and I am looking for some entertainment.
Why not to try to achieve your goals, like reclaiming Crimea, if you have "big brother backing"?
The first thing that Turkey did after shooting down Russian plane in Syria was calling for extraordinary NATO council.
That is precisely why NATO rules forbid membership of countries with territorial disputes.
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3 minutes ago, akd said:
US / NATO has already said they are willing to discuss strategic / offensive weapons basing, but they are not willing to trade away sovereignty of other nations and violate NATO charter.
That's great that they are willing to discuss something, I guess, that should be the reason for celebration. The bad thing it doesn't mean anything and doesn't presuppose any obligations on their side.
5 minutes ago, akd said:That’s not how NATO works. If Ukraine wants to drive on Moscow with its massive, terrifying armies (because I guess nuclear weapons don’t exist in this scenario for some reason?), then it would do so alone. There is no NATO army unless collective defense is invoked, and even that comes with a bunch of caveats.
First of all, of course, it's not Ukraine itself that Moscow is nervous about. Ukraine is no more than a tool to harass Russia and to deploy nukes.
Second, real life is much more complicated than any documents.
All the documents, including NATO charter, are subject to interpretation by politicians and media. Who can guarantee that in the event of Ukrainian provocation the Ukrainian actions wouldn't be interpreted as "Russian aggression" (for example, because US President wouldn't like to look weak in the wake of elections)? Do you wanna try it? I doubt it.
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9 minutes ago, CHEqTRO said:
Okay lets go one by one. First of all, isnt this all pre-November 2021? So esentially before the beginning of the "crisis"? How is that relevant? I would like to know how much gas was supplied from December till now, and how it compares to gas flow in previous years during these winter months. I know by a fact that gas reserves are unusually low, and that was after an emergency supply of LNG of the USA, which was reggistered in a marine traffic, so the numbers deffinitively dont add up. I will look up spenditure of western countries to compare, just in case there has been an unusual higher use of gas, but I doubt it
I already tried to explain to you that there are essential 2 main methods of selling gas from Russia to Europe.
First, there are long term contracts. All of them are fulfilled 100%.
Second, spot market. Basically, its a daily buy-sell process. Russia doesn't have any obligations to sell gas to Europe that had not been contracted.
Let's make an example. If you have something, and I want to buy it, there is no obligation on your side to sell it to me.
The topic of "Russia is not selling EU gas" was popular all around 2021 when energy crisis broke out. But as data shows, Russia increased gas supply during this period.
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1 minute ago, akd said:
Because NATO does not, and has not ever, amassed an invasion-postured force on Russia’s border. The standard that neighbors must be incapable of self-defense for Russia to feel secure is absurd.
The danger of NATO enlargement is not in "hundreds of thousands of amassed" troops, but in nukes, settled on the territories of host countries.
Besides, all the national armies of NATO countries should be counted as NATO troops, not only those that came from US.
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21 minutes ago, akd said:
Amassing an invasion force on the border of another country is “we will make B.”
EDIT: and now they are moving out of assembly areas into attack positions, very diplomatically no doubt.
There are confusing reports on numbers of troops and equipment. Most of the alarmist reports originates in the Western press, that, as I suppose, doesn't have direct access to Russian General Stuff data, but mainly take it from "talking points" of their
CIA handlers"governmental sources".If the "amassing troops on the border of another country" is so scary and alarming, what Russia should think of NATO enlargement?
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2 minutes ago, The_Capt said:
So you read Section IV of course and noted that a lot of these points have already been brought up here? It also notes that "...limitations gives US tanks have the advantage on the modern battlefield", so long as we take our training seriously, which makes sense for a TRADOC document.
I actually think this part here is a little slanted. It really does paint Soviet forces as robotic drones driving into kill zones, which I personally think was a wishful thinking myth.
It's not surprising that CMCW and his report have a lot in common.
As for how Soviet commanders employ their forces... Frankly I'm confused, since a) this is absolutely theoretical alternative history topic b) it has even less documentary confirmed basis that tanks performance. At least, tanks exits to he present day and their performance can be measured. That couldn't be said about Soviet commanders.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, there is a certain truth to the assessment of Soviet command quality in this document. It was abyssal in the initial stages of WW2 and absolute awful during first war in Chechnya. On the other hand it showed itself as quite capable during Afghanistan, in Korea and in Vietnam.
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3 minutes ago, Haiduk said:
Ahaha! We are discussing this already five pages. But I can repaat for you. Ultimatim for West - USA must withdraw all troops and military infrastructure from NATO countries, which joined after 1997, no membership for Ukraine and Georgia, security guaranties - else "military&technical counter-measures".
That's not "ultimatum" of course, no matter how many time you call it so. It's a mere discussion of security guarantees and propositions that Moscow made. There is no time limit, and there is no clause "if you don't make A we will make B".
6 minutes ago, Haiduk said:For Ukraine and West (Zakharova several days ago): "de-escalation is possible, if NATO stop support, weapon supply and training of Ukrainan army, if NATO withdraw all servicemen from Ukraine, if NATO take bake all wepon, recently delivered for Ukrainian army.
The full quote: "We are convinced that it is possible to achieve a de-escalation of the situation around Ukraine, which our Western partners talk and write about so much, can be achieved very quickly. To do this, we need to stop deliveries of weapons to Ukraine, recall Western military advisers, instructors from its territory, stop joint exercises of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and countries NATO, as well as to remove all foreign weapons previously delivered to Kiev outside Ukrainian territory".
It's hard to disagree with her. Above mentioned measures will certainly make contribution to de-escalation and pacification of the region. Once again, it's not a demand, not an ultimatum, it's an innocent observation that is absolutely correct.
10 minutes ago, Haiduk said:these TV channels continuosly provide Russian propaganda narratives about "civil war", dividing of Ukraine, when showmens and guests allow themeselve to pour mud on own country, language, culture, these channels must be closed.
That is brilliant and it's better to leave as it is and not to comment.
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21 minutes ago, The_Capt said:
A link to that TRADOC Bulletin would be nice too btw, dates kinda matter.
Sure https://archive.org/details/DTIC_ADA392790
By the way, while googling for this report, I found @John Kettler had already presented this document here.
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42 minutes ago, Haiduk said:
And how, did Russia in previuos years also put ultimatums to USA and NATO on background of maneuvers? Did Russia threaten Ukraine with "consequenses" if we do not agree on Russian conditions around Donbas? Did Russia claim that Ukraine prepares large-scale operation on Donbas? Maybe all these years Putin was preparing to "final showdown" with huge maneuvers. Because this is not too easy to move such numer of trops, maintain logistic, control etc. And now he decided all prepared and he can challenge the West and Ukraine with own bluff. But nobody scared in that time. Maybe not big war, but something must happen.
Russia didn't make any ultimatums to US, NATO or Ukraine. If you are aware of one, please share a link.
What I'm aware of is that in 2015 Ukraine signed Minsk agreements, but Kiev refused to fulfill it to the present day.
As for Ukraine large scale operation in Donbass it is, unfortunately, quite possible.
In my opinion, there are 2 possible outcomes of present day crisis:
1) Good one. Nothing happens. After several month of war hysteria and military propaganda the US will claim that it prevented the war and Joe will get his Peace Nobel Prize.
2) Bad one. Ukraine will launch large scale assault in Donbass and if Russia tries to meddle all Western media will cry about "Russian aggression against aspiring democracy".
Concerning TV shows. As far as I know, young Ukrainian democracy has shut down several Ukrainian TV stations lately, since they were in opposition to Kiev policy.
https://www.ft.com/content/176c0332-b927-465d-9eac-3b2d7eb9706a
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There is no point in comparing T-55 and M60A1.
M60A1 should be compared with T-62, as both tanks were mass produced in 60s and became classical competitors. There is nothing criminal in doing couch expertise ourselves (basically, the main thing we are engaged here), but it's better when it's done by professionals. So, as always, I suggest to refer to real documents.
The evaluation of T-62 and its comparison with M60A1 have been done TRADOC bulletin 10. Strangely enough, experts of US Army didn't mention anything about T-62 being much inferior to M60A1 in terms of spotting abilities, while stating that M60A1 is more effective at beyond 1500 meters ranges. They describe T-62 as very capable tank, in line with CIA\Army report that I had cited before.
In "Vision devices" section they note, that "the T-62 is equipped with vision devices that enable it to fight effectively with all hatches closed and in conditions of reduced visibility".
As we can see the real evaluation is far from claiming the Western tanks enjoy absolute superiority comparing to Soviet "metal junk", which is blind, unsophisticated and crude.
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4 hours ago, CHEqTRO said:
All this war hysteria coming from the USA and NATO, or wherever, could just ****ing be so easily disproven by Russia, as that, hysteria, by just ending its mobilization. Plain and simple. Stop ****ing mobilizing 60 %( that we know) of your army towards Ukraine borders
There is no mobilization in Russia. And no mobilization in Ukraine.
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3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:
Evidence?
1 hour ago, CHEqTRO said:https://mobile.twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1473692008044716033
https://mobile.twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1488804292106592257
https://mobile.twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1483033422914326528
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1491407633370259459
https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1482042466173919236
This is just some of the news that I found in just one particular account about gas flow in the last months. There are a lot more out there and of differents accounts, but I just dont have the time to search for more of them.
In fact in 2021 Russia increased gas supply to Europe.
In January-November 2021 Russia increased exports to Europe to 171.5 billion cubic meters, which is 6.6% (10.6 billion cubic meters) more than in the same period of 2020.
In particular, the company increased gas supplies to Turkey (by 83.7%), Germany (by 16.8%), Italy (by 19.5%), Romania (by 221.8%), Serbia (by 85.8%). %), Bulgaria (by 43.8%), Poland (by 7.5%), Greece (by 12.2%), Slovenia (by 53.9%), Finland (by 9.1%).
The 2021 result was ranked fourth among Gazprom historical records. 15 countries have increased their purchases of Russian pipeline gas.
In January export dropped.
The long term contracts with European countries are fulfilled 100%. Russia fulfills all of her contract obligations.
The main cause of decrease was the spot contracts, e.g. those that conducted on market daily, to which Gazprom has no obligations.
https://www.gazprom.ru/press/news/2021/december/article543987/
https://www.gazprom.ru/press/news/2021/november/article542728/
FORECAST SERIES: Putin’s Likely Course of Action in Ukraine
in Combat Mission Black Sea
Posted
Then you may be interested in this article:
"The OUN, the UPA, and the Nazi Genocide in Ukraine"
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3429340
"The analyses of biographic publications, historical studies, and archival documents show that the majority of the OUN-B and UPA leaders and a very large proportion of members collaborated with Nazi Germany, mainly in the beginning of World War II. A significant percentage of the leaders and members of these organizations served in various police formations. They assisted the Nazi occupational authorities in implementing genocidal policies towards the Jews, Ukrainians, Russians, and Poles by helping to carry out mass executions and create conditions intended for the psychical annihilation of the entire Jewish population and significant numbers of Ukrainians, Russians, and Poles"