Jump to content

BlutUndEhre

Members
  • Posts

    26
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

BlutUndEhre's Achievements

Junior Member

Junior Member (1/3)

4

Reputation

  1. My stance is that if you are an American, when your own border is being invaded daily, who gives a flying f%^& about Ukraine's border? I don't. I dont give a rats ass about Ukraine's border, I care about mine. I got sacrificed for a third world border 55 years ago and it didnt amount to ^$^&. Whether Ukraine lives or dies I don't give a flying $##% because I'll still be breathing$ tomorrow. Maybe I'm a totally immoral POS but whatever, I couldn't care less
  2. I guess my last post didn't go through so here goes again. I am disgusted by the likes of danfrodo and dan/california as they shout for war, war by my countrymen, because I feel that anybody hollering for war that loud obviously has never been to war. I have. I joined the USMC in 1966 and deployed to RVN in 1967. I was assigned to I Corps, 1/9 Marines. I understand sacrifice. I understand death. I do not understand these things when they do not benefit my nation in any way and that's what this amounts to. I joined, and I'll be the first to admit that it was not out of patriotism but out of "I'm gonna get drafted so %$^& it". I DID however think that I should contribute to the larger war against communism. That, unfortunately was BS too. It was all BS. My belief in America and what it "stands for" led to my son being a casualty of my own retarded beliefs as well. He joined in time for the glorious "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and hes now a mind$%#@ too. He was an 0311 in Fallujah and now 18 years after? Yeah, hes $##^ed. Rah rah USA. I'm sure I'll be belittled and talked down to over this but I could give a %^$' less, walk a mile in my shoes, walk a mile in my son's shoes...
  3. I am extremely technologically illiterate and I wasn't trying to quote anyone. I was just trying to post my thoughts and apparently posting to a forum from my phone is WAY too much for this old man. I hope my original thoughts are accessible because it was hell for me to try and post in the first damned place.
  4. The 24-bit format was the problem and your fix above did the trick. I am not the most computer savvy fellow around and I was still able to figure it out with the above instructions so, I am much obliged to you, sir. Now we are on to the bigger problem of me being bollocks at this editor!
  5. Yes, I am arguing that there is absolutely nothing about that rifle that should give it any more effective range than the M1. The Carcano has horrible sights, a creepy trigger pull, and the round it fires is not a good long range round by any measure. By contrast the M1 is inherently very accurate, it has the best iron sights of any battle rifle in history, and it is firing one of the best long range rifle rounds ever designed. In terms of ballistics, there really is no comparison between the 6.5x52mm and the .30-06 (7.62x63mm). Firing the 6.5 out of the 91/41's 27" barrel the 163 grain round develops muzzle velocities between 2,100 and 2,400 fps (I have seen various figures between these two numbers and I have seen some of the discrepancy attributed to poor quality aftermarket ammunition though Italian military ammo was also inconsistent). The ballistic coefficient (essentially how streamlined a bullet is, the higher the number the better the performance) of the bullet is .275. By contrast the M1 with its 24" barrel spits the 152 grain .30 M2 ball out at 2,800 fps and the bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .393. These are very, very different numbers and if you know what they entail then you know from that alone that the Carcano is not the superior long range rifle. What makes a cartridge flat shooting? Easy. High velocity+high ballistic coefficient=flat trajectory. What makes a cartridge shoot flat over distance? High velocity+high ballistic coefficient+heavy bullet. Both of these bullets are heavy enough for 1000m shooting but the Carcano is not aided by having 10 more grains of weight since it doesn't have the velocity to carry the bullet out there quickly in the first place. Here's something else to chew on. The king of long range rifle rounds, the .50 BMG is essentially a scaled up .30-06. .50 M33 ball has a ballistic coefficient of .63, a bullet weight of 661 grains, and fired out of a Barrett M82 has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps. Everyone knows that the .50 rules long range shooting and here you have the numbers to see why. There is no voodoo or black magic concerning what makes a round a good shooter or a dog, it is in these numbers. Now, on to the rifles. The flat shooting nature of the .30-06 combined with the simply outstanding iron sights of the M1 and its inherent accuracy makes for a rifle that is just tough to beat in that era. As I detailed earlier, the standard battlesight zero of the M1 during WWII was 300 yards meaning that because of the round's flat trajectory if you aimed at the center of mass between 0 and 300 yards you are going to hit the target. I also explained my battlesight zero which is to get the rifle shooting 1 1/4" high at 25 yards which will give you consistent hits on man-sized targets out to 400 yards. By comparison the 91/41's adjustable rear sight starts at 300m and anything that is 250m or under is likely to hear the rounds whistling overhead because this is not, as I have stated repeatedly in this thread, a battlesight zero. If you want to hit at 250m and under with a Carcano you are going to need to know hold unders for various ranges or you'll need to remember to flip the sight forward and expose the 200m sight which, lo and behold, actually is a battle sight that will give you consistent hits to about 250 yards, maybe a bit less (we'll clear that up when I set up my range day). I have four M1s total, a 1943 SA, 1945 SA, 1945 M1C, and a 1952 M1D. The 1943 SA is essentially factory new, all numbers match and the barrel is as pristine as a 74 year old military rifle is going to possess and it shoots accordingly. I have fired 2 MOA groups with this rifle at 400 yards and for those of you who don't know what that means I am basically saying that at that range I am grouping the rounds in an 8" circle. For a mass produced semi-automatic service rifle this is excellent accuracy. The 1945 SA is still a fine shooter but it is not the shooter the '43 is and it groups about 3.5 MOA at 400 yards. The M1C has seen some use but has an outstandingly good barrel and is another 2 MOA shooter. The M1D is another closet queen with all matching numbers and an almost pristine barrel and it is the star shooter of the group putting 1.5 MOA groups in at 400 yards. Bear in mind too that this is all with surplus .30 M2 ball, if we wanted to see just how accurate these rifles could be then handloading for each particular rifle would definitely shrink these groups but I'm just not interested in that. As an amateur historian I'm more interested in seeing how the weapons of WWII functioned in their original state. From all the M1s I have shot and been around being shot I would say that an example in good condition is probably going to shoot from 1-5 MOA with most falling in the middle of that spread. 2-3 MOA was probably more representative of the average rifle issued during the war and that is simply superb for a semi-automatic service rifle from the '40s. I honestly do not believe that you can better the iron sights on the M1. They are simple to understand, easy to manipulate, a rear aperture sight is always going to be the best for quick sighting and accurate shooting in my opinion, and you can adjust both elevation and windage 1 MOA per click which is fine enough tuning for a military rifle (1/2 MOA per click with NM sights). For accuracy purposes, I am also a fan of the M1903's ladder sight but the M1's sights are not only accurate for the range, they are robust for the battlefield unlike the 1903's. Now, on the Carcano I only have one example, a 1940 M91/38 in 6.5x52mm and my experience shooting it is very limited. Ammunition is hard to come by and expensive and, frankly, I just don't enjoy shooting the rifle enough to pay for it. Now, obviously in game we are dealing with the 91/41 which has seven more inches of barrel but the caliber and action are the same and the sights similar so many of these observations will hold true. It fires high at 100 yards, definitely not as high as 91/41s are reported to do, but high all the same. It has archaic iron sights of the notch and post variety and they are very chunky making for a poor sight picture in my estimation. My 91/38's rear sight is fixed for 200m but the 91/41, despite starting at the bizarre 300m setting, does have a graduated elevation adjustment, albeit nowhere near the quality of the M1's system. The only way to adjust windage on any of these rifles is to drift the front sight post, something you aren't going to do on the fly. The trigger pull is sloppy and the bolt is only slightly smoother than a Mosin-Nagant's which, to me, is like the gold standard of unpleasant bolts to pull. The loading of the en bloc clip is the only thing about this rifle that I would regard as "smooth" with everything else about it being crude, rough, and bumpy. The one time I fired this rifle with the intention of grouping to find accuracy I managed 2 MOA at 100 yards which, as stated above, is great for an old service rifle. I would imagine that, like most mass produced service rifles, you'll see them fire groups from 1-5 MOA depending on wear, tear, and just individual quirks of different rifles. So accuracy, like most bolt guns with a strong action, is good but the accuracy the design is capable of is severely limited by the junk sights, in the case of the 91/38 via having no elevation adjustment and horrible sight picture and in the case of the 91/41 by having a bizarre first setting that leaves you firing extremely high at most normal engagement ranges and horrible sight picture at anything past 100m. So, there you have it. That's my reasoning on why the Carcano should have no performance advantage at any engagement range.
  6. I used the first result that popped up on Google when I typed in "convert jpg to bmp".
  7. 1. I am basing that on the necessary ingredients for a flat shooting round and the 6.5, as noted in my previous post, lacks all of them. It is slow, heavy for its lack of velocity, and has a relatively poor ballistic coefficient. The laws of physics dictate that it is not going to be a flat shooting round in comparison to most of its WWII counterparts. In 1891? Sure, it stacks up well against many of its contemporaries. In 1941? No, not at all. As for those maximum effective ranges? Those are utterly absurd and if the game engine is taking those numbers into consideration then something needs to change and that should be what we are talking about. Any rifleman with a decent weapon and proper training should be able to hit a man-sized target at 500m under range conditions. Every Marine who passed through recruit training during WWII did just that with a 1903 or from 1942 onwards with an M1. My dad did it with an M14. I did it with an M16A2 though I do it now with an M1 or M1A for fun. So much for that 440 yard maximum effective range, eh? Now, I would say that 500m is the extreme range for effective iron sight shooting at a point target no matter what rifle we are discussing simply because good military rifles will accurately shoot further than what our eyes are capable of discerning without aid, but the game is apparently making some sort of distinction with the Carcano and that is beyond ridiculous. I'm of a mind to make a video shooting these rifles at 600m and we'll see just how effective a range that truly is for a Carcano. I assure you it will be terrible. I would not be confident getting consistent hits at 300m with a Carcano firing at a man-sized target simply because the sights are no good. At 600 I would not guarantee even one hit out of fifty fired because I won't be able to see the target. 2. It is not a gut feeling, it is simply ballistics knowledge garnered from shooting rifles since I was literally old enough to walk. I know what makes a round fire flat, as stated above, and this round lacks the prerequisites. 3. Shooting competitions show what rifles and rounds work well and which do not. If this was an inherently flat shooting, accurate rifle and round we would see Carcanos achieve success in service rifle competitions. They do not. 4. I do not understand the confusion over this term. A battlesight is exactly what you said, the range in which you can strike a man in the vitals without adjusting the sights or your point of aim. The Carcano is not battlesighted for 300m. The rear sight's lowest setting is indeed for 300m but it will not strike a man in the vitals reliably under that range without shifting your point of aim or flipping forward the sight to reveal the 200m notch because it is not battlesighted for that range. On the contrary, the M1 with its elevation knob cranked all the way down should hit center of mass at 100 yards and be battlesighted for 300. If you sight M1s like I do, with the 1 1/4" over at 25 yards you get a battlesight of 400 yards. Despite the fact that I have used the adjustable sights to do this it doesn't change the fact that the weapon is now battlesighted for this range and I will not have to touch the sights or adjust my point of aim to hit solidly at any distance between 0 and 400 yards. "The early model M91 version rifles with the fixed battle sight being at 300 meters was probably not the greatest decision but reflected the trend of that time. With this sight setting the rifles would have a maximum height of trajectory of approximately 15” – 17” at a range of 175 to 200 yards, depending on barrel length." From Dave Emary, "Shooting the 6.5 x 52mm, 7.35 x 51mm Cartridges and the Carcano Rifles". Despite the author using the term "fixed battle sight" it is clear that he is not using it in the same sense that you and I are seeing as how he is telling us that you will fire over a foot high at the given ranges and it is equally apparent that the Carcano is not, in fact, battlesighted for 300m. 5. Again, not a gut feeling at all, it is simply knowing what makes rounds efficient or inefficient. The 7.35x51 lacks the necessary ingredients for long range flat shooting. I gave it credit by saying that at close ranges it probably is a flat shooter, but there is no way that a bullet that light, going that slow, and with such a low ballistic coefficient is going to maintain any decent trajectory at mid-to-long range. 6. Yes, it is better, .275 for the 6.5 to a whopping .285 ballistic coefficient for the 7.35. These are not outstanding numbers, at all. I was never arguing whether my shooting experience has anything to do with CM results. What I am arguing is that if the Carcano having a longer maximum range or enhanced effects at range is coded into the game it is dead wrong, plain and simple. I had not noticed the tendency of Italian infantry to fire at longer ranges but if that indeed is the case, it needs to change because of all of this that I wrote above. These are not opinions, these are facts. The Carcano is not going to match up well with the M1 in any realm, be that combat shooting, 500m shooting, 1000m shooting, or any other test of marksmanship you can devise. The 91 Carcano is a clunker from the bottom to the top and if necessary I will make you a video running these weapons head to head in whatever situations you desire and we will then see that if CM is giving the Carcano a boost at extended ranges that it needs to be changed. Now, as for your closing statement about getting angry, I have not gotten angry at all and I have no idea where you got that from seeing as how I stated specifically that I would like to have a mature discussion and disagree in a manner befitting adults rather than in the infantile way that most internet arguments go. So far, unless you were snarkily insulting me with that last bit (and I'm not certain you weren't), I think we have done just that. Also, I see nothing wrong with any of the subject matter we are discussing because historical facts are relevant to what we see in-game and when in-game results are not congruent with reality we should see that they are changed.
  8. Just a picture of the 'Z' folder opened up to show the Special Editor Overlay file? If so, I'll do that as soon as I get back from running some errands. If this turns out to be the problem how do I fix it? It might be huge, I'll have to check out the numbers later when I have more time but it is going to be a 2000x1500m map, so yeah, probably pretty big, eh?
  9. 1. That website has a curious definition of flat trajectory and superior penetration and, in fact, I want to see their ballistics tests used to support that statement. A 162 grain bullet being pushed at a maximum velocity of 2,400 fps is not going to be a terribly flat shooter. It does not have the mass to hold a flat trajectory over longer ranges and it does not have the muzzle velocity to be firing that heavy of a bullet very flat at closer ranges. That bullet weight and low velocity is also not the recipe for "superior penetration". When you can show me a military loading for the 6.5x52mm that is clocking in past 2,500 fps at the muzzle I will concede the point. Until then, I will continue on emphatically stating that the 6.5x52mm is not a superlative cartridge by any measure. 2. You keep going back to the flatter trajectory but I have yet to see any ballistic chart showing this and my common sense and ballistics knowledge tell me that those numbers make a very flat trajectory for the 6.5 Carcano impossible. I don't care what a C&R company has to say on the issue, I want to see hard data showing this superior flat trajectory and penetration and I have a feeling that I won't. A flat trajectory is incumbent on high velocity, a bullet with a high ballistic coefficient, and bullet weight to hold momentum over distance. The 6.5x52mm Carcano fails in all of these categories. Penetration is incumbent on high velocity and mass. The 6.5x52mm in standard Italian military loading lacks both of these things meaning that it would have to defy the laws of physics to be the round you (or this C&R site) are claiming it to be. 3. My argument has nothing to do with the M1's superior volume of fire, you can use the M1903 if you prefer. I was referring to the M1's far superior muzzle velocity pushing a much more efficient bullet at a flatter trajectory. In terms of ballistics the .30-06 is head and shoulders above the 6.5x52mm Carcano in whatever realm you care to compare them. Go watch the service rifle matches at Camp Perry and, if you really want to find out for yourself the truth of this argument, bring a 6.5 Carcano to compete with the M1 and M1A shooters. It won't go well for you. The .30 M2 ball round is a 152 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .393 being propelled at 2,805 fps through the M1. From the numbers I have managed to drag up for the Carcano rifles we have the 6.5 with a 162 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .275 being propelled at 2,400 fps and the 7.35 with a 128 grain bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .285 being propelled at 2,400 fps. There simply is no comparison to be made here that will favor either of the Carcano's rounds. 4. I'm well aware of what a battlesight zero is as I was in the service for a short time, thank you. The Carcano, for most of its life since 1891, had its sights fixed at a minimum of 200m like just about every other service rifle in the world. After the Abyssinian adventures, it was decided that setting the rear sight to 300m on the M38 would increase hits because infantry would not have to adjust as much for longer engagement ranges. This is not a true 300m battlesight because it will not strike an enemy in the vitals reliably under 300m which is why the 91/41 has a 200m sight setting, as well, that is found by flipping the sight forward. Again, this stuff had nothing to do with the 6.5 Carcano's supposed ballistic efficiency, it was just wonky Italian thinking that was proven wrong in combat conditions. Also, lets consider the case of the M1 again because of my position that it has the finest iron sights of any battle rifle, ever. I have all of mine (minus the M1C and D) set to fire 1 1/4" high at 25 yards. Because of the .30-06's inherently superior ballistic qualities I am battlesighted to 400 yards. With four clicks of the elevation knob from that position I will be putting rounds center of mass at 500 yards and with four clicks back to me I'm once again battlesighted to 400 yards. I bang on steel with my M1s at these ranges regularly and would expect any competent rifleman to be able to do the same with a little familiarization with the rifle. I would not be able to do this reliably with a Carcano, which is why I have never even tried, and it would take more than just a competent rifleman to be a good 500 yard shot with this rifle. 5. The Carcano rifle itself is crap, so even if any of the above vague "facts" that you are quoting to me were verifiable it still wouldn't matter. The sights on a Carcano are rudimentary notch and post sights and they are very clunky. At 300m the front sight post will obscure the target pretty badly and it is just much too wide to afford really accurate shooting at that range and no sort of accuracy at any range past that. If you manage to acquire a man-sized target at that range and keep him perfectly centered you had better hit him the first time because the bolt is as crappy as a Mosin 91/30 and you won't be bolting rounds all silky smooth like you would with a good military bolt like a Mauser or Enfield action. Literally the only thing I like about the rifle is the Mannlicher clip loading system. Mannlicher-style en blocs do load very quickly and smoothly which is always a plus. That being said, that one nice feature does not make up for the facts that as far as WWII service rifles go, the only way I'd feel more underarmed and more combat ineffective would be if I were stuck with an 1886 Lebel. I am no Mosin-Nagant 91/30 fan by any stretch of the imagination but I would feel much more comfortable if armed with the 91/30 over the Carcano in any of its variants. 6. Find me some ballistics on 7.35x51mm Carcano to prove what you are saying. Again, this is a case of numbers not lying and the numbers don't look good for this Italian dog, either. The round is just a 6.5 necked up to 7.35 with an extremely lightweight 128 grain bullet pushing in the 2,400 fps range, again. At close ranges, yes, this is no doubt going to be a flat shooting round but nothing that slow and light is going to hold hitting power or a decent trajectory over range. This is simply physics. I'm new to this forum and I don't want to antagonize anyone or make you think I'm being combative and argumentative, because I'm not. I find that disagreements on the net seem to heat up rather rapidly because it is hard to discern tone through text but I don't want this to go that way, rather I'd prefer that we continue this in a civil manner until we come to an agreement on the facts and, at this point, you are going to need to bring ballistics charts out because all of the numbers I am seeing just don't reflect what you are saying. My firsthand experience shooting these weapons does not reflect what you are saying.
  10. I should have checked to see which Carcano we were discussing, but the point still stands. With only six more inches of barrel we are still talking about relatively anemic muzzle velocities no higher than 2,600 fps, if that. Actually I need to dig out my ballistics books because I believe I'm high balling these numbers and we might actually be talking about a 2,400 fps muzzle velocity for the M91/41 and even lower for the M38. Anyway, those numbers are all just too low on velocity for a small caliber round in the 160 grain range to be able to hold a decent trajectory and have any sort of real hitting power when it does reach the target. The failed 7.35x51mm round was designed to make up for the 6.5's perceived long range shortcomings during Italy's Ethiopian adventures and it was a long range lemon, as well. I just don't agree that the Italians should receive any sort of performance boost at longer ranges via a very pedestrian round and an even more pedestrian rifle.
  11. I have just decided to start delving into map creation and scenario design but I have already hit a roadblock. I snipped my Google Earth photo, converted the jpg into a bmp file, named it "Special Editor Overlay" and stuck it in my "Z" folder. When I enter the editor I see only the CM map, so I press "o" and it simply makes my virtual map look darker until it goes black then it cycles back to its original state. What did I do wrong and if I didn't screw up, why can't I see my map overlay? Help will be much appreciated!
  12. This shouldn't be. The 6.5mm is not a particularly high velocity round, at all, throwing a 160 grain bullet that clocks in at 2,400 fps at the muzzle from a 21" barrel. By comparison the M1 throws the 152 grain M2 ball at 2,800 fps and the Kar98k fires its 198 grain 7.92x57mm s.S. Patrone at 2,500 fps. There is a vast discrepancy in trajectory and hitting power between the M38 Carcano and its contemporaries and it doesn't compare favorably by any measure. Also, while it is battlesighted for 300m as opposed to the common 200 meter/yard battlesight of its contemporaries I would posit that the bullet's ballistics don't allow the rifle to shine at this range and its sights are, in my opinion, quite poor. I am a decent shooter and I can steadily ding a steel silhouette at 500 yards all day with an M1 and, to a lesser degree, with the 98k. I would not expect to achieve these same results with a M38 though I've never hauled mine out and tried it at that range.
  13. I preferred the old infantry behavior when facing small arms fire, particularly where urban fighting is concerned, but the only real "deal breaker" for me is the behavior of infantry under shellfire. If there is arty dropping, no soldier be he conscript or elite, is going to break and run unless he has literally had his mind fractured since the only thing one can do to improve one's chances of survival in a barrage is to go flat and try to burrow. This makes even less sense when you have men in trenches and foxholes giving up the only cover that can save them to go sprinting through a maelstrom of shrapnel. With that being said, I am still enjoying the hell out of CMFI and will just avoid the scenarios with entrenched enemies until the reaction to arty is sorted out.
  14. Recon is by far the most important aspect, but with that being said, many scenarios do not afford you enough time to perform a proper reconnaissance and other times even the most thorough scouting effort will leave key enemy positions hidden until they open up. In a perfect scenario, however, good reconnaissance and effective use of terrain in moving up follow-on units will leave you with your force concentrated on a gap where you can quickly overwhelm the initial defense and get into the backfield where the enemy will be scrambling to reorient on your effort. As for the pertinence of scouting to the topic at hand, I find that this also makes managing large forces of infantry infinitely easier. If I set up my battalion in a proper formation at the beginning and spend the first 15-20 minutes scouting with two-man teams from every squad or every other squad I can move the bulk of my force rapidly and with little micromanagement once I have safe corridors identified leaving the tedious micromanagement to the fun part: Finding, fixing, and destroying the enemy!
×
×
  • Create New...